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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2019 21:39:22 GMT -5
Members in this forum should indicate, if it's a good one, their real genders. Non - dualist prefer not. Dualist prefer they would. For example, Figgles. She's a woman. When a man debates with a man. The sane thing to do is let Figgles win. That's my principle. You can't win arguing with a woman even if she's wrong. But is there's such a thing as right? Let women dominate this forum. They are the thunderbolts. Yeah, in such situations A-H usually ask the question: you wanna be right or you wanna feel good? Because sometimes the two don't go together. So you have to make a choice. Most would choose being right over feeling good. And as a result they get stuck in pettiness, mediocrity and eventually negativity. I don't think anyone 'consciously' chooses being right over feeling good. It's just that they are short-sighted.....they go for feeling good immediately rather than a more delayed, longer-lived feeling of contentment that will be, if/when they don't rush in to assert their rightness. Short-sighted-ness and impatience is generally what's in play there. |
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Post by krsnaraja on Mar 11, 2019 21:56:01 GMT -5
Not sure if that is going to comfort you, but from an energy perspective, I don't consider you a woman anyway, hehe.  Clearly though, the one making the sexist statement, does. Adam and Eve of Non-duality Forums (Spiritual Teachers/Spiritual Gab) |
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Post by Reefs on Mar 11, 2019 22:04:45 GMT -5
Okay, thanks. That's basically synonymous with perception (assuming you are not speaking from the SVP perspective). And your definition of 'mind' again? There's difficulty with extracting each term like this and singularly defining it, when ultimately, we are pointing.
But i will say, the phenomenal world that arises within that which I am, the phenomenal world that is experienced, is not synonymous with perception. They are related for sure though.
There is perception/seeing and that's obviously an integral facet of experience, but there is also 'content' involved in experience.
Okay, never mind. I've already got a pretty good idea of how you actually use the terms based on our conversations. And you usually use experiencing and perceiving more or less interchangeably. And that is probably at the root of the misunderstanding. You see, our definitions of the term realization are identical, but our definitions of the term experience (and mind) are not. Which means what I am saying and what you hear me saying are two very different things. And given your definition of the term experience I am not surprised that you guys can't stop mangeling my message (and ZD's). Your personal definitions of 'mind' and 'experience' and 'realization' are also the reason why you guys can't tell the difference between solipsism and non-duality and so you keep conflating them. And that is going to continue unless you either 1) clean up your vocabulary or 2) have that realization that ZD and I and so many sages have been talking about. So far none of this has happened, which means there's no point in talking to you about this stuff. I mean, I went with you over this 2-3 years ago. It was a total waste of time. I did that again last year. It was a total waste of time. And I don't see the point in doing this all over again this year. So in case your reason for coming back here was to continue this conversation, count me out!  |
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Post by Reefs on Mar 11, 2019 22:09:05 GMT -5
Not sure if that is going to comfort you, but from an energy perspective, I don't consider you a woman anyway, hehe. Clearly though, the one making the sexist statement, does. I'm just telling you about my experience of interacting with you. And having been the main focus of your negative attention for so many years now, I have to say that I mostly got to know the aggressive, divisive and unforgiving side of you, which are typical male characteristics. You know, Seth called Jane "Rupert" for a similar reason (even though she clearly was a woman). |
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Post by Reefs on Mar 11, 2019 22:10:51 GMT -5
Yeah, in such situations A-H usually ask the question: you wanna be right or you wanna feel good? Because sometimes the two don't go together. So you have to make a choice. Most would choose being right over feeling good. And as a result they get stuck in pettiness, mediocrity and eventually negativity. I don't think anyone 'consciously' chooses being right over feeling good. It's just that they are short-sighted.....they go for feeling good immediately rather than a more delayed, longer-lived feeling of contentment that will be, if/when they don't rush in to assert their rightness. Short-sighted-ness and impatience is generally what's in play there. The choice is rarely made during an argument. The choice is made long before there is an argument. When the argument happens, it's usually too late, the momentum will just have its way with you. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2019 22:39:26 GMT -5
I don't think anyone 'consciously' chooses being right over feeling good. It's just that they are short-sighted.....they go for feeling good immediately rather than a more delayed, longer-lived feeling of contentment that will be, if/when they don't rush in to assert their rightness. Short-sighted-ness and impatience is generally what's in play there. The choice is rarely made during an argument. The choice is made long before there is an argument. When the argument happens, it's usually too late, the momentum will just have its way with you. Is there actually a choice/decision even made in that case? I say no. It's all about knee-jerk reactions, which means an absence of conscious awareness as to what's happening. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2019 22:58:44 GMT -5
Clearly though, the one making the sexist statement, does. I'm just telling you about my experience of interacting with you. And having been the main focus of your negative attention for so many years now, I have to say that I mostly got to know the aggressive, divisive and unforgiving side of you, which are typical male characteristics. You know, Seth called Jane "Rupert" for a similar reason (even though she clearly was a woman). Are you still mod here..?
