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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2018 14:53:23 GMT -5
Everyone on the forum lives as though ________________ is tangible and physical, so no one steps out in front of a bus, but people who think of ____________________as an appearance, only, would say that this is all just part of the dream. .. Why do you think that peeps live as though this world is physical and yet say that this physicalness is just an empty appearance with no real substance . Reefs has suggested as have I that the empty / dream experience that can't be trusted as Truthy and such likes is not a realization at all . What are your thoughts? Reefs followed my lead on this in regards to kindness and I don't think there has been any takers as yet . Why be kind to an appearance in regards to saying what one truly believes if one believes the appearance to be just that .Because it's not actually known, and the experience is very much of a sentient being who seems to have feelings. To go against that, would take some effort, lots of minding, and would just be really strange.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2018 14:59:14 GMT -5
.. haha, good for you, but this still proves a point that even though you were not yourself so to speak you still had the understanding that what you had to give away would help other people . Mother teresa was selfless in her actions but still retained an understanding that what she was doing had real value .One can only do this when there is a self identified aspect in expression, it's still ego I would say, but ego to some involves more of a self importance attachment than anything else . This isn't my point in making tbh it's more to do with having values still in regards to living life post realization, it's not a reflection of empty appearances that pertain to not being of any real substance . Even the masters that teach others, the intensity at times when niz goes into a rage at his students is because he see's his students as something that will benefit from his teachings rather than just speaking to an empty dream character appearance . These are the things that don't make sense to me, why bother to teach a dream character if one really believes that is what they are . There is something not quite right with the teachers that entertain these philosophies but carry on as if the opposite is the reality . Mother Theresa very likely was just another faker. In her letters to a priest she admitted that most of the time she felt godforsaken. The outward hyperactivity probably just was a coping mechanism. Osho called her a charlatan and suggested once that it was time for her to jump into a lake. I've also heard some reports from western doctors who observed the situation at her hospitals which they called atrocious. So lack of self-esteem or self-hate shouldn't be mistaken for selflessness.Excellent point. So many who do so called charitable acts, are really just trying to make themselves feel better...and often in trying to do so, they end up leaving the one whom they are offering the charitable act to, feeling less empowered than before the do-gooder showed up.
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Post by explorer on Oct 20, 2018 16:10:18 GMT -5
Oh my goodness, a little charity please.
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Post by laughter on Oct 20, 2018 16:39:39 GMT -5
Yes, how can the seeking really be over if there is any question such as the ones Adya' poses here? But you see, even then though, even after all the questions really are gone, and even after inner peace comes to stay for good, life goes on. I think the deeper challenge he offers here is .. "how are you going to do that "?? Or, we might think of it as "how's that workin' out for ya'?? " Yes, but I think Adya's question in the quote was rather rhetorical, and it was directed primarily toward people who are still seeking. It seems to me that Adya, like most non-duality sages, is saying: 1. It's possible for the Infinite to directly apprehend Itself 2. It's possible for the Infinite to realize that SVP is an illusion and that the Infinite is all there is 3. Seeking usually comes to an end when SR occurs, because at that point the real seeker is discovered to have been the Infinite 4. Realizations continue to occur after SR, and there is no end to the depth of what may be realized, internalized, understood, and manifested following SR Somewhere Adya talks about appearances, but he talks about them in the context of asking people, "What do appearances appear to?" Life is like a floating opera, but what is it that watches the opera? This can be known directly and conclusively by the only watcher there is. With you 1000% on 1,2 and 4. These notions are cosmic, and confounding to intellect and emotional approaches to them. Also though, I think Adya's getting at the day-to-day, down-to-earth, nuts-and-bolts of life as it's lived and as it goes on after the seeking and self-inquiry are over. So I'd add that past this point life is lived very differently from most people. There's no longer any set of principals or morals operating either consciously or subconsciously as life flows, at least in terms of how they might help form moment-to-moment reactions and day-to-day living and decision making. All idealized notions of life based on cultural expectations eventually fade away, and there's no chance of substantial internal conflict. In addition (and while I can imagine this last point happening either before or after self-realization), any notions about a conceptual meaning of life or an idealized afterlife are seen for what they are. (late edit proofread, "1, 2 and 4" )
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Post by laughter on Oct 20, 2018 16:44:40 GMT -5
Yes, how can the seeking really be over if there is any question such as the ones Adya' poses here? But you see, even then though, even after all the questions really are gone, and even after inner peace comes to stay for good, life goes on. I think the deeper challenge he offers here is .. "how are you going to do that "?? Or, we might think of it as "how's that workin' out for ya'?? " The very question “how am I going to do that?” — if taken seriously, if it causes the least bit of mental distress — is a sign of prior conditioning re-arising. Those old habits have to be progressively worn away striking again and again against the hard rock of reality. When the mind is absolutely calm in its depths, life takes care of itself. Whatever happens, happens. No effort needed to “live in oneness.” Quite the opposite. Even these habits don’t “need” to be worn away by any effort. They don’t actually trap anyone. But they simply do get worn away by realization, automatically and inevitably. Certainly, distress at contemplating any question like that means that inquiry isn't done, although even after the inquiry is done, the conditioned body/mind remains.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2018 16:48:47 GMT -5
Oh my goodness, a little charity please. I've nothing against charity so long as the one offering it is crystal clear that it's not really about the other's need to receive something, but rather, his need to offer something.
