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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2022 3:24:35 GMT -5
Do you have any questions about the source of consciousness? Not to me, personally perhaps, but, generally speaking? Please know, that you are yoked to nothing, there are no bars, there is no chain, no prison. I like your post. You raise several questions that deserve serious reflection. So, I will just address them one at a time.
All I know - for certain and without doubt - is that consciousness is not generated by the brain. Where it comes from is a mystery to me. Of course I am curious about the source of consciousness, its very nature, and why it exists. Consciousness is me. It is what I am.
Frankly, I don't like being alive, being conscious just to ponder incessantly about the predicament of human existence. I have been pacing like a tiger in a circus cage, back and forth, back and forth, without rest pondering. Krishnamurti is fascinating, not his worldly life which was a mess, but his intimations of an "otherness", that timeless state that I had a glimpse of myself on a boat when that circular rainbow appeared at sea.
Yes, I am yoked to "the body". In the face of ignorance about the nature of reality, the body is the cause of human misery.
Your self wasn't there. Your ordinary every day mind was inactive. The perceiver of the circular rainbow was, and always will be the whole of reality itself. You can't own that moment. Though you can give it it's rightful ownership. |
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2022 3:26:01 GMT -5
I respectfully question what you have asserted here. Krishnamurti said that he “felt protected”. I don’t have the citation to back this up but I remember reading that in one of his books. Anyway, it resonated with me because I do feel “protected”. I may be deluded but let me explain why I have felt this way ever since I began this quest to inquire into the “Krishnamurti teaching”. (I put that in quotes because I do not regard Krishnamurti as a teacher. We are all one humanity in communion.) I welcome any criticism you may have to set me straight. We are inquiring together and “two heads” are better than one. About ten years ago, I was 35 when I came across a used Krishnamurti Penguine reader at a sidewalk bookstand in New York’s West Village. It was so arresting that I hunted out everything about the guy, his foundations, and his schools. It led me to a life-shattering decision to give up my professional career in corporate America. There was no way I could keep on working at my job if I wanted to find out the truth in what Krishnamurti was talking about. My work projects ran 15 months out with new ones coming on line without a break. I was living in time that could never come to an end. I had to quit.
Giving up a stable income was scary. Breaking personal relationships was emotionally wrenching. Folks in my life were convinced I had gone nuts over some Indian guru. It happens, right? Looking back, I can see that my new path in life had lifted me out of the common herd. I have no family, no wife to deal with, no children to raise, no burdens to bear. Ukraine is happening. Now that I am free, I am watching it – like a squirrel in my garden - without any movement of thought. I feel protected. But the you that feels protected is temporary, ephemeral, bound for death in the end. Like all of us.  Isn't it a relief that non-existence is always a very real option. |
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Post by laughter on May 19, 2022 4:47:47 GMT -5
But the you that feels protected is temporary, ephemeral, bound for death in the end. Like all of us. Isn't it a relief that non-existence is always a very real option. I can imagine how some people might come to that state of mind and emotion, but it's a misconception, of course. As the Christians would put it, it's a feeling of being cut off from God's love. |
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2022 13:43:37 GMT -5
Isn't it a relief that non-existence is always a very real option. I can imagine how some people might come to that state of mind and emotion, but it's a misconception, of course. As the Christians would put it, it's a feeling of being cut off from God's love. |
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Post by laughter on May 19, 2022 15:44:49 GMT -5
I can imagine how some people might come to that state of mind and emotion, but it's a misconception, of course. As the Christians would put it, it's a feeling of being cut off from God's love. God ain't everyones cup 'o tea.  |
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2022 16:31:36 GMT -5
God ain't everyones cup 'o tea.   |
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Post by laughter on May 19, 2022 19:26:24 GMT -5
God ain't everyones cup 'o tea. They empty it of Caesar's wine to make room for the blood of Christ.  |
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2022 20:52:35 GMT -5
