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Post by krsnaraja on Nov 22, 2017 3:28:50 GMT -5
My point was that, strange as it might seem to most folks, not everyone has verbal thoughts. I haven't asked that many people about this issue specifically, but accidentally I've now met two people who claim never to have experienced what most of us call "mindtalk" or "the internal dialogue." There are many people who experience a cessation of mindtalk for periods of time ranging from a few minutes to several days, but not many who claim never to have experienced it. I suspect that if this question were asked to a large number of people, there would be a very small number of them who would fall into the category of the woman I mentioned. I've attended several retreats in the past where teachers made statements like, "Thoughts cannot be stopped," or "The mind is never silent." I don;t argue with them in public, because this is a common myth, and obviously people who make those kinds of statements have never experienced the cessation of thoughts themselves, but those statements are simply untrue. Tolle was someone who suffered for many years as a result of incessantly negative mindtalk, and for that reason he emphasizes activities that shift attention away from mindtalk which has the effect of reducing it and increasing internal silence. They have the verbal thoughts they used to tell you that. Probably fell silent immediately after saying so, though. The mind can be silent, though, without 'chatter'.
I'm with Tolle on that one.  |
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Post by zendancer on Nov 22, 2017 8:45:58 GMT -5
My point was that, strange as it might seem to most folks, not everyone has verbal thoughts. I haven't asked that many people about this issue specifically, but accidentally I've now met two people who claim never to have experienced what most of us call "mindtalk" or "the internal dialogue." There are many people who experience a cessation of mindtalk for periods of time ranging from a few minutes to several days, but not many who claim never to have experienced it. I suspect that if this question were asked to a large number of people, there would be a very small number of them who would fall into the category of the woman I mentioned. I've attended several retreats in the past where teachers made statements like, "Thoughts cannot be stopped," or "The mind is never silent." I don;t argue with them in public, because this is a common myth, and obviously people who make those kinds of statements have never experienced the cessation of thoughts themselves, but those statements are simply untrue. Tolle was someone who suffered for many years as a result of incessantly negative mindtalk, and for that reason he emphasizes activities that shift attention away from mindtalk which has the effect of reducing it and increasing internal silence. They have the verbal thoughts they used to tell you that. Probably fell silent immediately after saying so, though. The mind can be silent, though, without 'chatter'. I'm with Tolle on that one. Verbal thoughts are not necessary for conversation, and only in rare cases do people purposely think about what they're going to say before they speak. People with extremely silent minds do not even do that. Tolle often sits in silence prior to public satsangs, not in order to think up what he's going to say, but simply waiting for the words to appear. This is true of many, if not most, ND teachers. |
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Post by zendancer on Nov 22, 2017 8:46:40 GMT -5
They have the verbal thoughts they used to tell you that. Probably fell silent immediately after saying so, though. The mind can be silent, though, without 'chatter'.
I'm with Tolle on that one. Amen. |
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Post by krsnaraja on Nov 22, 2017 23:17:10 GMT -5
Arresting the mind is the only way to silence this noisy intellectual machine. By brain-cuffing it, the self is freed from what it wants to do with the body. With music dances the waltz. |
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Post by lolly on Nov 23, 2017 3:04:06 GMT -5
They have the verbal thoughts they used to tell you that. Probably fell silent immediately after saying so, though. The mind can be silent, though, without 'chatter'. I'm with Tolle on that one. Verbal thoughts are not necessary for conversation, and only in rare cases do people purposely think about what they're going to say before they speak. People with extremely silent minds do not even do that. Tolle often sits in silence prior to public satsangs, not in order to think up what he's going to say, but simply waiting for the words to appear. This is true of many, if not most, ND teachers. I guess so, just speak as it comes out. I would have considered that verbal thoughts, though, but no need to split strawmans ay teehee. |