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Post by laughter on Oct 20, 2018 17:24:21 GMT -5
It's an impassioned and profound pointing, but he both calls for people to wake up and challenges them to deepen into that awakening after. It works, it's fine, but if someone deepens into a unrealized life thinking that the search is over, they've missed an opportunity. Ok, there's at least two ways to interpret that: 1) thinking you're SR when you're not, in which case your point might be valid 2) someone who steps off the spiritual treadmill, and you're suggesting they should get back on The validity of the point in the first case seems to me to be unassailable. Seems to me to play out like a fake fair catch that noone believes. As far as the 2nd possibility goes, seeking doesn't have to be a treadmill. Someone can see the spiritual circus for what it is and drop out of it before self-inquiry is over, and they can do this either self-honestly -- as in "I didn't find what I was looking for but I'm no longer looking", or not self-honestly -- as in (something along the lines of) "I didn't find what I was looking for because self-inquiry is bullsh!t and a waste of time .. so, done with that, thanks anyway."
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Post by zendancer on Oct 20, 2018 23:37:57 GMT -5
Oh my goodness, a little charity please. I've nothing against charity so long as the one offering it is crystal clear that it's not really about the other's need to receive something, but rather, his need to offer something. Real charity involves no thought of oneself.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2018 0:53:26 GMT -5
I've nothing against charity so long as the one offering it is crystal clear that it's not really about the other's need to receive something, but rather, his need to offer something. Real charity involves no thought of oneself. ...or 'other.'
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Post by lolly on Oct 21, 2018 1:36:54 GMT -5
I think charity is based on self-awareness even though it pertains to others. Then you would know if the act is out of interest in pleasure, out of obligation, or for the sake of reputation etc, having awareness of motive.
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Post by tenka on Oct 21, 2018 4:18:03 GMT -5
.. Why do you think that peeps live as though this world is physical and yet say that this physicalness is just an empty appearance with no real substance . Reefs has suggested as have I that the empty / dream experience that can't be trusted as Truthy and such likes is not a realization at all . What are your thoughts? Reefs followed my lead on this in regards to kindness and I don't think there has been any takers as yet . Why be kind to an appearance in regards to saying what one truly believes if one believes the appearance to be just that .Because it's not actually known, and the experience is very much of a sentient being who seems to have feelings. To go against that, would take some effort, lots of minding, and would just be really strange. Some peeps believe this world reality is of no real substance and appearances are just that . So taking that on board I am wondering why peeps who have that belief carry on not mirroring their beliefs . This is online as said before regarding non duality teachers, teaching who/m or what eggsactly? You can't have a belief in appearances lacking any real substance and then say it's not known if these appearances are conscious / emotional beings . One has to have a foundation that reflects their beliefs in what constitutes an appearance which is what this whole thing is about .
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Post by laughter on Oct 21, 2018 7:28:21 GMT -5
I think charity is based on self-awareness even though it pertains to others. Then you would know if the act is out of interest in pleasure, out of obligation, or for the sake of reputation etc, having awareness of motive. Yeah, it can happen spontaneously. And the meditation helps with this, and can be revealing as it's happening.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2018 8:08:47 GMT -5
Advaita as described by many could be the perfect philosophical sanctuary for a psychopath.
"I'm enlightened, I don't follow social norms. I am beyond them."
I am reminded of Raskolnikov without the guilt of course.
That's why Zen(Soto) is better. There are no conclusions about reality that could be true. Whether life is real or a dream is irrelevant. "Chop wood, carry water. Sit."
BTW, are you sure Adya's quote wasn't from a used car sales brochure where you swapped certain key words? Like "mint Ford Falcon" with "awakening" and such.
My cheek hurts. Tongue tip has grown sharper with age.
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Post by lolly on Oct 21, 2018 8:22:32 GMT -5
I think charity is based on self-awareness even though it pertains to others. Then you would know if the act is out of interest in pleasure, out of obligation, or for the sake of reputation etc, having awareness of motive. Yeah, it can happen spontaneously. And the meditation helps with this, and can be revealing as it's happening. It's typically spontaneous if someone needs something and you just give with some sort of empathy or something, and motive is a pretty subtle thing not always associated with a personal reason, like, kindness is more like a characteristic of a kindhearted personality than anything intellectually reasoned, but as a general rule, I'd say personal expectations, like getting good kamma returns or receiving gratitude, for examples, is a little off track.
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Post by laughter on Oct 21, 2018 9:29:42 GMT -5
Yeah, it can happen spontaneously. And the meditation helps with this, and can be revealing as it's happening. It's typically spontaneous if someone needs something and you just give with some sort of empathy or something, and motive is a pretty subtle thing not always associated with a personal reason, like, kindness is more like a characteristic of a kindhearted personality than anything intellectually reasoned, but as a general rule, I'd say personal expectations, like getting good kamma returns or receiving gratitude, for examples, is a little off track. Definitely. In the past I'd sort of mentally/emotionally pat myself on the back. It was a sort of self-righteous feeling. I remember noticing an act as it was happening, after I started the meditation, and thinking, "nah, just THIS, THISING" .. and even that thought, of course, is one step into a split-mind. People peeps.
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