Everyone believes that consciousness is personal and it comes out from the human brain. Those who don't think so are you, and guys like Ramana and Ramakrishna. But you are one of those guys aren't you because you go on to say that you reject the belief that the brain gives rise to consciousness. So you're in the Ramana group if I understand correctly. You think consciousness can switch from personal mode to eternal timeless nature while still living a mortal life yoked to the body. I didn't say that. What is this switching? The finite and the infinite coexist simultaneously. As I already pointed out the answers to your seeking do not lie in intellectual discussion and understanding. It has to do with the discrimination between unchanging awareness and the experience of changing phenomena. Consciousness or as I prefer to call it awareness, which is non-individuated, is the unchanging field from which experiences arise and those experiences have a beginning and an end and they are continually changing. They are impermanent by nature whereas this background awareness, the movie screen if you like upon which the experience of Life, the movie is projected, is non-changing. It has no boundaries or qualities like that which you perceive in any changing experience. To discriminate between the movie screen and the movie is the seeking. This seeking is non-intellectual. Burn Krishnamurti's books immediately because they will lead you down a rabbit hole of conceptual thinking. Can you drop all your beliefs and concepts? Can you do that completely and utterly and just attend to and notice the source of everything you know without thinking anything? Ask yourself, what do you know right now in this moment. What is the sum totality contained within the sentience of this one moment? It sounds very grand but you will find out that what you know right now is not much. It never is. And it's exactly the same in every single moment. What changes is that there will be a different single thought in that moment, no matter that it's a complex idea about your life's purpose or it's a thought about what you're going to have for lunch. It's neither here nor there. In both instances you remain simply and effortlessly as you are, as that which is. There is no intellectual ultimate Truth. |
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Post by sree on May 19, 2022 23:07:37 GMT -5
Everyone believes that consciousness is personal and it comes out from the human brain. Those who don't think so are you, and guys like Ramana and Ramakrishna. But you are one of those guys aren't you because you go on to say that you reject the belief that the brain gives rise to consciousness. So you're in the Ramana group if I understand correctly. I don't know who Ramana was/is and assume that he was/is a devotee of Brahma like you are. You talked about Ramana, Ramakrishna and Advaita, did you not? You guys probably believe that consciousness doesn't come from the brain but come from Brahma.
I don't know where consciousness comes from. I just know that it doesn't come from the brain as determined by western science. If you don't act right, you will get your head zapped with electricity the way they did it to Jack Nicholson in "One flew over the cuckoo's nest" movie.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2022 23:20:28 GMT -5
But you are one of those guys aren't you because you go on to say that you reject the belief that the brain gives rise to consciousness. So you're in the Ramana group if I understand correctly. I don't know who Ramana was/is and assume that he was/is a devotee of Brahma like you are. You talked about Ramana, Ramakrishna and Advaita, did you not? You guys probably believe that consciousness doesn't come from the brain but come from Brahma.
I don't know where consciousness comes from. I just know that it doesn't come from the brain as determined by western science. If you don't act right, you will get your head zapped with electricity the way they did it to Jack Nicholson in "One flew over the cuckoo's nest" movie.
Why mention Ramana if you don't know who he was? Who is Brahma?. Never heard of him. I'm having trouble with your logic and its conclusions.. First you say the guys don't believe that consciousness comes from the brain. You seem to have the same belief so you agree with Ramana , but you don't know him which begs the question, why mention him? Then you say the guys think that consciousness comes from Brahma. What does that mean? You seem to be very articulate but at the same time highly illogical and prone to making assumptions about what you think others think and believe. Is that the basis for honestly wanting to find answers? |
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2022 9:05:18 GMT -5
[...]
And if I were the President of the US, I would and could diffuse evil and restore peace not only in Ukraine but worldwide immediately without a war machine.
[...] Oh dear. Haha. |
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Post by sree on May 20, 2022 9:17:47 GMT -5
I don't know who Ramana was/is and assume that he was/is a devotee of Brahma like you are. You talked about Ramana, Ramakrishna and Advaita, did you not? You guys probably believe that consciousness doesn't come from the brain but come from Brahma.
I don't know where consciousness comes from. I just know that it doesn't come from the brain as determined by western science. If you don't act right, you will get your head zapped with electricity the way they did it to Jack Nicholson in "One flew over the cuckoo's nest" movie.
