lee
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Posts: 31 
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Post by lee on Nov 25, 2017 6:48:31 GMT -5
Out of curiosity I sent some emails to various people who have reportedly awakened, and asked them about their search for truth. I asked them to describe the various events that they think led to freedom. What I discovered is that some people find freedom as a result of giving up the search; some people find freedom as a result of SR; and some people find freedom as a result of both SR and CC experiences. One person claimed that freedom did not occur until after SR, after a CC experience, and after several years of burning off what he termed "residual egoic vasanas." The first category of people (those who lose interest in the search for truth or have some sort of insight that ends their search) do not seem to be what most of us would term SR. They seem to have concluded that the search, itself, is an intellectual phenomena that at some point does not deserve any further interest. When asked, "Who are you, really?" they will shrug their shoulders and say that the question is meaningless or holds no interest for them. They are no longer troubled by existential questions because they see all such questioning as pointless mental phenomena--thinking run amok. If people in the other categories are asked, "Who are you, really?", they will give definitive answers, such as "I am THAT," or "I am the cosmos." Or, they will say something like, "What I am cannot be imagined or spoken." Or, they will say, "There is only the Self, the Absolute, the Infinite. They seem to have a clear understanding that reality is a unified whole and that personal selfhood is a fiction--a set of ideas constituting a cartoon-like story. What's interesting is that all of the people I contacted felt free, and they were no longer searching for anything, but one group of people who wrote to me claimed to have found what they were looking for whereas the other group wrote that the search, itself, was pointless or useless--essentially a waste of time. Both groups seem content with everyday life just as it is, and I suspect that one would have to spend a fair amount of time with people in each group to see if there is any significant difference in the way they react to various life events. The first group have merely found the freedom from the need for intellectual answers but not freedom from suffering, for without the benefit of SR they would still be engaged in dualistic thinking/being, which is the cause of suffering. Those who have SR and are able to consistently abide or immerse in the Absolute have found freedom from suffering. The deeper and longer their immersion, the greater their bliss and their freedom from suffering. Thinking then is no longer a hindrance but a tool to help them create their Absolute-inspired reality. |
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Post by justlikeyou on Nov 25, 2017 8:05:32 GMT -5
Have you ever experienced going to an interview, or any other encounter, completely unrehearsed? Dude, you still single?  No. I am quite married. |
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Post by zendancer on Nov 25, 2017 8:13:11 GMT -5
Out of curiosity I sent some emails to various people who have reportedly awakened, and asked them about their search for truth. I asked them to describe the various events that they think led to freedom. What I discovered is that some people find freedom as a result of giving up the search; some people find freedom as a result of SR; and some people find freedom as a result of both SR and CC experiences. One person claimed that freedom did not occur until after SR, after a CC experience, and after several years of burning off what he termed "residual egoic vasanas." The first category of people (those who lose interest in the search for truth or have some sort of insight that ends their search) do not seem to be what most of us would term SR. They seem to have concluded that the search, itself, is an intellectual phenomena that at some point does not deserve any further interest. When asked, "Who are you, really?" they will shrug their shoulders and say that the question is meaningless or holds no interest for them. They are no longer troubled by existential questions because they see all such questioning as pointless mental phenomena--thinking run amok. If people in the other categories are asked, "Who are you, really?", they will give definitive answers, such as "I am THAT," or "I am the cosmos." Or, they will say something like, "What I am cannot be imagined or spoken." Or, they will say, "There is only the Self, the Absolute, the Infinite. They seem to have a clear understanding that reality is a unified whole and that personal selfhood is a fiction--a set of ideas constituting a cartoon-like story. What's interesting is that all of the people I contacted felt free, and they were no longer searching for anything, but one group of people who wrote to me claimed to have found what they were looking for whereas the other group wrote that the search, itself, was pointless or useless--essentially a waste of time. Both groups seem content with everyday life just as it is, and I suspect that one would have to spend a fair amount of time with people in each group to see if there is any significant difference in the way they react to various life events. The first group have merely found the freedom from the need for intellectual answers but not freedom from suffering, for without the benefit of SR they would still be engaged in dualistic thinking/being, which is the cause of suffering. Those who have SR and are able to consistently abide or immerse in the Absolute have found freedom from suffering. The deeper and longer their immersion, the greater their bliss and their freedom from suffering. Thinking then is no longer a hindrance but a tool to help them create their Absolute-inspired reality. Agreed, except for the last 11 words. I doubt that any of them see thinking as a tool for creating anything; they see thinking more as a functional aspect of "what is." Of course, that may be what you mean by those words.  |