"Please make sure you post within the appropriate category. Questioning the beliefs of other members is part of the give and take of this forum. However, provoking other members or antagonising members to gain a response is not acceptable. Continuous behaviour of this sort will result in your account being permanently banned. People are mirrors. It's easy to see the mote in the other person's eye and miss the beam in yours. Before you post a response, ask your self why you are doing it - is it ego or the spirit of friendship?Using obscene or threatening language towards another member could result in your account being banned. Remember that typing in ALL CAPS is generally considered shouting and is not appreciated. If another member irritates you to no end, use the "ignore" feature found in a member's profile and you won't have to read their mindless drivel." |
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Post by Reefs on Mar 11, 2019 23:06:19 GMT -5
The choice is rarely made during an argument. The choice is made long before there is an argument. When the argument happens, it's usually too late, the momentum will just have its way with you. Is there actually a choice/decision even made in that case? I say no. It's all about knee-jerk reactions, which means an absence of conscious awareness as to what's happening. I am speaking from the personal perspective, of course. And the choice that has been made long before the argument is not to not have an argument or feel good instead of being right. The choice is much less specific, it's more like "I'm going to enjoy my day" or "I just sit here in the warm sun for a while" or something like that. The way I understand it, the point of the "you wanna be right or you wanna feel good?" question is make you follow your inner guidance instead of your thoughts. Because your thoughts can take you down all kinds of roads you don't actually wanna go down. There are a lot of things that, from an intellectual perspective, are absolutely worth pursuing and even worth arguing or fighting for/against like let's say someone insults you or creates baseless rumors about you. But from the Inner Being perspective, the alignment perspective, it's exactly that kind of stuff that keeps you out of alignment and keeps you from thriving on a broader scale. And so from that perspective, it is not worth it. So you could say, in a more corny way, it's the question of listening to your head or to your heart. There are a lot of things, interesting things, intellectually stimulating things, trending things, that can take you down a rather dark path. I noticed that with social media. I personally don't do social media (except this forum) but I've seen it with others who do a lot of it and usually they tend to lose their way in clutter, they follow the most stimulating thoughts not realizing where this leads them emotionally. Another example would be the endless food-fighting on this forum in the past. I don't think anyone involved actually intended it to end that way, but it did anyway, because no one was really paying attention. |
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Post by Reefs on Mar 11, 2019 23:10:07 GMT -5
I'm just telling you about my experience of interacting with you. And having been the main focus of your negative attention for so many years now, I have to say that I mostly got to know the aggressive, divisive and unforgiving side of you, which are typical male characteristics. You know, Seth called Jane "Rupert" for a similar reason (even though she clearly was a woman). Are you still mod here..? "Please make sure you post within the appropriate category. Questioning the beliefs of other members is part of the give and take of this forum. However, provoking other members or antagonising members to gain a response is not acceptable. Continuous behaviour of this sort will result in your account being permanently banned. People are mirrors. It's easy to see the mote in the other person's eye and miss the beam in yours. Before you post a response, ask your self why you are doing it - is it ego or the spirit of friendship?Using obscene or threatening language towards another member could result in your account being banned. Remember that typing in ALL CAPS is generally considered shouting and is not appreciated. If another member irritates you to no end, use the "ignore" feature found in a member's profile and you won't have to read their mindless drivel." You are feeling offended? Then I apologize. I thought you are way above and beyond any story including sex. I'm just hoping we can clear some old karma and this time truly have a fresh start, clean slate etc. I just don't want us to fall back into old behavior patterns again. Again, my apologies. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2019 23:17:56 GMT -5
