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Post by Reefs on May 25, 2024 22:49:39 GMT -5
@ Tenka / SDP / Maniac I found something interesting... "The Neo-Advaita Recovery Zone"
 I have said it before, some strains of non duality is likened to a cult status where it can be brainwashing, enough so to make some peeps out right liars or delusional. Dangerous as the website points out. I would agree if it turns a peep to believe a reality not lived. I know that many whom are heavily invested in any type of mind set find it difficult to let go of when questioned and put to the test. I have had a few chats with a few other's lately about non duality and it seems the same patterns are present wherever you go. It's really is weird tbh. It does show again that non-duality taught out of context, to the wrong people who are not ready yet, without supervision, can be potentially harmful to mental health. Which is why, I guess, in TAV, there's a long list for what a qualified teacher and a qualified student looks like and why they don't teach non-duality right away, but only after some mental and also physical preparation. As Alan Watts was always quoting the old taoists: "When the wrong man uses the right means, the right means work in the wrong way." |
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Post by tenka on May 26, 2024 6:14:03 GMT -5
I have said it before, some strains of non duality is likened to a cult status where it can be brainwashing, enough so to make some peeps out right liars or delusional. Dangerous as the website points out. I would agree if it turns a peep to believe a reality not lived. I know that many whom are heavily invested in any type of mind set find it difficult to let go of when questioned and put to the test. I have had a few chats with a few other's lately about non duality and it seems the same patterns are present wherever you go. It's really is weird tbh. It does show again that non-duality taught out of context, to the wrong people who are not ready yet, without supervision, can be potentially harmful to mental health. Which is why, I guess, in TAV, there's a long list for what a qualified teacher and a qualified student looks like and why they don't teach non-duality right away, but only after some mental and also physical preparation. As Alan Watts was always quoting the old taoists: "When the wrong man uses the right means, the right means work in the wrong way." As always there needs to be a foundation to support whatever is taught in these regards. From what I have witnessed regarding what other's say and quote on forums about non duality still reflects confusion, opposites and inconsistencies where things don't add up. Over the years we have heard it all haven't we. We have had teachers that make complete u-turns, we have had differences of perspective had from one teacher's first book to their last. We have teachers that say they are not here and charge money to their non existent students and some that collect Rolls Royces like a trophy haul. There doesn't even seem to be some-one-thing that can even be here to use the right means in the wrong way and yet what is said is supposedly mean't to carry some element of truth to some. Peeps it seems kant even understand what constitutes an individual that can experience life. I was going to say life as we know it, butt depending on where you are coming from and self relating with or too there maybe no one present that can experience nor come from anyway pertaining to their perception that can be dreamy or not true based upon the supposed senses we use to navigate this so called world or plane of existence. I saw a snippet of a video a while ago where the non duality teacher was speaking about appearances arising in the dream and I thought here we go again lol |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on May 26, 2024 7:46:30 GMT -5
@ Tenka / SDP / Maniac I found something interesting... "The Neo-Advaita Recovery Zone"
I browsed it, pretty good. Maya is subtle. Maya is cunning. Absolutely. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ It completely interferes with the spiritual path. If you think you are enlightened, you will ignore the lessons, the problems and challenges that need to be addressed to actually progress. Thinking you are enlightened IS NOT Enlightenment. That is a mental imagination. Perhaps it is Maya's most subtle trap. Every human being has negative emotions/qualities within them, even the Great Saints. They are built in to being human, and to some extent we all need a little of them. What differentiates a Saint from an non-saint is not the absence of negative qualities- but the saint is not controlled by them, Anyone who is still controlled by the Gunas is not free! They are still caught in Maya. And they cannot free you. This is why a true Guru is needed- one who has risen above. Because Maya is SUBTLE. Maya is powerful and cunning. Only one who is truly free can lead another to freedom. Anyone can talk about spiritual topics. But on the topic of Liberation, only the one who has completed the path is qualified to speak. And if Liberation is your goal, or at least to reduce suffering, you need to respectfully, yet carefully observe a potential teacher to see how they LIVE, not just how they talk. To determine if they are still caught in the materialistic pull of the Three Gunas. |
