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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jun 22, 2023 5:44:24 GMT -5
To clarify, did you mean here that for you, it's been realized that the experiential "me" IS an "actual" seer/doer? (Also, perceiver/experiencer)? Yea, I was interested in an answer to that, an explanation. I suspect that the answer involves context.
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Post by figrebirth on Jun 22, 2023 13:26:36 GMT -5
To clarify, did you mean here that for you, it's been realized that the experiential "me" IS an "actual" seer/doer? (Also, perceiver/experiencer)? Yea, I was interested in an answer to that, an explanation. I suspect that the answer involves context. I dunno. The context of the assertion of "knowing" re: perceivers/experiencers was always the Absolute/impersonal context. That knowing was said to be "realized" via transcendent seeing.
All realized 'knowing/seeing' is Absolute/impersonal/transcendent seeing that hinges upon a 'position' of seeing that is prior to/beyond mind content.
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Post by justlikeyou on Jun 22, 2023 21:09:37 GMT -5
Query: Some in non-duality suggest that the human experience is similar to god falling into his/her own dream. What might this mean?
ChatGPT: The idea that the human experience is akin to God falling into his/her own dream is a concept often associated with non-dualistic philosophies and spiritual traditions. It suggests that the fundamental reality, often referred to as God or the cosmic consciousness, temporarily assumes individualized forms (such as human beings) and engages in an immersive dream-like experience.
Here's a possible interpretation of what this concept might mean:
The Illusory Nature of Individual Identity: In non-dualistic thought, the individualized identities we often identify with, such as "I," "me," or "self," are seen as temporary constructs or illusions. They are considered products of the mind and not the ultimate reality. Just as in a dream, where the dreamer assumes various roles and identities, the cosmic consciousness manifests in the form of individual beings, delving into a seemingly separate and distinct experience.
Creation of a Diverse and Dynamic Reality: The notion of God falling into his/her own dream suggests that the cosmic consciousness intentionally enters into a state of self-imposed limitation and forgetfulness, enabling the creation of a diverse and dynamic reality. This dream-like experience encompasses the multiplicity of forms, experiences, and interactions that exist within the universe. It is through this immersive journey that the cosmic consciousness explores and unfolds its infinite potentialities.
Temporary Veiling of Divine Knowledge: In this framework, the cosmic consciousness temporarily veils its inherent knowledge and understanding of its true nature, akin to forgetting its divine essence. This self-forgetting allows for genuine exploration, self-discovery, and the potential for growth and transformation. The human experience, characterized by its limitations and challenges, becomes an opportunity for the cosmic consciousness to reawaken to its fundamental nature.
Unity and the Awakening Process: While the dream-like experience appears to be a fragmented and diverse reality, non-dualistic philosophies emphasize the underlying unity of all existence. Just as a dream is ultimately an expression of the dreamer's mind, the multitude of individual experiences in the human realm is believed to be interconnected and inseparable from the cosmic consciousness. The awakening process involves recognizing this fundamental unity and transcending the illusion of separateness, leading to the realization of one's essential nature as the cosmic consciousness itself.
It's important to note that interpretations of non-dualistic concepts may vary across different philosophical and spiritual traditions. This understanding aims to provide a general framework for considering the idea of the human experience as a dream-like manifestation of the cosmic consciousness. Exploring different perspectives and engaging in personal inquiry can further deepen one's understanding and relationship with these concepts.
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Post by figrebirth on Jun 22, 2023 21:56:12 GMT -5
Query: Some in non-duality suggest that the human experience is similar to god falling into his/her own dream. What might this mean? ChatGPT: The idea that the human experience is akin to God falling into his/her own dream is a concept often associated with non-dualistic philosophies and spiritual traditions. It suggests that the fundamental reality, often referred to as God or the cosmic consciousness, temporarily assumes individualized forms (such as human beings) and engages in an immersive dream-like experience. Here's a possible interpretation of what this concept might mean: The Illusory Nature of Individual Identity: In non-dualistic thought, the individualized identities we often identify with, such as "I," "me," or "self," are seen as temporary constructs or illusions. They are considered products of the mind and not the ultimate reality. Just as in a dream, where the dreamer assumes various roles and identities, the cosmic consciousness manifests in the form of individual beings, delving into a seemingly separate and distinct experience. Creation of a Diverse and Dynamic Reality: The notion of God falling into his/her own dream suggests that the cosmic consciousness intentionally enters into a state of self-imposed limitation and forgetfulness, enabling the creation of a diverse and dynamic reality. This dream-like experience encompasses the multiplicity of forms, experiences, and interactions that exist within the universe. It is through this immersive journey that the cosmic consciousness explores and unfolds its infinite potentialities. Temporary Veiling of Divine Knowledge: In this framework, the cosmic consciousness temporarily veils its inherent knowledge and understanding of its true nature, akin to forgetting its divine essence. This self-forgetting allows for genuine exploration, self-discovery, and the potential for growth and transformation. The human experience, characterized by its limitations and challenges, becomes an opportunity for the cosmic consciousness to reawaken to its fundamental nature. Unity and the Awakening Process: While the dream-like experience appears to be a fragmented and diverse reality, non-dualistic philosophies emphasize the underlying unity of all existence. Just as a dream is ultimately an expression of the dreamer's mind, the multitude of individual experiences in the human realm is believed to be interconnected and inseparable from the cosmic consciousness. The awakening process involves recognizing this fundamental unity and transcending the illusion of separateness, leading to the realization of one's essential nature as the cosmic consciousness itself. It's important to note that interpretations of non-dualistic concepts may vary across different philosophical and spiritual traditions. This understanding aims to provide a general framework for considering the idea of the human experience as a dream-like manifestation of the cosmic consciousness. Exploring different perspectives and engaging in personal inquiry can further deepen one's understanding and relationship with these concepts. That term was only ever an imperfect, poetic, metaphor/pointer to that which ultimately defies all conceptualization. So long as mind is still trying to grasp/conceptualize these poetic yet inept attempts to frame the ineffable in effable terms, it's aimed in an entirely futile direction...a fools errand beyond all fool's errands.