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Post by zendancer on Nov 25, 2017 8:24:01 GMT -5
Oh right, as I word it like more like all the experience is within me, but for me there's a space that is just there - kinda like that famous screen analogy - but there is a space deeper than space which is entirely unrelated that reveals me Can you describe this me to me, please.  Who/what we ARE cannot be described; it can only be pointed to. During satsangs I like to spread my arms wide while saying, "What we are is THIS," indicating the Infinite. The Infinite includes both the seen and the unseen, the observer and the observed; it includes love, awareness, thoughts, silence, spirit, and "turtles all the way down."  |
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Post by krsnaraja on Nov 25, 2017 10:05:30 GMT -5
Can you describe this me to me, please. Who/what we ARE cannot be described; it can only be pointed to. During satsangs I like to spread my arms wide while saying, "What we are is THIS," indicating the Infinite. The Infinite includes both the seen and the unseen, the observer and the observed; it includes love, awareness, thoughts, silence, spirit, and "turtles all the way down." There must be something to describe. And not let keep one hanging.  |
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Post by justlikeyou on Nov 25, 2017 10:38:05 GMT -5
Who/what we ARE cannot be described; it can only be pointed to. During satsangs I like to spread my arms wide while saying, "What we are is THIS," indicating the Infinite. The Infinite includes both the seen and the unseen, the observer and the observed; it includes love, awareness, thoughts, silence, spirit, and "turtles all the way down." And not let keep one hanging. Hint. What is the baby before learning a single word? |
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lee
New Member
Posts: 31
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Post by lee on Nov 25, 2017 10:50:39 GMT -5
The first group have merely found the freedom from the need for intellectual answers but not freedom from suffering, for without the benefit of SR they would still be engaged in dualistic thinking/being, which is the cause of suffering. Those who have SR and are able to consistently abide or immerse in the Absolute have found freedom from suffering. The deeper and longer their immersion, the greater their bliss and their freedom from suffering. Thinking then is no longer a hindrance but a tool to help them create their Absolute-inspired reality. Agreed, except for the last 11 words. I doubt that any of them see thinking as a tool for creating anything; they see thinking more as a functional aspect of "what is." Of course, that may be what you mean by those words. Yes, we could be talking about the same thing and "functional aspect" is a wonderful way to describe it Everyone's expression of the Absolute is different with some being more passive and others more proactive, and I feel that depends significantly on what is our soul purpose or spiritual contract. On one end of the spectrum, we have someone like Ramana Maharshi who was almost always in a passive mode perhaps because that was his life mission. But if one is nearer the other end of the spectrum with a laundry list of worldly things to accomplish and constantly receiving inspirations and visions to build something, perhaps because such a person wishes to experience what it's like to be "deep in the world but not of the world", then the creative process will be more proactive. Or in the case where one may feel plenty of love and compassion and wishes to reach out and enlighten as many people as possible, the creative process will also be more proactive. Granted that RM's total surrender mode may be the most enlightened way of being, it is not necessarily the right one for any given individual as our soul agenda for any particular lifetime supersedes everything else. But whether it's more passive or proactive, yup, they are all functional aspects of the Absolute |
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Post by zendancer on Nov 25, 2017 11:06:52 GMT -5
Agreed, except for the last 11 words. I doubt that any of them see thinking as a tool for creating anything; they see thinking more as a functional aspect of "what is." Of course, that may be what you mean by those words. Yes, we could be talking about the same thing and "functional aspect" is a wonderful way to describe it Everyone's expression of the Absolute is different with some being more passive and others more proactive, and I feel that depends significantly on what is our soul purpose or spiritual contract. On one end of the spectrum, we have someone like Ramana Maharshi who was almost always in a passive mode perhaps because that was his life mission. But if one is nearer the other end of the spectrum with a laundry list of worldly things to accomplish and constantly receiving inspirations and visions to build something, perhaps because such a person wishes to experience what it's like to be "deep in the world but not of the world", then the creative process will be more proactive. Or in the case where one may feel plenty of love and compassion and wishes to reach out and enlighten as many people as possible, the creative process will also be more proactive. Granted that RM's total surrender mode may be the most enlightened way of being, it is not necessarily the right one for any given individual as our soul agenda for any particular lifetime supersedes everything else. But whether it's more passive or proactive, yup, they are all functional aspects of the Absolute Agreed, and it's great fun being on the other end of the spectrum from RM. |