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Post by andrew on May 26, 2024 12:35:43 GMT -5
@ Tenka / SDP / Maniac I found something interesting... "The Neo-Advaita Recovery Zone"
I browsed it, pretty good. Maya is subtle. Maya is cunning. Absolutely. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ It completely interferes with the spiritual path. If you think you are enlightened, you will ignore the lessons, the problems and challenges that need to be addressed to actually progress. Thinking you are enlightened IS NOT Enlightenment. That is a mental imagination. Perhaps it is Maya's most subtle trap. Every human being has negative emotions/qualities within them, even the Great Saints. They are built in to being human, and to some extent we all need a little of them. What differentiates a Saint from an non-saint is not the absence of negative qualities- but the saint is not controlled by them, Anyone who is still controlled by the Gunas is not free! They are still caught in Maya. And they cannot free you. This is why a true Guru is needed- one who has risen above. Because Maya is SUBTLE. Maya is powerful and cunning. Only one who is truly free can lead another to freedom. Anyone can talk about spiritual topics. But on the topic of Liberation, only the one who has completed the path is qualified to speak. And if Liberation is your goal, or at least to reduce suffering, you need to respectfully, yet carefully observe a potential teacher to see how they LIVE, not just how they talk. To determine if they are still caught in the materialistic pull of the Three Gunas. I'm saying this with the acknowledgement that...like you...I believe that spiritual growth is a continuous dynamic of existence.....but still, I'd say the idea of 'growth' is maya. Would you agree? |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on May 26, 2024 14:28:02 GMT -5
I browsed it, pretty good. Maya is subtle. Maya is cunning. Absolutely. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ It completely interferes with the spiritual path. If you think you are enlightened, you will ignore the lessons, the problems and challenges that need to be addressed to actually progress. Thinking you are enlightened IS NOT Enlightenment. That is a mental imagination. Perhaps it is Maya's most subtle trap. Every human being has negative emotions/qualities within them, even the Great Saints. They are built in to being human, and to some extent we all need a little of them. What differentiates a Saint from an non-saint is not the absence of negative qualities- but the saint is not controlled by them, Anyone who is still controlled by the Gunas is not free! They are still caught in Maya. And they cannot free you. This is why a true Guru is needed- one who has risen above. Because Maya is SUBTLE. Maya is powerful and cunning. Only one who is truly free can lead another to freedom. Anyone can talk about spiritual topics. But on the topic of Liberation, only the one who has completed the path is qualified to speak. And if Liberation is your goal, or at least to reduce suffering, you need to respectfully, yet carefully observe a potential teacher to see how they LIVE, not just how they talk. To determine if they are still caught in the materialistic pull of the Three Gunas. I'm saying this with the acknowledgement that...like you...I believe that spiritual growth is a continuous dynamic of existence.....but still, I'd say the idea of 'growth' is maya. Would you agree? The idea, yes. Ideas can at best be instructions. Tell that to a tree. To negate spiritual growth in the manifest world, is maya. |
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Post by andrew on May 26, 2024 15:46:32 GMT -5
I'm saying this with the acknowledgement that...like you...I believe that spiritual growth is a continuous dynamic of existence.....but still, I'd say the idea of 'growth' is maya. Would you agree? The idea, yes. Ideas can at best be instructions. Tell that to a tree. To negate spiritual growth in the manifest world, is maya. I'd say the entirety of the manifest world is also maya though....is that also your view? So within the context of the manifest world, I would distinguish between idea of tree, and tree, but in the context of maya, I'd say there's no meaningful difference between the idea of tree, and tree. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on May 26, 2024 16:24:21 GMT -5
