|
|
Post by Reefs on Mar 11, 2019 23:58:52 GMT -5
It is spirituality because it goes beyond the mere intellectual or even emotional. But it is self help in a sense, yes. And it is relevant no matter how enlightened you think you are. After all, the ego is not going anywhere and you are still living in the world and have to deal with the world. A lot of spiritual teachers have realized great truths, but in their day to day life, there's a disconnect, an incoherence. I think Andrew just recently mentioned something like that about Mooji. Psychology is still relevant. Sure, still relevant prior to abiding awakening/SR.
If one is truly awake/SR, and that realization actually is abiding, there is no longer any need to invoke an intermediary when it comes to behavior. The whole idea of making an action plan and then adhering to it, censoring arising interest/impetus to act, putting the brakes on so that you don't wander too far down the wrong garden path, that's the realm of the imaginary person.
When SR is abiding, when the separate volitional person has actually been seen through, fully and completely, the interests that arise are fully aligned with creation. There is no need to invoke an imaginary entity who gets in the midst of all that to guide and direct.
Interest arise and action follows. And all absent a 'someone' who judges or orchestrates.
I can agree about the personal plans and controlling behavior and such but I would like to point out that functioning in society requires an intermediary, an imaginary entity. |
|
|
|
Post by krsnaraja on Mar 12, 2019 0:03:58 GMT -5
It's not about whether or not I'm 'beyond' a particular story of not in this case. Fact is, last time I was here, despite me paying special attention not to address the messenger, only the message, you as mod, severely restricted my responses and threatened to send me packing, supposedly because you saw me contributing to a particular tone here that you didn't want.
But now here you are, me not even being here a day, and you are taking the lead and responding to me in a way that is unnecessarily personal.
I was suprised that as mod you were not only completely ok with Krshna's post content, but that you went ahead and elaborated upon it. It's tough to 'tow the line' on a forum when you don't know where the line is. Just so I know, have you totally abandoned all of them when it comes to moderation?
But, Yes... very much agreed. Lets NOT fall back into old behavior patterns again.
I'm not planning on participating much in discussions anyway. I really don't have the time for that anymore. And I'd prefer if we all could get along somehow and just walk away and agree to disagree when we hit a wall instead of going on crusades. I'd also rather have you all here together instead of splattered over different forums and cross-referencing/attacking each other from these different platforms. It's impossible to moderate. The whole point of letting you back in was to end this kind of mess. As for Krsnaraja I see he is very much interested in a fresh start as is Satch and so am I. If you have a legitimate complaint, then report the post in question. Moderation issues won't be discussed in public anymore because some members here abused this courtesy in the past, they tried to manipulate public opinion in order to influence moderation and prolong their stay. The point of hitting the 'same old same old topic' head on was to not let it gather momentum again. But seeing you replying to posts from several months ago and picking up right where you last left off just didn't bode well from my perspective. I understand that this may have come across as a personal attack and I apologize for that. Point taken. It wasn't intended as such. I'd just rather have it all out in the open right from the beginning instead of taking stealth digs here and there and playing the passive aggressive game for the rest of the year. I think we've all grown out of these little games. I'm also not really clear why you are back again. Maybe you can tell me. We must take counsel together in such wise that no occasion for ill-feeling or discord may arise. This can be attained when every member expresseth with absolute freedom his own opinion and setteth forth his argument. Should anyone oppose, he must on no account feel hurt for not until matters are fully discussed can the right way be revealed. The shining spark of truth cometh forth only after the clash of differing opinions. – Selections from the Writings of Abdu’l-Baha, p. 87. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2019 0:08:40 GMT -5
I'm not planning on participating much in discussions anyway. I really don't have the time for that anymore. And I'd prefer if we all could get along somehow and just walk away and agree to disagree when we hit a wall instead of going on crusades. I'd also rather have you all here together instead of splattered over different forums and cross-referencing/attacking each other from these different platforms. It's impossible to moderate. The whole point of letting you back in was to end this kind of mess. Ok. Just so you know, posting here does not mean I will stop posting on my forum.  I don't. I was interested in clearing up some stuff with a few of ZD's recent posts. His recent posts seem to be indicating a shift in seeing from what he's said in the past...and the conversation Zazeniac was involved in also piqued my interest. For the most part I've been more than happy to have what's pretty much been a one way conversation responding to posts taken from here to respond to them on my forum, but just recently I felt compelled to engage in deeper conversation. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2019 0:11:37 GMT -5
Sure, still relevant prior to abiding awakening/SR.