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Post by justlikeyou on Jun 22, 2023 22:01:30 GMT -5
That term was only ever an imperfect, poetic, metaphor/pointer to that which ultimately defies all conceptualization. So long as mind is still trying to grasp/conceptualize these poetic yet inept attempts to frame the ineffable in effable terms, it's aimed in an entirely futile direction...a fools errand beyond all fool's errands. Then perhaps you shouldn't use the term anymore.
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Post by figrebirth on Jun 22, 2023 22:06:44 GMT -5
That term was only ever an imperfect, poetic, metaphor/pointer to that which ultimately defies all conceptualization. So long as mind is still trying to grasp/conceptualize these poetic yet inept attempts to frame the ineffable in effable terms, it's aimed in an entirely futile direction...a fools errand beyond all fool's errands. Then perhaps you shouldn't use the term anymore. It was E's term.....not one I recall ever using myself.
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Post by figrebirth on Jun 22, 2023 22:10:19 GMT -5
...That said JLY....just because a particular pointer does not (cannot!) truly capture the essence of what it's pointing to, surely does not mean one "should" stop using it, if it resonates, does it? Surely you don't mean to say that just because words cannot truly capture the inefffable, we should therefore stop using words/poetry/metaphor to reference such...?
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Post by justlikeyou on Jun 22, 2023 22:18:47 GMT -5
...That said JLY....just because a particular pointer does not (cannot!) truly capture the essence of what it's pointing to, surely does not mean one "should" stop using it, if it resonates, does it? Surely you don't mean to say that just because words cannot truly capture the inefffable, we should therefore stop using words/poetry/metaphor to reference such...? No, of course not, You are free to engage in a fools errand as much as you wish.
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Post by figrebirth on Jun 22, 2023 22:27:54 GMT -5
...That said JLY....just because a particular pointer does not (cannot!) truly capture the essence of what it's pointing to, surely does not mean one "should" stop using it, if it resonates, does it? Surely you don't mean to say that just because words cannot truly capture the inefffable, we should therefore stop using words/poetry/metaphor to reference such...? No, of course not, You are free to engage in a fools errand as much as you wish. Poetry....metaphor......pointing, is a fool's errand?
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Post by justlikeyou on Jun 22, 2023 22:45:39 GMT -5
No, of course not, You are free to engage in a fools errand as much as you wish. Poetry....metaphor......pointing, is a fool's errand? It was your term. "trying to grasp/conceptualize these poetic yet inept attempts to frame the ineffable in effable terms, it's aimed in an entirely futile direction...a fools errand beyond all fool's errands."
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Post by figrebirth on Jun 22, 2023 22:59:14 GMT -5
Poetry....metaphor......pointing, is a fool's errand? It was your term. " trying to grasp/conceptualize these poetic yet inept attempts to frame the ineffable in effable terms, it's aimed in an entirely futile direction...a fools errand beyond all fool's errands." You missed the point;
"That term was only ever an imperfect, poetic, metaphor/pointer to that which ultimately defies all conceptualization. So long as mind is still trying to grasp/conceptualize these poetic yet inept attempts to frame the ineffable in effable terms, it's aimed in an entirely futile direction...a fools errand beyond all fool's errands. "
Pointers are not meant to be grappled down via mind. And that is precisely what you are doing as you pose your misconceived question to AI and then post the answer as though it is some kind of definitive, existential/Truth.
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Post by figrebirth on Jun 22, 2023 23:04:53 GMT -5
The best approach to metaphor, poetry, Nonduality pointers is to refrain from engaging them when mind is in "intellectual dissection mode," and instead approach them with an open, loose, non-judgmental countenance....really, the same position one would either read or write poetry from.
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Post by justlikeyou on Jun 22, 2023 23:10:09 GMT -5
It was your term. " trying to grasp/conceptualize these poetic yet inept attempts to frame the ineffable in effable terms, it's aimed in an entirely futile direction...a fools errand beyond all fool's errands." You missed the point;
"That term was only ever an imperfect, poetic, metaphor/pointer to that which ultimately defies all conceptualization. So long as mind is still trying to grasp/conceptualize these poetic yet inept attempts to frame the ineffable in effable terms, it's aimed in an entirely futile direction...a fools errand beyond all fool's errands. " Pointers are not meant to be grappled down via mind. And that is precisely what you are doing as you pose your misconceived question to AI and then post the answer as though it is some kind of definitive, existential/Truth. Thanks for clarifying your position.
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Post by sharon on Jun 23, 2023 0:58:59 GMT -5
The best approach to metaphor, poetry, Nonduality pointers is to refrain from engaging them when mind is in "intellectual dissection mode," and instead approach them with an open, loose, non-judgmental countenance....really, the same position one would either read or write poetry from. To suggest that it is up to the audience to adopt a suitable countenance when reading perspectives of 'not-two', is a little shy of recognising how deep one needs to be in this moment, when tapping at their keyboard.
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Post by laughter on Jun 23, 2023 8:07:30 GMT -5
The best approach to metaphor, poetry, Nonduality pointers is to refrain from engaging them when mind is in "intellectual dissection mode," and instead approach them with an open, loose, non-judgmental countenance....really, the same position one would either read or write poetry from.
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