Why mention Ramana if you don't know who he was? Who is Brahma?. Never heard of him. I'm having trouble with your logic and its conclusions.. First you say the guys don't believe that consciousness comes from the brain. You seem to have the same belief so you agree with Ramana , but you don't know him which begs the question, why mention him? Then you say the guys think that consciousness comes from Brahma. What does that mean? You seem to be very articulate but at the same time highly illogical and prone to making assumptions about what you think others think and believe. Is that the basis for honestly wanting to find answers? I think in simple terms. When you cite Ramana, Ramakrishna, Advaita, I place you in the camp of believers of Hindu philosophy/spirituality. Although Krishnamurti rejected all spiritual teachings, his own teaching is still highly regarded by Buddhist and Hindu scholars/practitioners of the two faiths. You talked about eternal timeless nature. This is a fancy, way of perceiving Brahma in the west, much like trading the form of an old bearded sadhu in loin cloth with a clean-shaven, handsome Hollywood-type in a sharp Armani suit. Let's not quibble and play games, satch.
Guys who don't believe consciousness comes from the brain are into a form of spirituality that is divorced from worldly life in which the mortal body resides. We can debate this if you insist you are not in this crowd.
I don't believe that consciousness comes from the brain because it is a ridiculous conclusion. I can tell you why it is a silly idea if you want to discuss this.
Does consciousness have an eternal timeless nature as you have claimed? Consciousness is screwed up now. So, why are you bringing up a situation from left field?
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2022 9:38:25 GMT -5
Why mention Ramana if you don't know who he was? Who is Brahma?. Never heard of him. I'm having trouble with your logic and its conclusions.. First you say the guys don't believe that consciousness comes from the brain. You seem to have the same belief so you agree with Ramana , but you don't know him which begs the question, why mention him? Then you say the guys think that consciousness comes from Brahma. What does that mean? You seem to be very articulate but at the same time highly illogical and prone to making assumptions about what you think others think and believe. Is that the basis for honestly wanting to find answers? I think in simple terms. When you cite Ramana, Ramakrishna, Advaita, I place you in the camp of believers of Hindu philosophy/spirituality. Although Krishnamurti rejected all spiritual teachings, his own teaching is still highly regarded by Buddhist and Hindu scholars/practitioners of the two faiths. You talked about eternal timeless nature. This is a fancy, way of perceiving Brahma in the west, much like trading the form of an old bearded sadhu in loin cloth with a clean-shaven, handsome Hollywood-type in a sharp Armani suit. Let's not quibble and play games, satch.
Guys who don't believe consciousness comes from the brain are into a form of spirituality that is divorced from worldly life in which the mortal body resides. We can debate this if you insist you are not in this crowd.
I don't believe that consciousness comes from the brain because it is a ridiculous conclusion. I can tell you why it is a silly idea if you want to discuss this.
Does consciousness have an eternal timeless nature as you have claimed? Consciousness is screwed up now. So, why are you bringing up a situation from left field? What is there to discuss? I sgree with you that consciousness coming from the brain is a ridiculous conclusion. That is also the conclusion of Advaita Vedanta. It seems that everyone agrees with you. |
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Post by sree on May 20, 2022 11:52:47 GMT -5
What is there to discuss? I sgree with you that consciousness coming from the brain is a ridiculous conclusion. That is also the conclusion of Advaita Vedanta. It seems that everyone agrees with you. What's there to discuss?! Just because consciousness has nothing to do with the brain opens a can of worms. How do you account for the fact that I neither know nor have access to your secret thoughts? Have you played the card game of poker where no one knows what cards the others at the table are holding?
Taking the brain out of the equation changes our conception of humanity as a collective of individual human beings to what?
Have you told anyone at your place of work that the consciousness does not come from his or her brain? Have you told your wife that? How about your boss, the guy you report to at work?
Chatting with folks in a spiritual forum gives you license to make any statement about the consciousness. Out there in the real world, you would be given a one way trip to the mad house.
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Post by sree on May 20, 2022 12:02:07 GMT -5
[...]
And if I were the President of the US, I would and could diffuse evil and restore peace not only in Ukraine but worldwide immediately without a war machine.
[...] Oh dear. Haha.
Haha. I did realize that I had put my foot in my mouth back then. "The President of the US" is the vortex of human confusion and strife. Fire can't put out fire.
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