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Post by laughter on Aug 6, 2019 11:28:28 GMT -5
Well, to be clear about what I mean, I can see an incremental process happening that way for some people, and the more drawn out and gradual it is for them, the less of a discontinuity self-realization will be. Some people talk about drama at the point of realization, and it can happen that way too. From what I've read of Jed in the first book and in this thread, seems he thinks this gradual process is necessary and that there's always a particular pattern to it. Ah. Ok.
For me there seemed to be an implication there of taking one faulty idea at a time and actively destructing it.....when what really happens is that once the major foundational idea of separation have been seen through, the whole sand castle collapses, easily, effortlessly. If/when separation gets seen through, a whole avalanche of false ideas goes with it. No need to 'pulverize' idea by idea. Right, that's realization. Jed is describing a process of not-knowing, which, when deliberate, always involves some measure of self-deception -- on that he's pretty clear. I think that if all three of us were in a live dialog, that we'd all agree that any matter-of-degree of that deliberate not-knowing is only a relative appearance, and my guess is that of the three of us, I'd likely be the only one to argue for it's significance, regardless.  |
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Post by laughter on Aug 6, 2019 11:33:53 GMT -5
Well, if you don't want to come across as a teenager who got jilted by her favorite pop star idol then you may want to make some changes to your blog and how you present yourself.  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2019 11:35:35 GMT -5
Somewhere in one of your posts you said you think we have the same or close opinion of Jed. To clarify: our understanding, comprehension, vision - couldn't be further apart.
You are incorrect in your somewhat uninformed assertion. I have uncovered the identity of someone who's been conning people for quite a number of years. A lot of people benefited, as it saved them $1500 upwards. I do not publish their accounts of how they managed to avoid being duped, but many are grateful.
I have not received a penny for any of it (and it costs money to run the website and to investigate). Neither have I formed any silly 'following', despite the fact that it was absolutely possible. You can ask anyone who has ever communicated with me: I do not teach, do not engage in any teaching in private and have no intent to ever do.
I have not betrayed any of my sources, and the names are known only to me.
I answered every question you have asked of me here - without posturing and pretense.
Now, answer me this.. have I ever patronized you in the way you have just done above? Have I ever told you what you should or should not do? Have I given my opinion on the state of your being?
Do you understand just why 'Jed' does not engage the public?
I wrote a lot on Memento Mori, the best one was probably Dance Macabre. It will take you YEARS to understand the full implications of what 'Jed' means and meant in all of the quotes that you blindly post, without any real comprehension of their meaning. I don't wish you the best. I wish you - being, for as long as you can, and thereafter - nothing. This is the real 'no self'. People do not get it AT ALL. It is not of those 'ideas' that you so wish to discuss. It is Reality of existence.
You misunderstood. I used the word 'selling' metaphorically. You took it literally. I don't doubt your good intentions. I see no reason why. You didn't answer my question. I'll reply in detail, but you have to first answer my initial question: Did you or didn't you eventually sit down with 'Jed', face to face, and have a talk like adults? Excellent question. |
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Post by laughter on Aug 6, 2019 11:36:22 GMT -5
Oh, absolutely. However, IMO, an 'anything goes' attitude is as erroneous as is a long 'dos and donts' list. Jed's general attitude is 'I'm lucid in the dreamstate, nothing is real, nothing of any value, I'm in the funhouse of Maya, Maya's amusement park, so who cares? who gives a f***?' and it's just a mask, a facade. Tano has written about this on her blog. As I've explained to Laffy, SR (the way I use the term) means all existential questions are gone, and with that the aspect of self that was tied to these questions is also gone, and with that aspect gone are perspectives/attitudes/behavior patters that could only come from that (false) aspect of self. Just as an example, Jed's attitudes re: his own death and his memento mori practice strikes me as very very odd for some supposedly SR. The basic personality remains though. So in the end, it's a very individual thing, there's no standard sage behavior in terms of specific behavior but that doesn't mean anything goes either. There is a certain baseline and beyond that anything goes may indeed be the case. But anything goes without a baseline, that's just ego games, IMO. Yeah, I agree.