Is there actually a choice/decision even made in that case? I say no. It's all about knee-jerk reactions, which means an absence of conscious awareness as to what's happening. I am speaking from the personal perspective, of course. And the choice that has been made long before the argument is not to not have an argument or feel good instead of being right. The choice is much less specific, it's more like "I'm going to enjoy my day" or "I just sit here in the warm sun for a while" or something like that. The way I understand it, the point of the "you wanna be right or you wanna feel good?" question is make you follow your inner guidance instead of your thoughts. Because your thoughts can take you down all kinds of roads you don't actually wanna go down. There are a lot of things that, from an intellectual perspective, are absolutely worth pursuing and even worth arguing or fighting for/against like let's say someone insults you or creates baseless rumors about you. But from the Inner Being perspective, the alignment perspective, it's exactly that kind of stuff that keeps you out of alignment and keeps you from thriving on a broader scale. And so from that perspective, it is not worth it. So you could say, in a more corny way, it's the question of listening to your head or to your heart. There are a lot of things, interesting things, intellectually stimulating things, trending things, that can take you down a rather dark path. I noticed that with social media. I personally don't do social media (except this forum) but I've seen it with others who do a lot of it and usually they tend to lose their way in clutter, they follow the most stimulating thoughts not realizing where this leads them emotionally. Another example would be the endless food-fighting on this forum in the past. I don't think anyone involved actually intended it to end that way, but it did anyway, because no one was really paying attention. Ok. What you're talking here is psychology, self help, not spirituality. |
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Post by Reefs on Mar 11, 2019 23:25:14 GMT -5
I am speaking from the personal perspective, of course. And the choice that has been made long before the argument is not to not have an argument or feel good instead of being right. The choice is much less specific, it's more like "I'm going to enjoy my day" or "I just sit here in the warm sun for a while" or something like that. The way I understand it, the point of the "you wanna be right or you wanna feel good?" question is make you follow your inner guidance instead of your thoughts. Because your thoughts can take you down all kinds of roads you don't actually wanna go down. There are a lot of things that, from an intellectual perspective, are absolutely worth pursuing and even worth arguing or fighting for/against like let's say someone insults you or creates baseless rumors about you. But from the Inner Being perspective, the alignment perspective, it's exactly that kind of stuff that keeps you out of alignment and keeps you from thriving on a broader scale. And so from that perspective, it is not worth it. So you could say, in a more corny way, it's the question of listening to your head or to your heart. There are a lot of things, interesting things, intellectually stimulating things, trending things, that can take you down a rather dark path. I noticed that with social media. I personally don't do social media (except this forum) but I've seen it with others who do a lot of it and usually they tend to lose their way in clutter, they follow the most stimulating thoughts not realizing where this leads them emotionally. Another example would be the endless food-fighting on this forum in the past. I don't think anyone involved actually intended it to end that way, but it did anyway, because no one was really paying attention. Ok. What you're talking here is psychology, self help, not spirituality. It is spirituality because it goes beyond the mere intellectual or even emotional. But it is self help in a sense, yes. And it is relevant no matter how enlightened you think you are. After all, the ego is not going anywhere and you are still living in the world and have to deal with the world. A lot of spiritual teachers have realized great truths, but in their day to day life, there's a disconnect, an incoherence. I think Andrew just recently mentioned something like that about Mooji. Psychology is still relevant. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2019 23:35:27 GMT -5
Are you still mod here..? "Please make sure you post within the appropriate category. Questioning the beliefs of other members is part of the give and take of this forum. However, provoking other members or antagonising members to gain a response is not acceptable. Continuous behaviour of this sort will result in your account being permanently banned. People are mirrors. It's easy to see the mote in the other person's eye and miss the beam in yours. Before you post a response, ask your self why you are doing it - is it ego or the spirit of friendship?Using obscene or threatening language towards another member could result in your account being banned. Remember that typing in ALL CAPS is generally considered shouting and is not appreciated. If another member irritates you to no end, use the "ignore" feature found in a member's profile and you won't have to read their mindless drivel." You are feeling offended? Then I apologize. I thought you are way above and beyond any story including sex. I'm just hoping we can clear some old karma and this time truly have a fresh start, clean slate etc. I just don't want us to fall back into old behavior patterns again. Again, my apologies. It's not about whether or not I'm 'beyond' a particular story of not in this case. Fact is, last time I was here, despite me paying special attention not to address the messenger, only the message, you as mod, severely restricted my responses and threatened to send me packing, supposedly because you saw me contributing to a particular tone here that you didn't want.
But now here you are, me not even being here a day, and you are taking the lead and responding to me in a way that is unnecessarily personal.