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Post by justlikeyou on Nov 23, 2017 9:44:19 GMT -5
Verbal thoughts are not necessary for conversation, and only in rare cases do people purposely think about what they're going to say before they speak. People with extremely silent minds do not even do that. Tolle often sits in silence prior to public satsangs, not in order to think up what he's going to say, but simply waiting for the words to appear. This is true of many, if not most, ND teachers. I guess so, just speak as it comes out. I would have considered that verbal thoughts, though, but no need to split strawmans ay teehee. One verbalizes, but one does not have to plan ahead of time what to say. Most of what we speak is contemporaneous, though sometimes we practice or rehearse things beforehand, for a job interview perhaps, or what we are going to say to so and so when we see them, etc. This is usually not a very efficient way to conduct ourselves though, because what is planned ahead of time is almost always out of context for how the moment actually presents, which is almost never as we imagine it to be. |
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Post by zendancer on Nov 23, 2017 10:23:54 GMT -5
I guess so, just speak as it comes out. I would have considered that verbal thoughts, though, but no need to split strawmans ay teehee. One verbalizes, but one does not have to plan ahead of time what to say. Most of what we speak is contemporaneous, though sometimes we practice or rehearse things beforehand, for a job interview perhaps, or what we are going to say to so and so when we see them, etc. This is usually not a very efficient way to conduct ourselves though, because what is planned ahead of time is almost always out of context for how the moment actually presents, which is almost never as we imagine it to be. Yes; THIS is very intelligent! I suspect that a certain amount of internal silence is necessary to get a sense of just how intelligent THIS is. Humans are mesmerized by cultural conditioning to imagine that they are beings in control of what the body does, but this is laughable. We don't know how "we" circulate blood, grow hair or teeth, regulate blood gas concentrations, regulate hormones or body temperature, cause blood to clot, grow, age, breathe, see, think, speak, or do almost anything else. Most of us have cartoon images in the mind that "explain" all of the stuff that's happening. A biologist, for example, will say, "Well, if we cut our skin, there is a sequence of biochemical events that will occur that will "cause" the blood to clot," as if naming the individual chemical reactions explains anything. Or, a person will say, "All of that stuff is automatic," but s/he will never grasp that everything else falls into that same automatic incomprehensible category. The idea that "I am walking down the street" (as a separate entity) is hilarious if looked at from a deeper perspective.  |
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Post by lolly on Nov 23, 2017 20:23:46 GMT -5
I guess so, just speak as it comes out. I would have considered that verbal thoughts, though, but no need to split strawmans ay teehee. One verbalizes, but one does not have to plan ahead of time what to say. Most of what we speak is contemporaneous, though sometimes we practice or rehearse things beforehand, for a job interview perhaps, or what we are going to say to so and so when we see them, etc. This is usually not a very efficient way to conduct ourselves though, because what is planned ahead of time is almost always out of context for how the moment actually presents, which is almost never as we imagine it to be. I think preparing for an interview is the most efficient approach. |
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Post by krsnaraja on Nov 23, 2017 20:29:46 GMT -5
I just browsed over a spiritual forum ( Yoganandaji ). There was in that thread members arguing. One said that the master was not an incarnation of William Penn. Because there was no evidence to prove otherwise. The other devout forum member thought otherwise and described the latter a troll.
I experienced this myself being branded, " A trouble-maker, a troll, " in different spiritual forums I can remember. Even a Hare Krsna forum, the registered users there also consider me a nuisance.
A liberated soul actually scoffs at these accusations. Finally, realizing that if one wants to stay put, stay in one place, one should not stir things up. Simply ride on whatever is the topic at hand.