If one is truly awake/SR, and that realization actually is abiding, there is no longer any need to invoke an intermediary when it comes to behavior. The whole idea of making an action plan and then adhering to it, censoring arising interest/impetus to act, putting the brakes on so that you don't wander too far down the wrong garden path, that's the realm of the imaginary person.
When SR is abiding, when the separate volitional person has actually been seen through, fully and completely, the interests that arise are fully aligned with creation. There is no need to invoke an imaginary entity who gets in the midst of all that to guide and direct.
Interest arise and action follows. And all absent a 'someone' who judges or orchestrates.
I can agree about the personal plans and controlling behavior and such but I would like to point out that functioning in society requires an intermediary, an imaginary entity.Really eh? I say, It's the imagined entity that creates "dys" function. |
|
|
|
Post by satchitananda on Mar 12, 2019 0:15:42 GMT -5
In Truth, there are no causes/catalysts....it's all just one unified movement. It's not so much the practice itself that is important, it's the sincere interest, the sense that there is something 'more' I am not grasping, something I am failing to see, that is. And the person has no control whatsoever whether or not that interest arises. You could say that the choice to practice or not is out of your control because there is no doer but that is of no help. If there's interest because some spaciousness is sensed or glimpsed, because after all we are already complete even though the total recognition of it might be veiled, interest alone won't be enough. It's interest that keeps spirituality groups going forever with conceptual discussions. The interest needs to be put to one side in quietude. |
|
|
|
Post by krsnaraja on Mar 12, 2019 0:17:39 GMT -5
I'm not planning on participating much in discussions anyway. I really don't have the time for that anymore. And I'd prefer if we all could get along somehow and just walk away and agree to disagree when we hit a wall instead of going on crusades. I'd also rather have you all here together instead of splattered over different forums and cross-referencing/attacking each other from these different platforms. It's impossible to moderate. The whole point of letting you back in was to end this kind of mess. Ok. Just so you know, posting here does not mean I will stop posting on my forum. I don't. I was interested in clearing up some stuff with a few of ZD's recent posts. His recent posts seem to be indicating a shift in seeing from what he's said in the past...and the conversation Zazeniac was involved in also piqued my interest. For the most part I've been more than happy to have what's pretty much been a one way conversation responding to posts taken from here to respond to them on my forum, but just recently I felt compelled to engage in deeper conversation. Can Gopal come back to contribute here in this forum? Heard Gopal's now a moderator in the other. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2019 0:19:01 GMT -5
In Truth, there are no causes/catalysts....it's all just one unified movement. It's not so much the practice itself that is important, it's the sincere interest, the sense that there is something 'more' I am not grasping, something I am failing to see, that is. And the person has no control whatsoever whether or not that interest arises. You could say that the choice to practice or not is out of your control because there is no doer but that is of no help. If there's interest because some spaciousness is sensed or glimpsed, because after all we are already complete even though the total recognition of it might be veiled, interest alone won't be enough. It's interest that keeps spirituality groups going forever with conceptual discussions. The interest needs to be put to one side in quietude.Isn't it interest though that has one seeking, practicing and ultimately unveiling, quietude? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2019 0:20:42 GMT -5
Ok. Just so you know, posting here does not mean I will stop posting on my forum. I don't. I was interested in clearing up some stuff with a few of ZD's recent posts. His recent posts seem to be indicating a shift in seeing from what he's said in the past...and the conversation Zazeniac was involved in also piqued my interest. For the most part I've been more than happy to have what's pretty much been a one way conversation responding to posts taken from here to respond to them on my forum, but just recently I felt compelled to engage in deeper conversation. Can Gopal come back to contribute here in this forum? Heard Gopal's now a moderator in the other. He has been here off and on. I think he's pretty busy these days, so we don't see much of him now on the gab forum either.... yeah, he's mod on that forum. |
|
|
|
Post by Reefs on Mar 12, 2019 0:23:43 GMT -5
