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Post by maxdprophet on Nov 20, 2017 16:55:35 GMT -5
On the first category, whuddabout just SR "doesn't seem to be in the cards"? Come what may. There is sooo much law of Attraction tied up in the seeker’s search Max ”For those that seek knowledge, Knowledge is granted.” While its true that at the end it can be useful to just kind of give up, I suspect that EVERY person who sought and eventually experienced a CC event or SR of some type believed deep down that some day they would succeeed, and that giving up until one realized was simply not an option. And sure enough it eventually happens. This is not an accident or random luck, it’s straight forward Law of Attraction...and ultimately it was only as difficult as they believed it would be. How difficult and or ‘not possible’ are you believing this to be for yourself, if at all? However much that belief may be engrained it is in the end just another belief, an accepted pattern of thought accepted by you to be real....but all beliefs are just thoughts...and you can become conscious of any thought or thought pattern and simply move in a different direction. For me, there was a natural predilection for turning inward so to speak, and that determined my interest and goals. I developed a steadfast goal to gnosis what the Buddha’s gnosised, but to do it while living everyday life instead of going to a monastery. I recieved that goal in my early 20’s. I also thought of it as something that would required a supreme effort, a supreme discipline...and thought of it as something of a monumental achievement like climbing the Mount Everest of the mind. Many realizations occurred along the way that repeatedly changed my whole thought paradigm about all of that...but two beliefs remained constant: 1. It will be diffcult 2. But if other men have done it then I can and WILL to. It would have been a lot easier and faster if I had simply chosen not to believe the first one 😂😂😂 If it's up to LOA I will surely fail! Think of all those barefooted aspiring monks who knelt in snowstorms just for the chance that the abbot would open the door so they could start their first lifetime of a multitude for final liberation! They had much better mettle in terms of aspiration than I do, and still that wasn't enough for most (though, they do have some more lifetimes to get there). |
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Post by bubbananda on Nov 20, 2017 18:01:39 GMT -5
Understanding without thinking can occur anywhere and at any time. Yesterday I talked to a woman who claims that she never has a verbal thought, and has never had an internal dialogue. She claims that her mind has always been totally silent. She speaks several languages and has held high-level positions in state government. At one time she worked in the office of economic development. I know the man who was the director of that office, and he told me that she was the best employee he ever had (among other duties, she accompanied him on trade missions to China and Japan as a translator). I asked her how she interacts with the world on a daily basis, and her answer was interesting. She said that she "just throws it all out there" and "deals with whatever happens as a result." It took a while for me to grasp what she meant by that, but I think she meant that life is transactional and direct rather than governed by directional thought. She told me that in high pressure situations when everyone is panicking about some issue, everything slows down for her as if life goes into super slow motion. She said that she never feels stress and has no self image. I have many more questions to ask her, but I told her that I first wanted her to read some books about SR and related issues, so that she'd have some background. Amazingly, she doesn't realize how unusual it is not to have any verbal thought. Shows what I know, I didn't think it was even possible for a human being to go through life and never have a "verbal thought". "never feels stress and has no self image". Fascinating. |
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Post by lolly on Nov 21, 2017 2:54:34 GMT -5
Understanding without thinking can occur anywhere and at any time. Yesterday I talked to a woman who claims that she never has a verbal thought, and has never had an internal dialogue. She claims that her mind has always been totally silent. She speaks several languages and has held high-level positions in state government. At one time she worked in the office of economic development. I know the man who was the director of that office, and he told me that she was the best employee he ever had (among other duties, she accompanied him on trade missions to China and Japan as a translator). I asked her how she interacts with the world on a daily basis, and her answer was interesting. She said that she "just throws it all out there" and "deals with whatever happens as a result." It took a while for me to grasp what she meant by that, but I think she meant that life is transactional and direct rather than governed by directional thought. She told me that in high pressure situations when everyone is panicking about some issue, everything slows down for her as if life goes into super slow motion. She said that she never feels stress and has no self image. I have many more questions to ask her, but I told her that I first wanted her to read some books about SR and related issues, so that she'd have some background. Amazingly, she doesn't realize how unusual it is not to have any verbal thought. Shows what I know, I didn't think it was even possible for a human being to go through life and never have a "verbal thought". "never feels stress and has no self image". Fascinating. Yes everyone has verbal thoughts, but it's just a question of there being a thinker apart from thought, and in that sense the 'silent one' isn't the subject of thoughts. |
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Post by zendancer on Nov 21, 2017 8:07:33 GMT -5
