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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2023 5:37:51 GMT -5
She displays an inclination towards fault-finding, which contradicts her fundamental principle of 'no blaming'. By attributing blame with statements like "You did this, you did that, so you are wrong," it is highly likely that she encounters similar situations in her personal life as well. Sometimes I think these spiritual principles can be a bit idealistic. If she is 'blaming' a bit, as part of exploring her passion, I don't see it as a big problem. Equally, those that are 'blamed' might understandably prefer not to engage with it. However, the main idea is that it contradicts her fundamental principle of 'no blame'. In fact, this principle belongs to Enigma, and she has embraced it. I have never witnessed Enigma becoming angry and he remains committed to his teachings, whereas Figgles, who has adopted his teachings, does not
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2023 7:33:02 GMT -5
Sometimes I think these spiritual principles can be a bit idealistic. If she is 'blaming' a bit, as part of exploring her passion, I don't see it as a big problem. Equally, those that are 'blamed' might understandably prefer not to engage with it. However, the main idea is that it contradicts her fundamental principle of 'no blame'. In fact, this principle belongs to Enigma, and she has embraced it. I have never witnessed Enigma becoming angry and he remains committed to his teachings, whereas Figgles, who has adopted her teachings, does not I think Enigma was the dude who (on Figgles' site) told me that 5G networks controlled our brains and that vaccines are bioweapons. (Apparently the weakest ever invented.) If your spirituality gives you paranoid delusions about your fellow humans, then what good is it?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2023 20:01:51 GMT -5
However, the main idea is that it contradicts her fundamental principle of 'no blame'. In fact, this principle belongs to Enigma, and she has embraced it. I have never witnessed Enigma becoming angry and he remains committed to his teachings, whereas Figgles, who has adopted her teachings, does not I think Enigma was the dude who (on Figgles' site) told me that 5G networks controlled our brains and that vaccines are bioweapons. (Apparently the weakest ever invented.) If your spirituality gives you paranoid delusions about your fellow humans, then what good is it? I did not follow him much when he started talking about vaccination and related things.
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Post by justlikeyou on Jun 13, 2023 21:08:48 GMT -5
Yes, drama. Its kinda like the gorilla exhibition at the zoo. Peeps are drawn to watch the curious behavior and antics of the creatures but would never think to join in. There has to be a hook. Some sense of relation. As I've mentioned before, the perspectives expressed by pretty much everyone who has ever posted here (outside of spam), are quite unique. Not a shallow pond. Finding that is few and far between on the interwebs. Always has, always will. Yes, some sense of relation. And yes, it is rare to find like-mindedness. Even rarer to find like hearted-ness.
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Post by sharon on Jun 14, 2023 1:07:21 GMT -5
Yes, drama. Its kinda like the gorilla exhibition at the zoo. Peeps are drawn to watch the curious behavior and antics of the creatures but would never think to join in. There has to be a hook. Some sense of relation. As I've mentioned before, the perspectives expressed by pretty much everyone who has ever posted here (outside of spam), are quite unique. Not a shallow pond. Finding that is few and far between on the interwebs. Always has, always will. That's what a shared history is. A sense of who we once were, remembered by someone else.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jun 14, 2023 7:51:17 GMT -5
I think Enigma was the dude who (on Figgles' site) told me that 5G networks controlled our brains and that vaccines are bioweapons. (Apparently the weakest ever invented.) If your spirituality gives you paranoid delusions about your fellow humans, then what good is it? I did not follow him much when he started talking about vaccination and related things.
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Post by laughter on Jun 14, 2023 13:53:47 GMT -5
There has to be a hook. Some sense of relation. As I've mentioned before, the perspectives expressed by pretty much everyone who has ever posted here (outside of spam), are quite unique. Not a shallow pond. Finding that is few and far between on the interwebs. Always has, always will. That's what a shared history is. A sense of who we once were, remembered by someone else. Yes, I definitely agree.
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Post by justlikeyou on Jun 16, 2023 20:41:19 GMT -5
Question: How do the concepts of animism and non-duality compare?