I'm not planning on participating much in discussions anyway. I really don't have the time for that anymore. And I'd prefer if we all could get along somehow and just walk away and agree to disagree when we hit a wall instead of going on crusades. I'd also rather have you all here together instead of splattered over different forums and cross-referencing/attacking each other from these different platforms. It's impossible to moderate. The whole point of letting you back in was to end this kind of mess. Ok. Just so you know, posting here does not mean I will stop posting on my forum. I don't. I was interested in clearing up some stuff with a few of ZD's recent posts. His recent posts seem to be indicating a shift in seeing from what he's said in the past...and the conversation Zazeniac was involved in also piqued my interest. For the most part I've been more than happy to have what's pretty much been a one way conversation responding to posts taken from here to respond to them on my forum, but just recently I felt compelled to engage in deeper conversation. Well, then I hope you got what you've been looking for. Generally, you are more than welcome to post here and engage in discussions as long as you can refrain from excessive litigation and crusading, tag-teaming and cheer-leading. I do realize that some of this stuff is just part of the social fabric of this forum. But it really got out of hand with you guys last time around. But never mind. This time around I'm going to make it a lot easier for you by staying out of the aliveness/other perceivers debate altogether. So let's see how that goes. Enjoy your stay!  |
|
|
|
Post by Reefs on Mar 12, 2019 0:26:14 GMT -5
I can agree about the personal plans and controlling behavior and such but I would like to point out that functioning in society requires an intermediary, an imaginary entity.Really eh? I say, It's the imagined entity that creates "dys" function. Ha! Interesting. Let me get back to this later. I'm out of time. But just something to ponder: Does this imagined entity have such power? See ya! |
|
|
|
Post by satchitananda on Mar 12, 2019 0:28:25 GMT -5
You could say that the choice to practice or not is out of your control because there is no doer but that is of no help. If there's interest because some spaciousness is sensed or glimpsed, because after all we are already complete even though the total recognition of it might be veiled, interest alone won't be enough. It's interest that keeps spirituality groups going forever with conceptual discussions. The interest needs to be put to one side in quietude.Isn't it interest though that has one seeking, practicing and ultimately unveiling, quietude? We would have to define what we mean by interest. It's a tricky word. The interest can start off as a deeply abstract feeling for something greater than the superficial reality but then the mind gets involved and turns it into a search based around beliefs and concepts. I suppose that's the role of the guru, to steer it back to the simplicity of going back to the source. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2019 0:30:04 GMT -5
Really eh? I say, It's the imagined entity that creates "dys" function. Ha! Interesting. Let me get back to this later. I'm out of time. But just something to ponder: Does this imagined entity have such power? See ya! The imagined entity is not an actual thing....thus, no, 'it' has no creative power.....but delusions obscure the Truth, and when that happens, the waters can get pretty muddy.
I'll turn the question back on you: Does the imagined entity have the power to enact functionality within society?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2019 0:41:52 GMT -5
Isn't it interest though that has one seeking, practicing and ultimately unveiling, quietude? We would have to define what we mean by interest. It's a tricky word. The interest can start off as a deeply abstract feeling for something greater than the superficial reality but then the mind gets involved and turns it into a search based around beliefs and concepts. I suppose that's the role of the guru, to steer it back to the simplicity of going back to the source. My main point is that we cannot separate out the interest/intent to practice from the sense there is something more to see, the sense of seeking and SR itself. It's all part and parcel of one unified movement. It may seem as though practicing is a volitional choice one makes, but if we back up a bit to see that the interest behind that is clearly not volitional, it becomes clear that nor is the practice.
The whole idea that if one is interested in SR, he should engage in practice, seems to miss that bit imo. |
|
|
|
Post by krsnaraja on Mar 12, 2019 0:44:57 GMT -5
Ha! Interesting. Let me get back to this later. I'm out of time. But just something to ponder: Does this imagined entity have such power? See ya! The imagined entity is not an actual thing....thus, no, 'it' has no creative power.....but delusions obscure the Truth, and when that happens, the waters can get pretty muddy.
I'll turn the question back on you: Does the imagined entity have the power to enact functionality within society?
Krsna 's enemies came from his imagination. When they manifested these monsters instilled fear and havoc to the community where Krsna lived. Yet Krsna vanquished them all because he knew how to. There's this saying, "Be careful what you wished for It may come true. And you don't have a plan B." |
|
|
|
Post by satchitananda on Mar 12, 2019 0:55:09 GMT -5
My main point is that we cannot separate out the interest/intent to practice from the sense there is something more to see, the sense of seeking and SR itself. It's all part and parcel of one unified movement. It may seem as though practicing is a volitional choice one makes, but if we back up a bit to see that the interest behind that is clearly not volitional, it becomes clear that nor is the practice. The whole idea that if one is interested in SR, he should engage in practice, seems to miss that bit imo. You are just saying that nothing is volitional and I would agree with that. The next thought that appears in your mind and the intention to practice are completely spontaneous without doership. But that doesn't change the fact that a choice to act appears to you. |
|