I've been looking for a particular quote of his I shared a few months ago, but can't seem to find it. Jed specifically states in it that being awake means you no longer care at all or find anything of importance within the dream. Very brown-bearish. I think he's gotten close to that in a few of the quotes you've shared here....specifically the one where he talks about no longer being interested in anything but walking with his dog and the insinuation that this is how it will be for anyone who is enlightened.
Yet another ambiguous quote, and with the get-out-of-jail free card of "genuine". |
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Post by laughter on Aug 6, 2019 11:51:41 GMT -5
Well, if you don't want to come across as a teenager who got jilted by her favorite pop star idol then you may want to make some changes to your blog and how you present yourself. Because that's exactly the impression people will get. And I'm not even a woman. And the fact that this 'Jed' relationship is basically limited to virtual reality only just adds to that impression. To your questions: First off, I don't agree with your 'patronizing' characterization. Secondly, I'm not aware of you having said something similar to me recently but you may have done so in the past. You certainly did talk like that to Laughter just recently. Yes. Yes. This is about you, not Jed. Stop hiding behind 'Jed'. With people like yourself - it always becomes about personals. I shared some facts about 'Jed', because the discussion caught my attention. In my last few responses I also did give my partial opinion on you. One has to meet people on their level and to speak their language. You will get from me exactly to the level of your evolution as is now, and no more. Anything else would be a waste of energy. I am not interested, Reefs.
And leave Laughter out of it. We may not agree on some points, but he has never been anything but gallant and insightful, and I respect that.
Not interested in stepping into this dialog. Like. At all. ..  .. But I did want to remind you that a few years ago I gave you the advice to forget all about this Jed character. |
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Post by laughter on Aug 6, 2019 11:55:36 GMT -5
Right, the way I took it was Jed leading the reader's mind with the ambiguity about what he meant by "peace of mind". Well, I honestly get lost in all the quotes. F*ck quoting other dudes, don't we have our own reasoning, rational Minds? So I have no what 'Jed' meant, because I don't know the rest of the context in which it was said. However... this phrase 'a peace of mind' in its absolute understanding would mean complete absence of thought. Any thought. At all. Which is not possible, don't you think? He-he, 'think'.
Confronting folks with their existential questions is what I took the entire purpose of the first book to be.  |
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Post by laughter on Aug 6, 2019 12:03:29 GMT -5
Yet another ambiguous quote, and with the get-out-of-jail free card of "genuine". L, consumption of second-hand explanations of original quotes, taken out of context and followed by further ungrounded assumptions. In other words.. don;t believe what you read from another's serving. Having said that, I don't support everything 'Jed' says. Being of an American livery of spirituality - his mind also got poisoned by a few insane mental perceptions. That - OR he wanted to sell the books and so had to learn to speak the language that the spiritual community would understand. From what I know about him and his non-spiritual writings... he learnt the language. Just easier to market. But selling doesn't mean he is blind, on the contrary. Just think about it: he's been working everyone to perfection for 20 years, and no one is none the wiser.
The ambiguity for me remains ambiguous, certainly without a live dialog, and even then, even if face-to-face .. I just haven't had much practice at meeting people with the intention of perceiving what existential meaning they're trying to convey. In terms of the deception you suggest, it's not as if the author didn't make that clear from the start. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2019 12:07:00 GMT -5
I agree, posing as the most enlightened dude ever right from the start in the first book comes across as him just having fun slaying holy cows and breaking taboos. But the further you read, the more you'll realize that he actually believes that, especially the parts where he criticizes the various traditions. What's also quite telling is that he doesn't get Zen and koans. That's typical for over-intellectual people. I've seen this on the forum a lot. Well, that got people talking, right?