ChatGPT: Animism and non-duality are two distinct philosophical and spiritual concepts that have some similarities but also significant differences. Here's a comparison of these two concepts:
Nature of Reality:
Animism posits a multiplicity of individual entities, both living and non-living, each possessing its own consciousness or life force. It sees the world as consisting of a diverse array of interconnected beings with distinct identities and roles.
Non-duality, on the other hand, emphasizes the fundamental unity or oneness of all existence. It suggests that there is ultimately no separation or distinction between self and other, subject and object, or any dualistic concepts. Non-duality suggests that all apparent distinctions are illusory, and the underlying reality is a unified field of consciousness or awareness.
Perception of Self:
Animism typically acknowledges a distinct self or individual consciousness for each being, including humans, animals, and even non-living objects. It recognizes the interconnectedness of these individual selves within the larger web of life.
Non-duality challenges the notion of an isolated or independent self. It suggests that the sense of individuality or separateness is an illusion created by the mind. According to non-dual teachings, the true nature of self is identical to the universal consciousness, and the sense of individual identity is a temporary construct.
Concept of Consciousness:
In animism, consciousness is attributed to a wide range of beings, including humans, animals, plants, spirits, and sometimes even inanimate objects. Each entity is believed to possess its own form of consciousness or life force.
Non-duality sees consciousness as the fundamental essence of existence. It suggests that consciousness is universal and all-pervading, and every being, whether animate or inanimate, arises within and as an expression of that consciousness.
Focus on Unity vs. Diversity:
Animism highlights the diversity and multiplicity of beings and focuses on their interconnectedness and interdependence. It recognizes the unique roles and significance of each entity in the ecosystem of life.
Non-duality, in contrast, directs attention towards the underlying unity of existence. It emphasizes the illusory nature of perceived distinctions and encourages a shift in awareness towards recognizing the fundamental oneness of all things.
It's worth noting that animism is often associated with specific cultural and religious practices, while non-duality is a philosophical and spiritual concept that has been explored within various traditions and schools of thought. While both concepts explore the nature of reality and our relationship with the world, they approach these topics from different perspectives and with distinct emphases.
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Post by Reefs on Jun 16, 2023 22:03:50 GMT -5
However, the main idea is that it contradicts her fundamental principle of 'no blame'. In fact, this principle belongs to Enigma, and she has embraced it. I have never witnessed Enigma becoming angry and he remains committed to his teachings, whereas Figgles, who has adopted her teachings, does not I think Enigma was the dude who (on Figgles' site) told me that 5G networks controlled our brains and that vaccines are bioweapons. (Apparently the weakest ever invented.) If your spirituality gives you paranoid delusions about your fellow humans, then what good is it? DIHYDROGEN MONOXIDE: UNRECOGNIZED KILLERZohnerism
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Post by justlikeyou on Jun 18, 2023 19:17:36 GMT -5
Question: Did Douglas Harding deny that the Formless Presence enlivens the world?
ChatGPT: No, Douglas Harding did not deny that the Formless Presence enlivens the world. In fact, his teachings often emphasized the interconnectedness of the Formless Presence and the world, highlighting their inseparable nature.
Harding's perspective acknowledged that the Formless Presence, which he referred to as the underlying awareness or consciousness, is not separate from the world but intimately connected to it. He saw the world as an expression or manifestation of the Formless Presence.
According to Harding, the Formless Presence encompasses and enlivens all phenomena, including the world. It is the very source from which all forms arise and appear. Rather than denying the enlivening presence of the Formless in the world, he invited individuals to directly perceive this interconnectedness and recognize the vital role of the Formless Presence in the unfolding of existence.
Harding's teachings encouraged individuals to shift their attention from the objects of perception to the perceiving presence itself. By exploring their own direct experience and investigating the nature of awareness, they could come to recognize the Formless Presence as the ever-present backdrop to their perceptions and experiences of the world.
Through this direct recognition, individuals could realize that the Formless Presence is not a passive or inert background, but an active, enlivening force that infuses and animates the world. It is the source of life and vitality, giving rise to the diverse expressions and phenomena that we encounter.
So, rather than denying the enlivening presence of the Formless in the world, Harding's teachings point to a deep interconnection between the Formless Presence and the world, inviting individuals to directly experience and recognize this inseparable relationship.