Shows what I know, I didn't think it was even possible for a human being to go through life and never have a "verbal thought". "never feels stress and has no self image". Fascinating. Yes everyone has verbal thoughts, but it's just a question of there being a thinker apart from thought, and in that sense the 'silent one' isn't the subject of thoughts. My point was that, strange as it might seem to most folks, not everyone has verbal thoughts. I haven't asked that many people about this issue specifically, but accidentally I've now met two people who claim never to have experienced what most of us call "mindtalk" or "the internal dialogue." There are many people who experience a cessation of mindtalk for periods of time ranging from a few minutes to several days, but not many who claim never to have experienced it. I suspect that if this question were asked to a large number of people, there would be a very small number of them who would fall into the category of the woman I mentioned. I've attended several retreats in the past where teachers made statements like, "Thoughts cannot be stopped," or "The mind is never silent." I don;t argue with them in public, because this is a common myth, and obviously people who make those kinds of statements have never experienced the cessation of thoughts themselves, but those statements are simply untrue. Tolle was someone who suffered for many years as a result of incessantly negative mindtalk, and for that reason he emphasizes activities that shift attention away from mindtalk which has the effect of reducing it and increasing internal silence. |
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Post by bubbananda on Nov 21, 2017 9:36:04 GMT -5
Shows what I know, I didn't think it was even possible for a human being to go through life and never have a "verbal thought". "never feels stress and has no self image". Fascinating. Yes everyone has verbal thoughts, but it's just a question of there being a thinker apart from thought, and in that sense the 'silent one' isn't the subject of thoughts. Who is the thinker apart from thoughts? |
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Post by zendancer on Nov 21, 2017 9:49:30 GMT -5
Yes everyone has verbal thoughts, but it's just a question of there being a thinker apart from thought, and in that sense the 'silent one' isn't the subject of thoughts. Who is the thinker apart from thoughts? If you find the answer to the question, "Who is the thinker?" you will be stunned. Then you will have a big laugh and experience considerable euphoria.  |
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Post by bubbananda on Nov 21, 2017 9:54:53 GMT -5
Yes everyone has verbal thoughts, but it's just a question of there being a thinker apart from thought, and in that sense the 'silent one' isn't the subject of thoughts. My point was that, strange as it might seem to most folks, not everyone has verbal thoughts. I haven't asked that many people about this issue specifically, but accidentally I've now met two people who claim never to have experienced what most of us call "mindtalk" or "the internal dialogue." There are many people who experience a cessation of mindtalk for periods of time ranging from a few minutes to several days, but not many who claim never to have experienced it. I suspect that if this question were asked to a large number of people, there would be a very small number of them who would fall into the category of the woman I mentioned. I've attended several retreats in the past where teachers made statements like, "Thoughts cannot be stopped," or "The mind is never silent." I don;t argue with them in public, because this is a common myth, and obviously people who make those kinds of statements have never experienced the cessation of thoughts themselves, but those statements are simply untrue. Tolle was someone who suffered for many years as a result of incessantly negative mindtalk, and for that reason he emphasizes activities that shift attention away from mindtalk which has the effect of reducing it and increasing internal silence. I don't doubt at all that cessation of thought can happen, I think everyone has it happen at times, and it can become intentional. It just that everyone from the Buddha to Nisargardatta and anyone else I can think of that's self-realized starts off as a plain old human with all the baggage that entails and somehow realizes what we all truly are. If there are people that don't start at the same spot as the rest of us, then what are they? An evolution of the species? BTW, shifting attention away from mindtalk is working on a self that doesn't really exist, right? There's a koan for you :-) |
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Post by zendancer on Nov 21, 2017 10:08:32 GMT -5
My point was that, strange as it might seem to most folks, not everyone has verbal thoughts. I haven't asked that many people about this issue specifically, but accidentally I've now met two people who claim never to have experienced what most of us call "mindtalk" or "the internal dialogue." There are many people who experience a cessation of mindtalk for periods of time ranging from a few minutes to several days, but not many who claim never to have experienced it. I suspect that if this question were asked to a large number of people, there would be a very small number of them who would fall into the category of the woman I mentioned. I've attended several retreats in the past where teachers made statements like, "Thoughts cannot be stopped," or "The mind is never silent." I don;t argue with them in public, because this is a common myth, and obviously people who make those kinds of statements have never experienced the cessation of thoughts themselves, but those statements are simply untrue. Tolle was someone who suffered for many years as a result of incessantly negative mindtalk, and for that reason he emphasizes activities that shift attention away from mindtalk which has the effect of reducing it and increasing internal silence. I don't doubt at all that cessation of thought can happen, I think everyone has it happen at times, and it can become intentional. It just that everyone from the Buddha to Nisargardatta and anyone else I can think of that's self-realized starts off as a plain old human with all the baggage that entails and somehow realizes what we all truly are. If there are people that don't start at the same spot as the rest of us, then what are they? An evolution of the species? BTW, shifting attention away from mindtalk is working on a self that doesn't really exist, right? There's a koan for you :-) Haha! It all depends upon who the real shifter is, doesn't it?  One ZM had a sign inscribed above his monastery door. It read, "3600 mornings in a hundred years. Haven't you realized by now that it's the same old fellow?" Supposedly one monk looked at that sign and woke up. |