I want to make it clear here.. 'Jed' is someone who sees things with clarity. In my book, Clarity and seeing the world/ existence/reality/ Atman/ Brahman (insert here for any other Eastern/Western definition of this life) without the blindfold is that elusive state of enlightenment, even though I hate the word with a vengeance, in the same way I hate the word 'God'.
That does not mean 'Jed' hasn't played the survival game with the rest of them. He has - by the act of having written those books, and by continuing to write. He is not interested in fame, and not so much in fortune, but he IS interested in having a comfortable existence where he doesn't have to face hordes of people who are nowhere near his level of comprehension.
They never have been, ever. He is not in the same league of intellectuals as for instance Ken Wilber, whose neuronal connections would upscale the Everest, given the chance. In my book - this wilberism is a handicap, and 'Jed' certainly doesn't suffer from that.
He is clever, somewhat cold, but that hasn't always been that way. It's just that seeing the state of humanity without a blindfold can be pretty heart-breaking, and he got it when still a teen.
In a way - he has created his own cozy cave IN the world, instead of hanging off the pagoda roof somewhere in Asia, or worse, joining the Western spiritual circus.
Cheers.
HeyTano.....Do you actually 'directly know' the author of the Jed books or is this heresay? You were initially pretty convinced you had the real Jed and then found out you didn't. What makes this time different? |
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Post by laughter on Aug 6, 2019 12:16:25 GMT -5
Confronting folks with their existential questions is what I took the entire purpose of the first book to be. deleted at tano's request I go further and say that insight isn't for everyone, and that existentially speaking, insight isn't even the best word to use anymore because of all the cultural baggage that suggests relative knowledge. And that's not to claim any sort of accomplishment or misattribute accomplishment to others. Ain't no such thing as an enlightened peep. It's a myth! |
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Post by laughter on Aug 6, 2019 12:18:41 GMT -5
The ambiguity for me remains ambiguous, certainly without a live dialog, and even then, even if face-to-face .. I just haven't had much practice at meeting people with the intention of perceiving what existential meaning they're trying to convey. In terms of the deception you suggest, it's not as if the author didn't make that clear from the start. Oh the deception goes so much deeper, you have no idea. But. This here on this forum is the wrong place to discuss the deceptive part. Someone I correspond with who has met real 'Jed' face to face... we both agree on that deception part. Anyway, it has been nice to converse, for the sake of old times. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2019 12:35:30 GMT -5
The ambiguity for me remains ambiguous, certainly without a live dialog, and even then, even if face-to-face .. I just haven't had much practice at meeting people with the intention of perceiving what existential meaning they're trying to convey. In terms of the deception you suggest, it's not as if the author didn't make that clear from the start. Oh the deception goes so much deeper, you have no idea. But. This here on this forum is the wrong place to discuss the deceptive part.
Someone I correspond with who has met real 'Jed' face to face... we both agree on that deception part.
Anyway, it has been nice to converse, for the sake of old times.
Ah...okay. Question answered.
Just gotta say, you speak with an authority about "Jed" that suggests you know him intimately, personally, when evidently, you don't.
Did your mistake regarding the Kenneth/forum dude make you wary at all in terms of jumping right back into another "This is Jed McKenna" story?