Expand on this: "According to Harding, the Formless Presence encompasses and enlivens all phenomena, including the world. It is the very source from which all forms arise and appear. Rather than denying the enlivening presence of the Formless in the world, he invited individuals to directly perceive this interconnectedness and recognize the vital role of the Formless Presence in the unfolding of existence."
ChatGPT: Douglas Harding's understanding of the Formless Presence goes beyond conceptual explanations and invites individuals to explore and directly perceive the interconnectedness between the Formless Presence and the world. Here is an expansion on the description you provided:
According to Harding, the Formless Presence is not separate from the world but intimately intertwined with it. It is the underlying essence or source from which all forms and phenomena arise and manifest. This Formless Presence is not limited to being an individual attribute or property but is considered to be the universal, all-pervading consciousness that encompasses and enlivens everything.
Harding's teachings emphasized the direct perception of this interconnectedness. He invited individuals to shift their attention from the objects of perception to the perceiving presence itself, thereby recognizing the Formless Presence that is ever-present and aware of all phenomena, including the world.
By engaging in this experiential inquiry, individuals could come to directly perceive the inseparability of the Formless Presence and the world. They would realize that the Formless Presence is not only the source of their own awareness but also the underlying foundation of the entire manifest universe.
Through this direct perception, individuals would recognize the vital role of the Formless Presence in the unfolding of existence. They would see that the Formless Presence is not a passive observer but an active, creative force that brings forth and sustains the diverse expressions and phenomena of the world.
By recognizing the enlivening presence of the Formless in the world, individuals could cultivate a deep sense of interconnectedness, reverence, and gratitude for the richness and diversity of existence. They would see themselves as integral parts of the seamless tapestry of life, intimately connected to all beings and the natural world.
It's important to note that while this expansion captures the essence of Douglas Harding's teachings, engaging with his original works, such as his books and recorded talks, will provide a more comprehensive understanding of his perspectives on the enlivening presence of the Formless in the world.
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Post by justlikeyou on Jun 20, 2023 20:38:00 GMT -5
Expand on this idea: Non-dual teachings often point to the idea that the divine or the transcendent is not separate from the self but is, in fact, the essence of the self. So, in encounters with the divine, the self is understood to be meeting its own true nature, which is infinite, unbounded, and intimately connected to the larger cosmic reality.
ChatGPT In non-dual teachings, the concept of the divine or the transcendent being the essence of the self stems from the understanding that the true nature of reality is fundamentally non-dual. Non-duality asserts that the perceived separation between the individual self and the divine or the ultimate reality is illusory.
According to this perspective, the self, which is typically identified with the individual body, mind, and personality, is seen as a temporary construct or a conditioned notion of identity. Non-dual teachings propose that beyond these transient aspects, there is a deeper, more essential aspect of the self that is timeless, boundless, and interconnected with all of existence.
In encounters with the divine, the self is said to meet its own true nature because the boundaries and limitations of the individual self momentarily dissolve or expand. This can lead to a direct experiential realization that the self is not separate from the divine or the transcendent, but rather an inseparable expression of it.
In this view, the divine or the transcendent is not seen as a separate entity or a distant external deity but as the very essence or substratum of the self. It is the source from which the individual self arises and to which it ultimately returns. The encounters with the divine are considered moments of recognition or remembrance, where the illusion of separation is shattered, and the inherent unity and interconnectedness of all things become apparent.
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Post by figrebirth on Jun 21, 2023 18:52:53 GMT -5
Expand on this idea: Non-dual teachings often point to the idea that the divine or the transcendent is not separate from the self but is, in fact, the essence of the self. So, in encounters with the divine, the self is understood to be meeting its own true nature, which is infinite, unbounded, and intimately connected to the larger cosmic reality. ChatGPT In non-dual teachings, the concept of the divine or the transcendent being the essence of the self stems from the understanding that the true nature of reality is fundamentally non-dual. Non-duality asserts that the perceived separation between the individual self and the divine or the ultimate reality is illusory. According to this perspective, the self, which is typically identified with the individual body, mind, and personality, is seen as a temporary construct or a conditioned notion of identity. Non-dual teachings propose that beyond these transient aspects, there is a deeper, more essential aspect of the self that is timeless, boundless, and interconnected with all of existence. In encounters with the divine, the self is said to meet its own true nature because the boundaries and limitations of the individual self momentarily dissolve or expand. This can lead to a direct experiential realization that the self is not separate from the divine or the transcendent, but rather an inseparable expression of it. In this view, the divine or the transcendent is not seen as a separate entity or a distant external deity but as the very essence or substratum of the self. It is the source from which the individual self arises and to which it ultimately returns. The encounters with the divine are considered moments of recognition or remembrance, where the illusion of separation is shattered, and the inherent unity and interconnectedness of all things become apparent. I would so much prefer that you, JLY, elaborate on what YOU know re: that question posed.