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Post by krsnaraja on Nov 21, 2017 11:02:34 GMT -5
Yes everyone has verbal thoughts, but it's just a question of there being a thinker apart from thought, and in that sense the 'silent one' isn't the subject of thoughts. Who is the thinker apart from thoughts? JKrishnamurti says, " Thought is the thinker. " The self which is situated in the heart can not think if it does not pass through the brain/mind when eyes are opened to see. The vision the self sees without going through the mind is pure. The seer sees in others the all-attractive entity ( Krsna ). A liberated soul sees this all attractive everywhere. Within the heart is the all-attractive self ( Krsna ). When eyes are open the visions it sees are pure. Impure when the self visits the mind when eyes are opened. How do we know, one is free from contamination of the mind? One example is Sukadeva Goswami. He went around without clothes. Pretty woman saw and he was not ashamed. Yet this naked sage taught Srimad Bhagavatam for seven straight days without food and water to King Pariksit at Naimisaranya. While sages e.g.Narada Muni listened. Want to see people who are free from contamination of the mind? Go to a nudist camp. |
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Post by bubbananda on Nov 21, 2017 11:21:38 GMT -5
I don't doubt at all that cessation of thought can happen, I think everyone has it happen at times, and it can become intentional. It just that everyone from the Buddha to Nisargardatta and anyone else I can think of that's self-realized starts off as a plain old human with all the baggage that entails and somehow realizes what we all truly are. If there are people that don't start at the same spot as the rest of us, then what are they? An evolution of the species? BTW, shifting attention away from mindtalk is working on a self that doesn't really exist, right? There's a koan for you :-) Haha! It all depends upon who the real shifter is, doesn't it? What a beautiful, deceptively simple question. That truly is the crux of the issue, isn't it? |
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Post by bubbananda on Nov 21, 2017 11:27:58 GMT -5
Who is the thinker apart from thoughts? JKrishnamurti says, " Thought is the thinker. " Want to see people who are free from contamination of the mind? Go to a nudist camp. LOL, that's funny! I like what you said, "The vision the self sees without going through the mind is pure." I'm finding that using the mind to listen to the heart instead of generating endless thought is a better use of the equipment. |
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Post by zendancer on Nov 21, 2017 11:35:31 GMT -5
Haha! It all depends upon who the real shifter is, doesn't it? What a beautiful, deceptively simple question. That truly is the crux of the issue, isn't it? Yes indeed. |
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Post by krsnaraja on Nov 21, 2017 11:37:09 GMT -5
JKrishnamurti says, " Thought is the thinker. " Want to see people who are free from contamination of the mind? Go to a nudist camp. LOL, that's funny! I like what you said, "The vision the self sees without going through the mind is pure." I'm finding that using the mind to listen to the heart instead of generating endless thought is a better use of the equipment. When we begin to focus ourselves in the heart instead of the mind, we hear the beating of the heart. It sounds this way, " Lub..gud..lub..gud..lub..gud...lub...gud.." The self in the heart is always telling the mind every second , every minute, every day, every month, every year and for the rest of our lives to love God. |
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Post by lolly on Nov 22, 2017 2:56:27 GMT -5
Yes everyone has verbal thoughts, but it's just a question of there being a thinker apart from thought, and in that sense the 'silent one' isn't the subject of thoughts. Who is the thinker apart from thoughts? Dunno. |
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Post by lolly on Nov 22, 2017 2:59:07 GMT -5
Yes everyone has verbal thoughts, but it's just a question of there being a thinker apart from thought, and in that sense the 'silent one' isn't the subject of thoughts. My point was that, strange as it might seem to most folks, not everyone has verbal thoughts. I haven't asked that many people about this issue specifically, but accidentally I've now met two people who claim never to have experienced what most of us call "mindtalk" or "the internal dialogue." There are many people who experience a cessation of mindtalk for periods of time ranging from a few minutes to several days, but not many who claim never to have experienced it. I suspect that if this question were asked to a large number of people, there would be a very small number of them who would fall into the category of the woman I mentioned. I've attended several retreats in the past where teachers made statements like, "Thoughts cannot be stopped," or "The mind is never silent." I don;t argue with them in public, because this is a common myth, and obviously people who make those kinds of statements have never experienced the cessation of thoughts themselves, but those statements are simply untrue. Tolle was someone who suffered for many years as a result of incessantly negative mindtalk, and for that reason he emphasizes activities that shift attention away from mindtalk which has the effect of reducing it and increasing internal silence. They have the verbal thoughts they used to tell you that. Probably fell silent immediately after saying so, though. The mind can be silent, though, without 'chatter'. I'm with Tolle on that one. |
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