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 6, 2019 15:09:07 GMT -5
I can perfectly relate to what he writes as well. And it also makes perfect sense. The difference is that Jed thinks it's enlightenment, and I know with absolute certainty that it ain't. In the best case scenario (i.e. if he's a 'walker') it's mind-enlightenment. In the worst case scenario (i.e. if he's just a 'talker') it's one of the worst kind of self-delusion (god-complex). You do? I first read Jed say in the year the first book came out, found it in a Barnes & Noble believe it or not. I very much liked the book, I could relate to much in it, I didn't find all the ND gobbledygook nonsense-speak, it was good down-to-earth nuts and bolts to the grindstone work. Even the Spiritual Autolysis is work (I had essentially done this for years, journaling). So I can see why you would say this. But Jed makes more sense than 95% of what I read here. So yes, by enlightenment he is talking about something different than is meant here, but his version, in my book, is closer to the Truth than what's spouted here... (Not too long after I finished the first book I found and ordered the second book, and then when the 3rd came out I ordered and read it too. I put Jed more in the camp of Richard Rose-ish). Also read TOE, also liked it). |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 6, 2019 15:16:54 GMT -5
In case you are alluding to your experiences in Cambodia, I've been to Cambodia and neighboring countries as well, and that roughly 10 years before you went there. So what you are talking about on your blog sounds familiar. When I saw that picture you took from the road to SHV, I actually had trouble recalling seeing any paved roads at all outside of PP or Angkor Wat at the time. So what you may call harsh conditions has probably already been a vast improvement in comparison to what I encountered there a decade earlier. And this comparison thing is important to keep in mind. If you move from a 1st world country to a 3rd world country without proper preparations (studying history, customs, culture and language), that can be the shock of your life because the contrast is so extreme. The mistake many people make is looking at the living standards they encounter from the perspective of living standards they are used to. What may seem atrocious conditions to the western mind, often is just normal to local minds. Another thing to keep in mind is LOA, i.e. the fact that the people and circumstances you encounter are always a match to and reflect your actual inner state of being. So if someone who is traumatized goes to such a place what kind of people will s/he encounter? And what kind of stories will s/he then tell about that place and what conclusions will s/he draw about that country? Tricky business. Said that, it's probably true that most of the world - technologically speaking - lives in the dark ages. But it is has been my personal experience based on visiting and actually living in such place that it's the other way around in terms of mental attitude. I don't much about Rose, I've read a lot of 'great teacher' reviews about him, but if that quote is indicative of his general perspective, then I'm very disappointed.Some good points here.
And yes, one who is regarding life in general as a 'nightmare' is clearly not awake.
But that's just a POV. 20 people shot to death Saturday, 13 hours later another 9 shot to death in less than 30 seconds, multiple wounded in both cases. And about 6 days previous to that x shot to death at a Garlic Festival. How is that not a nightmare? Jed is honest about crap in the world. You can't say Jed is not awake (or RR). |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2019 15:41:47 GMT -5
Some good points here.
And yes, one who is regarding life in general as a 'nightmare' is clearly not awake.
But that's just a POV. 20 people shot to death Saturday, 13 hours later another 9 shot to death in less than 30 seconds, multiple wounded in both cases. And about 6 days previous to that x shot to death at a Garlic Festival. How is that not a nightmare? Jed is honest about crap in the world. You can't say Jed is not awake (or RR). There's a difference between referencing a particular happening as akin to a nightmare, but quite another to paint life in general as a nightmare.
Life consists of dark and light, downs and ups, horrors and unspeakable beauty.
Being awake means that none of it captures your attention so deeply as to obscure Being. The view from abidance in being illuminates the perfection of all of it....ups/downs....the entire movement....even the surface judgements themselves, which are arisings in consciousness.
One who says 'life is a nightmare,' is not abiding in Being, he's abiding in mind....entrenched and entranced by a personal judgement.
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Post by enigma on Aug 6, 2019 17:38:16 GMT -5
With people like yourself - it always becomes about personals. I shared some facts about 'Jed', because the discussion caught my attention. In my last few responses I also did give my partial opinion on you. One has to meet people on their level and to speak their language. You will get from me exactly to the level of your evolution as is now, and no more. Anything else would be a waste of energy. I am not interested, Reefs.
And leave Laughter out of it. We may not agree on some points, but he has never been anything but gallant and insightful, and I respect that.
Not interested in stepping into this dialog. Like. At all. .. .. But I did want to remind you that a few years ago I gave you the advice to forget all about this Jed character. Jed's fun! |
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