The idea, yes. Ideas can at best be instructions. Tell that to a tree. To negate spiritual growth in the manifest world, is maya. So within the context of the manifest world, I would distinguish between idea of tree, and tree, but in the context of maya, I'd say there's no meaningful difference between the idea of tree, and tree. . We can bring in the snake-rope illusion. The snake is maya. The rope is the manifest world, not-an-illusion. But 80% of the cultural world is based on imagination, maya, illusion. |
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Post by andrew on May 26, 2024 16:55:29 GMT -5
I'd say the entirety of the manifest world is also maya though....is that also your view? So within the context of the manifest world, I would distinguish between idea of tree, and tree, but in the context of maya, I'd say there's no meaningful difference between the idea of tree, and tree. . We can bring in the snake-rope illusion. The snake is maya. The rope is the manifest world, not-an-illusion. But 80% of the cultural world is based on imagination, maya, illusion. I've been pushed into some spiritual growth in the last month. Over a period of 20 years, it's fair to say that growth never comes as I imagine or expect. It's always a little surprising, and can even feel like it's in the 'wrong' direction. It's funny like that. So I'm going to say this, on the basis that I know spiritual growth matters to you....I believe there may be a doorway here for growth for you. Do you remember many years ago, Steve used to say, 'put it all out front'? Thoughts, senses, 'objects'/expressions. It's all maya. Or another way to say it would be to say that it's all 'within you'. While I agree with you that in some spiritual contexts, there is a valid distinction to be made between the 'expression' and the 'idea'....and some meditation practices are useful in that they focus on this distinction.....ultimately, if the manifest world collapses, what remains? Surely there's nothing more important for us, as spiritual beings, having a human experience, to grok this, to integrate it, to live it? |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on May 26, 2024 17:22:21 GMT -5
No. We can bring in the snake-rope illusion. The snake is maya. The rope is the manifest world, not-an-illusion. But 80% of the cultural world is based on imagination, maya, illusion. I've been pushed into some spiritual growth in the last month. Over a period of 20 years, it's fair to say that growth never comes as I imagine or expect. It's always a little surprising, and can even feel like it's in the 'wrong' direction. It's funny like that. So I'm going to say this, on the basis that I know spiritual growth matters to you....I believe there may be a doorway here for growth for you. Do you remember many years ago, Steve used to say, 'put it all out front'? Thoughts, senses, 'objects'/expressions. It's all maya. Or another way to say it would be to say that it's all 'within you'. While I agree with you that in some spiritual contexts, there is a valid distinction to be made between the 'expression' and the 'idea'....and some meditation practices are useful in that they focus on this distinction.....ultimately, if the manifest world collapses, what remains? Surely there's nothing more important for us, as spiritual beings, having a human experience, to grok this, to integrate it, to live it? My whole context is different from almost everyone else here. Yes, the manifest world is going to collapse some day, billions of years in the future. But when you die, it's exactly the same. And death could occur any day, any moment. It basically does no one any good to talk to sdp from ~your~ (their) context. From your context, the penny is never going to fall. The Way is not in the future, it's up, vertical, not horizontal. |
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Post by andrew on May 26, 2024 17:30:43 GMT -5
I've been pushed into some spiritual growth in the last month. Over a period of 20 years, it's fair to say that growth never comes as I imagine or expect. It's always a little surprising, and can even feel like it's in the 'wrong' direction. It's funny like that. So I'm going to say this, on the basis that I know spiritual growth matters to you....I believe there may be a doorway here for growth for you. Do you remember many years ago, Steve used to say, 'put it all out front'? Thoughts, senses, 'objects'/expressions. It's all maya. Or another way to say it would be to say that it's all 'within you'. While I agree with you that in some spiritual contexts, there is a valid distinction to be made between the 'expression' and the 'idea'....and some meditation practices are useful in that they focus on this distinction.....ultimately, if the manifest world collapses, what remains? Surely there's nothing more