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Post by krsnaraja on Nov 24, 2017 0:17:25 GMT -5
I just browsed over a spiritual forum ( Yoganandaji ). There was in that thread members arguing. One said that the master was not an incarnation of William Penn. Because there was no evidence to prove otherwise. The other devout forum member thought otherwise and described the latter a troll. I experienced this myself being branded, " A trouble-maker, a troll, " in different spiritual forums I can remember. Even a Hare Krsna forum, the registered users there also consider me a nuisance. A liberated soul actually scoffs at these accusations. Finally, realizing that if one wants to stay put, stay in one place, one should not stir things up. Simply ride on whatever is the topic at hand. I thought I erred on this one. Latter is also a word for Church of the Latter-Day Saints. There are members or devout followers of Yoganandaji who formerly belong to the Mormons. Most of them lived in Utah, USA. What I know SR Fellowship former President was a Mormon Daya Mata ( deceased ). That`s another story. Thinking and thoughts to an Advait is mental are illusions. But that`s not a problem for those who seek self-realization. Thoughts and thinking are used to enhance not depreciate one`s well-being. It`s alright to think. It does not do any harm. Thoughts that are malicious and evil should be condemned. After all, they belong to the criminal mind. Let thought be focused on love not hate. That`s what self-realized freedom is all about. |
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Post by lolly on Nov 24, 2017 1:08:55 GMT -5
I just browsed over a spiritual forum ( Yoganandaji ). There was in that thread members arguing. One said that the master was not an incarnation of William Penn. Because there was no evidence to prove otherwise. The other devout forum member thought otherwise and described the latter a troll. I experienced this myself being branded, " A trouble-maker, a troll, " in different spiritual forums I can remember. Even a Hare Krsna forum, the registered users there also consider me a nuisance. A liberated soul actually scoffs at these accusations. Finally, realizing that if one wants to stay put, stay in one place, one should not stir things up. Simply ride on whatever is the topic at hand. I thought I erred on this one. Latter is also a word for Church of the Latter-Day Saints. There are members or devout followers of Yoganandaji who formerly belong to the Mormons. Most of them lived in Utah, USA. What I know SR Fellowship former President was a Mormon Daya Mata ( deceased ). That`s another story. Thinking and thoughts to an Advait is mental are illusions. But that`s not a problem for those who seek self-realization. Thoughts and thinking are used to enhance not depreciate one`s well-being. It`s alright to think. It does not do any harm. Thoughts that are malicious and evil should be condemned. After all, they belong to the criminal mind. Let thought be focused on love not hate. That`s what self-realized freedom is all about. Actually it's not just thought (which is by definition illusions), but the universe itself and all experience is illusory |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2017 2:59:53 GMT -5
I thought I erred on this one. Latter is also a word for Church of the Latter-Day Saints. There are members or devout followers of Yoganandaji who formerly belong to the Mormons. Most of them lived in Utah, USA. What I know SR Fellowship former President was a Mormon Daya Mata ( deceased ). That`s another story. Thinking and thoughts to an Advait is mental are illusions. But that`s not a problem for those who seek self-realization. Thoughts and thinking are used to enhance not depreciate one`s well-being. It`s alright to think. It does not do any harm. Thoughts that are malicious and evil should be condemned. After all, they belong to the criminal mind. Let thought be focused on love not hate. That`s what self-realized freedom is all about. Actually it's not just thought (which is by definition illusions), but the universe itself and all experience is illusory That's a very cute mind hook and can disconnect said mind from experience. The Universe is vast beyond comprehension or to quote another 'enlightened' Englishman, Douglas Adams, "it's very, very, very, very big." Now if we want to stay in the realm of the real, then it must have been experienced that This Living Earth is how you are knowing that you are. Because it's in you. It contains within the experience of it, the convincing idea that there are others to communicate with. "A sharable dream." To imagine that you are other than the Youniverse is a fools errand. And I wish you all the very best with that. |
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Post by lolly on Nov 24, 2017 4:07:26 GMT -5
Actually it's not just thought (which is by definition illusions), but the universe itself and all experience is illusory That's a very cute mind hook and can disconnect said mind from experience. The Universe is vast beyond comprehension or to quote another 'enlightened' Englishman, Douglas Adams, "it's very, very, very, very big." Now if we want to stay in the realm of the real, then it must have been experienced that This Living Earth is how you are knowing that you are. Because it's in you. It contains within the experience of it, the convincing idea that there are others to communicate with. "A sharable dream." To imagine that you are other than the Youniverse is a fools errand. And I wish you all the very best with that. yea, I'm more like the universe is what I am not, as it reveals nothing of what I am, but there is the 'not' which reflects my nature. |
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Post by justlikeyou on Nov 24, 2017 9:01:41 GMT -5
One verbalizes, but one does not have to plan ahead of time what to say. Most of what we speak is contemporaneous, though sometimes we practice or rehearse things beforehand, for a job interview perhaps, or what we are going to say to so and so when we see them, etc. This is usually not a very efficient way to conduct ourselves though, because what is planned ahead of time is almost always out of context for how the moment actually presents, which is almost never as we imagine it to be. I think preparing for an interview is the most efficient approach. No doubt that sometimes it may be. |
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Post by lolly on Nov 24, 2017 16:50:36 GMT -5
I think preparing for an interview is the most efficient approach. No doubt that sometimes it may be. Near enough always, really. |
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