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Post by zendancer on Nov 25, 2017 11:18:23 GMT -5
Who/what we ARE cannot be described; it can only be pointed to. During satsangs I like to spread my arms wide while saying, "What we are is THIS," indicating the Infinite. The Infinite includes both the seen and the unseen, the observer and the observed; it includes love, awareness, thoughts, silence, spirit, and "turtles all the way down." There must be something to describe. And not let keep one hanging. Sorry, but THAT is the one no-thing that can't be described. If it could be described, it would be something (some thing) with boundaries, but it doesn't have any. In deep meditation everything disappears except pure awareness, but in that state there's no separation (no psychological entity being aware of something), so there's nothing for awareness to be aware of. It can only be what it is--pure awareness being non-conceptually aware. That, too, can't be described because there's no object of perception--nothing is seen, heard, felt, or thought. All one can do is point by saying is, "Go there and see if there is anything that can be described or known." |
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Post by laughter on Nov 25, 2017 15:39:38 GMT -5
Dude, you still single? No. I am quite married. Then tell me the story of the proposal! |
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Post by laughter on Nov 25, 2017 15:41:35 GMT -5
Agreed, except for the last 11 words. I doubt that any of them see thinking as a tool for creating anything; they see thinking more as a functional aspect of "what is." Of course, that may be what you mean by those words. Yes, we could be talking about the same thing and "functional aspect" is a wonderful way to describe it Everyone's expression of the Absolute is different with some being more passive and others more proactive, and I feel that depends significantly on what is our soul purpose or spiritual contract. On one end of the spectrum, we have someone like Ramana Maharshi who was almost always in a passive mode perhaps because that was his life mission. But if one is nearer the other end of the spectrum with a laundry list of worldly things to accomplish and constantly receiving inspirations and visions to build something, perhaps because such a person wishes to experience what it's like to be "deep in the world but not of the world", then the creative process will be more proactive. Or in the case where one may feel plenty of love and compassion and wishes to reach out and enlighten as many people as possible, the creative process will also be more proactive. Granted that RM's total surrender mode may be the most enlightened way of being, it is not necessarily the right one for any given individual as our soul agenda for any particular lifetime supersedes everything else. But whether it's more passive or proactive, yup, they are all functional aspects of the Absolute So, what's a "soul purpose/spiritual contract"? |
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Post by krsnaraja on Nov 25, 2017 16:33:40 GMT -5
There must be something to describe. And not let keep one hanging. Hint. What is the baby before learning a single word? What I know is the 1st sound of the universe is Aum. What I know the 1st sound the baby utters is " Uha..uha..uha.." Does that make the universe/baby mute before they even learn a single word? |
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Post by justlikeyou on Nov 25, 2017 16:40:21 GMT -5
Then tell me the story of the proposal! It was a six week whirlwind love affair. At some point I knew we would be getting married, but even the night before we did so I didn't know when it would happen. That morning, we discussed it and next thing I know, after a quick stop at Town Hall for a license, we're on a mountain top in the start of a blizzard getting married by a Justice of the Peace with his daughter and two very large St Bernard's for witnesses. It was all over by noon. My (now) wife, Katya, dropped me at the house and went in to Dartmouth, where she was doing her medical residency, to finish the day (she had called in saying she would be late). I'm not sure what I did the rest of that day, but that night we ate at a lovely Japanese restaurant in Lebanon, NH to celebrate. Ha! Hadn't recalled that detail ever since until just now. |
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Post by krsnaraja on Nov 25, 2017 16:46:00 GMT -5
There must be something to describe. And not let keep one hanging. Sorry, but THAT is the one no-thing that can't be described. If it could be described, it would be something (some thing) with boundaries, but it doesn't have any. In deep meditation everything disappears except pure awareness, but in that state there's no separation (no psychological entity being aware of something), so there's nothing for awareness to be aware of. It can only be what it is--pure awareness being non-conceptually aware. That, too, can't be described because there's no object of perception--nothing is seen, heard, felt, or thought. All one can do is point by saying is, "Go there and see if there is anything that can be described or known." That`s what people say on an acid trip. |
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Post by justlikeyou on Nov 25, 2017 17:17:53 GMT -5
Then tell me the story of the proposal! PS: L, I'm not saying that planning doesn't happen. I actually kinda love planning, for things life brings my way, but especially when I organize a contents sale of an old estate. |
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