important for us, as spiritual beings, having a human experience, to grok this, to integrate it, to live it? My whole context is different from almost everyone else here. Yes, the manifest world is going to collapse some day, billions of years in the future. But when you die, it's exactly the same. And death could occur any day, any moment. It basically does no one any good to talk to sdp from ~your~ (their) context. From your context, the penny is never going to fall. I think some people understand you better than you may believe. I support practices. I'm a full on advocate in fact. But in terms of realization of 'what remains', any and every practice is a 'double edge sword'. Yes, it removes the maya. BUT, it also perpetuates the maya. In 'Being', there are no practices. At most, in 'Being', we are the practices in action. They are practices without any outcome or interest in growth. Would you agree that 'practice' is a double edge sword? |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on May 26, 2024 21:15:12 GMT -5
My whole context is different from almost everyone else here. Yes, the manifest world is going to collapse some day, billions of years in the future. But when you die, it's exactly the same. And death could occur any day, any moment. It basically does no one any good to talk to sdp from ~your~ (their) context. From your context, the penny is never going to fall. I think some people understand you better than you may believe. I support practices. I'm a full on advocate in fact. But in terms of realization of 'what remains', any and every practice is a 'double edge sword'. Yes, it removes the maya. BUT, it also perpetuates the maya. In 'Being', there are no practices. At most, in 'Being', we are the practices in action. They are practices without any outcome or interest in growth. Would you agree that 'practice' is a double edge sword? There's practice and then there's practice. Anything the "SVP" does (I like my new term, self-avatar), is not really correct practice. True practice isn't done-with thinking, or feeling/emotions or learned bodily actions, and sensations are obviously passive (receptive). Correct practice is already outside/apart-from thinking, outside feeling/emotions, outside bodily actions and outside sensations. Correct practice never just happens, it's the beginning of volition. Everything happens up to the point one learns how to make a conscious effort. A conscious effort is always volitional, never just happens. Everything apart from conscious efforts still just happens, all thoughts, all feelings/emotions, all learned bodily actions and all sensations, all events just happen. We have to become two, that which observes and that which is observed. ~We~, that is, something {else} apart from the self-avatar, observes the functions, thinking, feelings/emotions, bodily actions and sensations. The self-avatar is formed-from thinking, feelings/emotions, and muscle memory. This something {else} apart from all that, is one's True Self. Just a little further. Each center (moving center-learned bodily actions; emotional center; and intellectual center) is divided into 3 parts, a moving part an emotional part and an intellectual part. Conditioning exists in the moving and emotional parts. The intellectual parts of the centers are quiet, silent, unconditioned. I have to take all that into consideration in answering your question. But conscious efforts are about cutting through maya, more simply, imagination, what's imaginary. That means they are about dismantling the self-avatar (not just seeing through it, not just seeing it's imaginary), so correct practice is the very opposite of perpetuating the self-avatar. It's all about energy. Beelzebub's Tales is an allegory about the how and why the inhabitants of earth are ruled by suggestibility, or imagination. It's all about overcoming entropy, called the merciless heropass in BT's (heropass = time). What most people think of as practice, isn't correct practice. Most so-called practice is a dog chasing its tale. |
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Post by andrew on May 26, 2024 21:47:08 GMT -5
I think some people understand you better than you may believe. I support practices. I'm a full on advocate in fact. But in terms of realization of 'what remains', any and every practice is a 'double edge sword'. Yes, it removes the maya. BUT, it also perpetuates the maya. In 'Being', there are no practices. At most, in 'Being', we are the practices in action. They are practices without any outcome or interest in growth. Would you agree that 'practice' is a double edge sword? There's practice and then there's practice. Anything the "SVP" does (I like my new term, self-avatar), is not really correct practice. True practice isn't done-with thinking, or feeling/emotions or learned bodily actions, and sensations are obviously passive (receptive). Correct practice is already outside/apart-from thinking, outside feeling/emotions, outside bodily actions and outside sensations. Correct practice never just happens, it's the beginning of volition. Everything happens up to the point one learns how to make a conscious effort. A conscious effort is always volitional, never just happens. Everything apart from conscious efforts still just happens, all thoughts, all feelings/emotions, all learned bodily actions and all sensations, all events just happen. We have to become two, that which observes and that which is observed. ~We~, that is, something {else} apart from the self-avatar, observes the functions, thinking, feelings/emotions, bodily actions and sensations. The self-avatar is formed-from thinking, feelings/emotions, and muscle memory. This something {else} apart from all that, is one's True Self. Just a little further. Each center (moving center-learned bodily actions; emotional center; and intellectual center) is divided into 3 parts, a moving part an emotional part and an intellectual part. Conditioning exists in the moving and emotional parts. The intellectual parts of the centers are quiet, silent, unconditioned. I have to take all that into consideration in answering your question. But conscious efforts are about cutting through maya, more simply, imagination, what's imaginary. That means they are about dismantling the self-avatar (not just seeing through it, not just seeing it's imaginary). It's all about energy. Beelzebub's Tales is an allegory about the how and why the inhabitants of earth are ruled by suggestibility, or imagination. What most people think of as practice, isn't correct practice. That makes a lot of sense to me....except....I still see the double edge sword. Way I see it, a clever practice will engage with the dualistic matrix is such way, so as to collapse the matrix. But there comes a point in that collapse, when any engagement with the dualistic matrix, perpetuates the matrix. Hopefully you see why that would be the case. Engaging with a flawed system, even with the best intentions and the best practice, can still perpetuate the existence of that system. I'm not saying that you...or anyone, shouldn't practice. Far from it. But I believe it's useful to see the intrinsic limitation. And I won't be surprised if at some point you find yourself in a phase in which it seems like your capacity to practice is diminishing, and it might seem counter to all you have been sincerely and admirably looking to attain. But it won't be a bad thing, it will still be spiritual growth. Just a different phase. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on May 26, 2024 22:58:25 GMT -5
There's practice and then there's practice. Anything the "SVP" does (I like my new term, self-avatar), is not really correct practice. True practice isn't done-with thinking, or feeling/emotions or learned bodily actions, and sensations are obviously passive (receptive). Correct practice is already outside/apart-from thinking, outside feeling/emotions, outside bodily actions and outside sensations. Correct practice never just happens, it's the beginning of volition. Everything happens up to the point one learns how to make a conscious effort. A conscious effort is always volitional, never just happens. Everything apart from conscious efforts still just happens, all thoughts, all feelings/emotions, all learned bodily actions and all sensations, all events just happen. We have to become two, that which observes and that which is observed. ~We~, that is, something {else} apart from the self-avatar, observes the functions, thinking, feelings/emotions, bodily actions and sensations. The self-avatar is formed-from thinking, feelings/emotions, and muscle memory. This something {else} apart from all that, is one's True Self. Just a little further. Each center (moving center-learned bodily actions; emotional center; and intellectual center) is divided into 3 parts, a moving part an emotional part and an intellectual part. Conditioning exists in the moving and emotional parts. The intellectual parts of the centers are quiet, silent, unconditioned. I have to take all that into consideration in answering your question. But conscious efforts are about cutting through maya, more simply, imagination, what's imaginary. That means they are about dismantling the self-avatar (not just seeing through it, not just seeing it's imaginary). It's all about energy. Beelzebub's Tales is an allegory about the how and why the inhabitants of earth are ruled by suggestibility, or imagination. What most people think of as practice, isn't correct practice. That makes a lot of sense to me....except....I still see the double edge sword. Way I see it, a clever practice will engage with the dualistic matrix is such way, so as to collapse the matrix. But there comes a point in that collapse, when