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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2019 12:38:18 GMT -5
The idea of aliveness is taken from dualistic experience; animated matter or 'the feeling of aliveness' as opposed to 'dead matter' or feeling disconnected from life. I'm going to put my head in the noose and suggest that THIS is neither alive nor dead until it touches the mind with a dream of life and death. Yeah, the death of the universe is only ever a poignant experience 'in' mind. Just as a dead universe can only ever be an experience in mind, so too is an 'alive' universe. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2019 12:56:21 GMT -5
Kissing a frog's ass won't turn him into a prince. Go ahead ban me.  Seems you've got an issue with Enigma....? 
Interesting 'cause I've been reading along here for a while now and I don't actually see where he's been even remotely hard on you...is there something specific he's said?
Barely know E or you. Nothing personal. Just am skeptical of spontaneous ND and he's quite good at presenting that viewpoint, so I take shots at him once in awhile. Laughy has similar views and I took shots at him when he was around.. Maybe this one went too far, I admit it. I'll stop. |
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Post by zendancer on Mar 11, 2019 13:25:30 GMT -5
There is the experience of aliveness. Yes.
And....The 'experience-er' is also 'experienced.' When that's seen through, there is just experience happening, absent a thing/who/what that experiences.
Yes. We could also say "there's just whatever is happening." |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2019 13:29:20 GMT -5
Seems you've got an issue with Enigma....?
Interesting 'cause I've been reading along here for a while now and I don't actually see where he's been even remotely hard on you...is there something specific he's said?
Barely know E or you. Nothing personal. Just am skeptical of spontaneous ND and he's quite good at presenting that viewpoint, so I take shots at him once in awhile. Laughy has similar views and I took shots at him when he was around.. Maybe this one went too far, I admit it. I'll stop. It's not for me to say if it went too far. Was mostly just curious. I know first hand that sometimes when someone's message seemingly rubs you the wrong way, it's because it actually IS deep down, hitting home...but the fact of that hitting home, necessarily means that mind has to move over, and mind doesn't like moving over.
E and I used to argue like crazy....I actually agreed with much of what he said and thus had a fundamental respect for him. But we diverged when it came to the idea of paths, causes, what I now refer to as 'bridges.' I kept trying to find a way to bridge experience with realization...and I didn't do it overtly....but I kept trying to find a sort of back-door way to establish bridges as "Truth."
I've now come to see that there actually are none...and as that was really crystalizing for me, it was E's words, his unwavering message that kept coming back to me. So if it seems like I'm now 'kissing his butt' you're likely not entirely wrong...I AM grateful....but it's also very cool when all this DOES finally crystalize and you're finally seeing what another way saying all along....there's excitement and enthusiasm wrapped up in it all too.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2019 13:32:02 GMT -5
Yes.
And....The 'experience-er' is also 'experienced.' When that's seen through, there is just experience happening, absent a thing/who/what that experiences.
Yes. We could also say "there's just whatever is happening." Sure. And I think it's also important to see that Awareness is fundamental to ALL happenings. Awareness is not itself, "a happening." It's what all happenings arise within/to." |
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Post by Reefs on Mar 11, 2019 19:35:18 GMT -5
I feel compelled to give it another go here. Am hoping enough time has passed for things to be different. My hope is that my challenges won't be taken as personal attack nor as a means to disrupt the forum....anyhoo...here goes nothin... Figgles v5.0? |
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Post by Reefs on Mar 11, 2019 19:41:27 GMT -5
When I initially read your post, I totally agreed. What the heck is he doing here...?... as obviously talk about 'non-duality' really rubs Krsnaraja the wrong way.
What I've observed is that that irritation, anger, towards the idea of non-duality, when it is coupled with a pull to talk about it, to engage those who speak about oneness/no separation, etc, usually indicates that there's a glimmer of seeing what it's really about...and the anger is just mind fighting to assert itself where it can see, it's going to be exempt from going. It's as though ego gets a glimpse that its entering into dangerous territory and it rises up to defend itself. ....but that pull also has the glimmer of freedom beneath it. It's an interesting phenomena indeed
I asked myself, "Why am I here? What drives me to say something on non - duality? Even it pisses-off those who have extensive knowledge of what non - duality is. " My point is that I have been in this forum for sometime. I am praying if by stroke of luck a thunderbolt hits (not literally ) me and suddenly I become enlightened with non - duality. By engaging in debates. That whatever comes out from the interaction is the wished for thunderbolt. Well, sad to say, I haven't experienced a shocking thing yet. This non - experience is what keeps me going. I always thought you were here to preach Krsnaism and convert everyone into Krsna devotees. Who'd have thunk!  |
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Post by Reefs on Mar 11, 2019 19:51:16 GMT -5
Yeah, the death of the universe is only ever a poignant experience 'in' mind. Just as a dead universe can only ever be an experience in mind, so too is an 'alive' universe. What was your definition of ‘experience’ again? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2019 21:00:02 GMT -5
Just as a dead universe can only ever be an experience in mind, so too is an 'alive' universe. What was your definition of ‘experience’ again? All phenomena/phenomenal that arises to/within that which I am. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2019 21:05:09 GMT -5
You'll never know! All it takes is a little grace after all, hehe. Members in this forum should indicate, if it's a good one, their real genders. Non - dualist prefer not. Dualist prefer they would. For example, Figgles. She's a woman. When a man debates with a woman. The sane thing to do is let Figgles win. That's my principle. You can't win arguing with a woman even if she's wrong. But is there's such a thing as right? Let women dominate this forum. They are the thunderbolts. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2019 21:06:32 GMT -5
Members in this forum should indicate, if it's a good one, their real genders. Non - dualist prefer not. Dualist prefer they would. For example, Figgles. She's a woman. When a man debates with a man. The sane thing to do is let Figgles win. That's my principle. You can't win arguing with a woman even if she's wrong. But is there's such a thing as right? Let women dominate this forum. They are the thunderbolts. in such situations A-H usually ask the question: you wanna be right or you wanna feel good? Because sometimes the two don't go together. So you have to make a choice. Most would choose being right over feeling good. And as a result they get stuck in pettiness, mediocrity and eventually negativity. "yeah".....  ?? |
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Post by Reefs on Mar 11, 2019 21:14:34 GMT -5
What was your definition of ‘experience’ again? All phenomena/phenomenal that arises to/within that which I am. Okay, thanks. That's basically synonymous with perception (assuming you are not speaking from the SVP perspective). And your definition of 'mind' again? |
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Post by Reefs on Mar 11, 2019 21:29:51 GMT -5
Yeah, in such situations A-H usually ask the question: you wanna be right or you wanna feel good? Because sometimes the two don't go together. So you have to make a choice. Most would choose being right over feeling good. And as a result they get stuck in pettiness, mediocrity and eventually negativity. "yeah"..... ?? Not sure if that is going to comfort you, but from an energy perspective, I don't consider you a woman anyway, hehe. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2019 21:30:45 GMT -5
All phenomena/phenomenal that arises to/within that which I am. Okay, thanks. That's basically synonymous with perception (assuming you are not speaking from the SVP perspective). And your definition of 'mind' again? There's difficulty with extracting each term like this and singularly defining it, when ultimately, we are pointing.
But i will say, the phenomenal world that arises within that which I am, the phenomenal world that is experienced, is not synonymous with perception. They are related for sure though.
There is perception/seeing and that's obviously an integral facet of experience, but there is also 'content' involved in experience.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2019 21:32:20 GMT -5
"yeah"..... ?? Not sure if that is going to comfort you, but from an energy perspective, I don't consider you a woman anyway, hehe. Clearly though, the one making the sexist statement, does. |
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