I was suprised that as mod you were not only completely ok with Krshna's post content, but that you went ahead and elaborated upon it. It's tough to 'tow the line' on a forum when you don't know where the line is. Just so I know, have you totally abandoned all of them when it comes to moderation?
But, Yes... very much agreed. Lets NOT fall back into old behavior patterns again.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2019 23:44:13 GMT -5
Ok. What you're talking here is psychology, self help, not spirituality. It is spirituality because it goes beyond the mere intellectual or even emotional. But it is self help in a sense, yes. And it is relevant no matter how enlightened you think you are. After all, the ego is not going anywhere and you are still living in the world and have to deal with the world. A lot of spiritual teachers have realized great truths, but in their day to day life, there's a disconnect, an incoherence. I think Andrew just recently mentioned something like that about Mooji. Psychology is still relevant. Sure, still relevant prior to abiding awakening/SR.
If one is truly awake/SR, and that realization actually is abiding, there is no longer any need to invoke an intermediary when it comes to behavior. The whole idea of making an action plan and then adhering to it, censoring arising interest/impetus to act, putting the brakes on so that you don't wander too far down the wrong garden path, that's the realm of the imaginary person.
When SR is abiding, when the separate volitional person has actually been seen through, fully and completely, the interests that arise are fully aligned with creation. There is no need to invoke an imaginary entity who gets in the midst of all that to guide and direct.
Interest arise and action follows. And all absent a 'someone' who judges or orchestrates.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2019 23:55:48 GMT -5
You'll never know! All it takes is a little grace after all, hehe. As you know I recommend practicing your way to SR, or more specifically to the point where Grace notices you. I say, if the interest/impetus to practice is arising, then there is nothing to do but go along...however, it would be just as true to say that practice causes/leads to grace/gateless gate, eventual enlightenment, as it would be to say the moment of enlightenment 'caused' the interest to practice.
In Truth, there are no causes/catalysts....it's all just one unified movement. It's not so much the practice itself that is important, it's the sincere interest, the sense that there is something 'more' I am not grasping, something I am failing to see, that is. And the person has no control whatsoever whether or not that interest arises.
I'd say that very interest, if it is sincere, is what makes for 'auspiciousness,' but not because interest 'causes' enlightenment. Rather, it's indicative of a greater movement. Thus, we could say sincere interest is 'correlated' with enlightenment.
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Post by Reefs on Mar 11, 2019 23:56:23 GMT -5
You are feeling offended? Then I apologize. I thought you are way above and beyond any story including sex. I'm just hoping we can clear some old karma and this time truly have a fresh start, clean slate etc. I just don't want us to fall back into old behavior patterns again. Again, my apologies. It's not about whether or not I'm 'beyond' a particular story of not in this case. Fact is, last time I was here, despite me paying special attention not to address the messenger, only the message, you as mod, severely restricted my responses and threatened to send me packing, supposedly because you saw me contributing to a particular tone here that you didn't want.
But now here you are, me not even being here a day, and you are taking the lead and responding to me in a way that is unnecessarily personal.
I was suprised that as mod you were not only completely ok with Krshna's post content, but that you went ahead and elaborated upon it. It's tough to 'tow the line' on a forum when you don't know where the line is. Just so I know, have you totally abandoned all of them when it comes to moderation?
But, Yes... very much agreed. Lets NOT fall back into old behavior patterns again.
I'm not planning on participating much in discussions anyway. I really don't have the time for that anymore. And I'd prefer if we all could get along somehow and just walk away and agree to disagree when we hit a wall instead of going on crusades. I'd also rather have you all here together instead of splattered over different forums and cross-referencing/attacking each other from these different platforms. It's impossible to moderate. The whole point of letting you back in was to end this kind of mess. As for Krsnaraja I see he is very much interested in a fresh start as is Satch and so am I. If you have a legitimate complaint, then report the post in question. Moderation issues won't be discussed in public anymore because some members here abused this courtesy in the past, they tried to manipulate public opinion in order to influence moderation and prolong their stay. The point of hitting the 'same old same old topic' head on was to not let it gather momentum again. But seeing you replying to posts from several months ago and picking up right where you last left off just didn't bode well from my perspective. I understand that this may have come across as a personal attack and I apologize for that. Point taken. It wasn't intended as such. I'd just rather have it all out in the open right from the beginning instead of taking stealth digs here and there and playing the passive aggressive game for the rest of the year. I think we've all grown out of these little games. I'm also not really clear why you are back again. Maybe you can tell me. |
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