any engagement with the dualistic matrix, perpetuates the matrix. Hopefully you see why that would be the case. Engaging with a flawed system, even with the best intentions and the best practice, can still perpetuate the existence of that system. I'm not saying that you...or anyone, shouldn't practice. Far from it. But I believe it's useful to see the intrinsic limitation. And I won't be surprised if at some point you find yourself in a phase in which it seems like your capacity to practice is diminishing, and it might seem counter to all you have been sincerely and admirably looking to attain. But it won't be a bad thing, it will still be spiritual growth. Just a different phase. It's late, I'm tired. I'll try to reply tomorrow. ...Words only go so far.... Up at the top of the hall Outstanding Duke is reading a book. Down at the bottom of the hall Wheelwright Flatten is hewing a wheel. Putting his mallet and chisel aside he goes up and puts a question to Outstanding Duke, saying: I venture to ask, whose words is Your Grace reading? The duke says: The words of a sage. The wheelwright says: Is this sage alive? The duke says: Dead. The wheelwright says: So what My Lord is reading is just the dregs of the once living-spirit of an ancient, no? Outstanding Duke says: When the Lonely One reads a book, who’s the wheelwright to have an opinion! If you can explain yourself, the Lonely One will allow it. If not, you die. Wheelwright Flatten says: Your subject sees it in terms of his work. When hewing a wheel, if you’re too slow it’s easy going but the wheel ends up wobbly. If you’re too fast it’s a hard slog and the ends don’t meet. Neither too slow nor too fast— Your subject feels it in his hands and responds from his heart. He can’t put it into words. There’s a knack to it, in the spaces. He can’t impart it to his son and his son isn’t able to receive it from him, which is why your subject is seventy years old and still making wheels. The ancients, along with what they couldn’t teach, are dead. So what My Lord is reading is just the dregs of the once living-spirit of an ancient, no? |
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Post by Reefs on May 26, 2024 23:36:16 GMT -5
It does show again that non-duality taught out of context, to the wrong people who are not ready yet, without supervision, can be potentially harmful to mental health. Which is why, I guess, in TAV, there's a long list for what a qualified teacher and a qualified student looks like and why they don't teach non-duality right away, but only after some mental and also physical preparation. As Alan Watts was always quoting the old taoists: "When the wrong man uses the right means, the right means work in the wrong way." As always there needs to be a foundation to support whatever is taught in these regards. From what I have witnessed regarding what other's say and quote on forums about non duality still reflects confusion, opposites and inconsistencies where things don't add up. Over the years we have heard it all haven't we. We have had teachers that make complete u-turns, we have had differences of perspective had from one teacher's first book to their last. We have teachers that say they are not here and charge money to their non existent students and some that collect Rolls Royces like a trophy haul. There doesn't even seem to be some-one-thing that can even be here to use the right means in the wrong way and yet what is said is supposedly mean't to carry some element of truth to some. Peeps it seems kant even understand what constitutes an individual that can experience life. I was going to say life as we know it, butt depending on where you are coming from and self relating with or too there maybe no one present that can experience nor come from anyway pertaining to their perception that can be dreamy or not true based upon the supposed senses we use to navigate this so called world or plane of existence. I saw a snippet of a video a while ago where the non duality teacher was speaking about appearances arising in the dream and I thought here we go again lol
Haha! I know what you mean, that's the "youtube neo-advaita" shtick, aka "it's all empty appearances", "it's all just a story", "it's all just dream stuff"...
Which is not wrong per se, but if that's all you've got, then that's just one side of the coin. You gotta talk about what is real and actual also to balance that out or else you are in mind-enlightenment territory.
I have a different take on the Rolls Royce guru issue though. Realization of Self, the Infinite, also means being in alignment with Self, the Infinite. Which means alignment with abundance, any kind of abundance, including material abundance. So when I see teachers like Ramakrishna condemning "women and gold" or other gurus glorifying poverty, that's incongruent with SR and the natural state and way off the mark.