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Post by justlikeyou on Jun 21, 2023 20:06:30 GMT -5
Expand on this idea: Non-dual teachings often point to the idea that the divine or the transcendent is not separate from the self but is, in fact, the essence of the self. So, in encounters with the divine, the self is understood to be meeting its own true nature, which is infinite, unbounded, and intimately connected to the larger cosmic reality. ChatGPT In non-dual teachings, the concept of the divine or the transcendent being the essence of the self stems from the understanding that the true nature of reality is fundamentally non-dual. Non-duality asserts that the perceived separation between the individual self and the divine or the ultimate reality is illusory. According to this perspective, the self, which is typically identified with the individual body, mind, and personality, is seen as a temporary construct or a conditioned notion of identity. Non-dual teachings propose that beyond these transient aspects, there is a deeper, more essential aspect of the self that is timeless, boundless, and interconnected with all of existence. In encounters with the divine, the self is said to meet its own true nature because the boundaries and limitations of the individual self momentarily dissolve or expand. This can lead to a direct experiential realization that the self is not separate from the divine or the transcendent, but rather an inseparable expression of it. In this view, the divine or the transcendent is not seen as a separate entity or a distant external deity but as the very essence or substratum of the self. It is the source from which the individual self arises and to which it ultimately returns. The encounters with the divine are considered moments of recognition or remembrance, where the illusion of separation is shattered, and the inherent unity and interconnectedness of all things become apparent. I would so much prefer that you, JLY, elaborate on what YOU know re: that question posed. Ok, here's an elaboration. "wow, what are the odds that the molecules and atoms that I am wound up here!". For me it was more like "wow, there is an invisible force holding and molding every single atom in the entire cosmos"
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Post by figrebirth on Jun 22, 2023 0:37:36 GMT -5
Okay. Interesting. Thanks for answering so concisely. So for you, seeing through separation does not reveal the absence of a some-thing/some-one that perceives...?
What IS that "perceiving entity" per se? Is it the body that is giving rise to perception....does experience/perception depend on a brain? (I do recall you being quite adamant that you knew socks and rocks and paperclips to also be perceiving...so how does that work?)
& then, What did you mean then in the past when you said that people are "appearance only"? Have you changed your view on that? (for whatever it's worth, there is nothing at all wrong with changing views on this stuff).
Andrew: That the question is misconceived! And this conclusion is based on another conclusion (for example, 'there are no people') My basic definition of SR has always been seeing the real as real and the false as false. And what is false comes and goes, but what is real does not come and go.Do those you say you've realized to be "actual" perceivers/experiencers "come and go"?
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Post by figrebirth on Jun 22, 2023 0:44:15 GMT -5
I am going to be as succinct and impersonal here in my phrasing of questions as I can be so as not to fall into what you deem to be 'crusading' and I hope that you will in kind, also, directly and succinctly answer my questions. Thanks in advance.
In past conversations here, I am pretty sure you used to be on board with the perceiver/knower/seer/doer, Ultimately, getting seen through in SR...?
So, let's start with this basic question; Do you agree or disagree that in SR/awakening, it is realized, that ultimately, while perception happens....while there is seeing....while experientially stuff 'gets done,' there is actually no "perceiver/experiencer/doer/thinker/seer"?
To both questions, NO. To clarify, did you mean here that for you, it's been realized that the experiential "me" IS an "actual" seer/doer? (Also, perceiver/experiencer)?
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