People often believe and spiritual teachers also often teach that you cannot be rich and spiritual at the same time, while ignoring the fact that everything comes from and actually is spirit, including "women and gold".
In Campbell's Hero's Journey model, there is a stage right at the end that he called "Mastery of the two worlds". Which is about living in the physical world while fully grounded in the non-physical world, i.e. being able to live in both worlds at the same time, in fact not actually making that distinction between these two worlds anymore. And so if that's the case, what's the problem with having a whole fleet of Rolls Royce?
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Post by tenka on May 27, 2024 6:36:09 GMT -5
As always there needs to be a foundation to support whatever is taught in these regards. From what I have witnessed regarding what other's say and quote on forums about non duality still reflects confusion, opposites and inconsistencies where things don't add up. Over the years we have heard it all haven't we. We have had teachers that make complete u-turns, we have had differences of perspective had from one teacher's first book to their last. We have teachers that say they are not here and charge money to their non existent students and some that collect Rolls Royces like a trophy haul. There doesn't even seem to be some-one-thing that can even be here to use the right means in the wrong way and yet what is said is supposedly mean't to carry some element of truth to some. Peeps it seems kant even understand what constitutes an individual that can experience life. I was going to say life as we know it, butt depending on where you are coming from and self relating with or too there maybe no one present that can experience nor come from anyway pertaining to their perception that can be dreamy or not true based upon the supposed senses we use to navigate this so called world or plane of existence. I saw a snippet of a video a while ago where the non duality teacher was speaking about appearances arising in the dream and I thought here we go again lol
Haha! I know what you mean, that's the "youtube neo-advaita" shtick, aka "it's all empty appearances", "it's all just a story", "it's all just dream stuff"...
Which is not wrong per se, but if that's all you've got, then that's just one side of the coin. You gotta talk about what is real and actual also to balance that out or else you are in mind-enlightenment territory.
I have a different take on the Rolls Royce guru issue though. Realization of Self, the Infinite, also means being in alignment with Self, the Infinite. Which means alignment with abundance, any kind of abundance, including material abundance. So when I see teachers like Ramakrishna condemning "women and gold" or other gurus glorifying poverty, that's incongruent with SR and the natural state and way off the mark.
People often believe and spiritual teachers also often teach that you cannot be rich and spiritual at the same time, while ignoring the fact that everything comes from and actually is spirit, including "women and gold".
In Campbell's Hero's Journey model, there is a stage right at the end that he called "Mastery of the two worlds". Which is about living in the physical world while fully grounded in the non-physical world, i.e. being able to live in both worlds at the same time, in fact not actually making that distinction between these two worlds anymore. And so if that's the case, what's the problem with having a whole fleet of Rolls Royce?
Yer I know that you think abundance is okay and whatnot, I was just emphasising the diversity in so called teachers and strains of non duality there are and what we have discussed at times in reflection of them. Teachers that are blissful in a lion cloth with a bowl of rice on their lap to multi millionaires that are driven to keep the gravy train going. Some teaching detachment, some about the dream world, some about non identity. Some teachings refer too there isn't anyone here to those that say of course there is. If one is living by example by what they believe to be true then all well and good, but if it doesn't fall in line with another's teachings then all we have are people or imaginary people depending on what float's one's boat coming from a relative perspective don't we. You and Andy are speaking about a teacher at the moment. Going back to the website and the dangers in some strands on non duality then that applies to all non lived teachings, or teachings that are not actually realised and are relative truths based upon what one has concluded. I mean wasn't it Spira that was quoted about not healing oneself. Now that's dangerous if one believes that there is no-one here to get ill in the first place and one is not the body for examples sake. Of course everything as always has to be taken in context for what we are is not the body when there is transcendence of it but while one has integrated their awareness of one within a certain experience then it is very much a part of what you fundamentally are. If one wants to bring a balance to the mind-body-soul aspect or not that's their prerogative but if one believes what someone else believes and flows suit then I guess it's a learning curve if nothing else. |
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