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Post by steven on Jul 21, 2017 0:47:41 GMT -5
Wishing to know about unknown unknowns is the surest way to fill up the glass so full that nothing else can fit... That's one way of looking at it. Another way of looking at it is that that's what keeps creation going. As A-H say, having new fresh unfulfilled desires is as good as it gets. That's what we all live for.  Completely agree ;-) though there is a moment in the search for some kind of unbound absolute that search and the yearning...the desire itsepf gets in the way....though that whole paradigm of living and exploration is a pretty small, though significant exception to what you wrote lol |
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Post by steven on Jul 21, 2017 1:07:49 GMT -5
Wishing to know about unknown unknowns is the surest way to fill up the glass so full that nothing else can fit... How about having an empty alert attention (an advice I hear a lot).. Is it the result of a wish (to have it) or not? Maybe the word 'know' was a problem? There isn't an emphasis on it (in my case). Empty Alert Attention is a very solid foundation for gnosis of what is....its also a good foundation from which to effectively and beautifully create. I've had a fascinating adventure over the last year exploring and experimenting with being (to some extent) creative about what IS. Principly I have found a couple effective means that in practice are an extension of some of the "spiritual" practices that happen with people on the enlightenment seeking path. In some cases I develop a very clear vision of some thing or circumstance thatI want to manifest, and then having brought into crystal clearfocus that vision, surrender into the ever present universal sound until I am in a kind of samadhi state, then very deliberately drawforth that vision from within the vibration of thatuUmiversal Sound....which for me is always present as a kind of ringing in the ears, and everywhere else when attention is given to it lol. Another Method is to simply be in still empty alertness and in that state of pure ISNESS where everything that is experience just IS, with no meaning, no conceptualization, it just simply IS. and from that state sort of CHOOSE what simply, and and utterly just IS. the latter is somewhat more difficult in practice, but I am pretty sure its the state in which Christ operated in when creating with a faith of absolute certainty some of what many considered to be miracles to the un-initiated for Jesus Christ there was no meaning or logic or illogic to walking on water...it simply IS when it IS lol thats humanity utilizing and demonstrating the peak of known human capacity to create or channel creation |
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Post by Peter on Jul 21, 2017 3:37:59 GMT -5
In some cases I develop a very clear vision of some thing or circumstance thatI want to manifest, and then having brought into crystal clearfocus that vision, surrender into the ever present universal sound until I am in a kind of samadhi state, then very deliberately drawforth that vision from within the vibration of thatuUmiversal Sound....which for me is always present as a kind of ringing in the ears, and everywhere else when attention is given to it lol. Hey Steve, you're back! Been a couple of years hasn't it? Can you give an example of something that you successfully manifested? I was initially confused by the two different aspects to your post here between desiring some preferred outcome and accepting what is, but after mulling that around for a bit I saw that the first is about 'putting it out there' for some future state, and the other is about being happy with the present. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jul 21, 2017 15:25:56 GMT -5
This may be interesting to very few, but I thought it worthy to post. It's a conceptual abstraction representing all the energy and matter of The Whole, found more fully in In Search of the Miraculous by PD Ouspensky. Gurdjieff stated that everything is "material", that is, exists as a certain frequency of vibration.
Gurdjieff called the origination, The Absolute, and he called this World One. The Absolute, One, began manifestation, by forming three forces, active-positive-force 1, passive-negative-force 2, neutralizing-reconciling-force 3.
Now, Gurdjieff very fully explains how forces 1, 2, 3 form the first degree of matter-energy, the density of vibrations and the density of matter. 1 + 3 + 2 = Hydrogen 6 (H6). This is the first triad. These, via the law of three (the higher blends with the lower to actualize the middle), create new energy and new matter, 4 & 6. The same process is repeated. 3rd force of the triad becomes 1st force of the next triad (In a descending octave), this explains the positions of the numbers below. (pgs 170-173)
The second triad: 2 (the higher) + 6(blends with the lower) + 4*(to actualize the middle) = H12
The third triad: 4*(the middle then becomes 1st force for the next triad) + 12 + 8 = H24
4th triad: 8 + 24 + 16 = H48
5th triad: 16 + 48 + 32 = H96
6th triad: 32 + 96 + 64 = H192
7th triad: 64 + 192 + 128 = H384
8th triad: 128 + 384 + 256 = H768
9th triad: 256 + 768 + 512 = H1536
10th triad: 512 + 1536 + 1024 = H3072
11th triad: 1024 + 3072 + 2048 = H6144
12th triad: 2048 + 6144 + 4096 = H12288
This is abbreviated, doesn't give the full table, but this represents all the matter and energy from The Absolute to our universe. And these "numbers" represent the worlds Seth discusses. And these worlds exist right here, they interpenetrate our world. Acessing them is like tuning to a certain frequency, but the appropriate receiving apparatus does not come automatically, like the physical body at birth.
These represent descending octaves, involution, which is mechanical in nature.
Man's path starts with the lower end, H12288, and ascends via ascending octaves, transforming energy into finer vibrations, finer Hydrogens, "separating the fine from the coarse", this is the evolution of consciousness, which can never be mechanical in nature, only conscious.
Like we have to have a physical body to experience and sense the material world, to experience the higher worlds, we have to have a body formed from the material of the upper worlds. This, is the evolution of consciousness.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jul 22, 2017 11:15:51 GMT -5
"About the disappearance there of just that practice of certain beings becoming Initiates-of-Art I know very well, because just before my departure forever from that planet I had to elucidate this very carefully for another aim of mine.
And for the purpose of making this clear, I even specially prepared a very good 'Tiklunia' from among the beings of the female sex and made these elucidations of mine through her.
Tilkunias were formerly called there 'phthonesses' but contemporary ones are now called 'mediums'.
So then, I made it clear that there in most recent times only four of such beings, Initiates-of-Art, still remained...".
pg 518 Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson, 1950, G Gurdjieff
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jul 22, 2017 15:25:25 GMT -5
Back to The Table of Hydrogens
Gurdjieff says that H6 and H12 are irresolvable for man "within the limits of our ordinary powers and capacities", that is, play no part in the being of ordinary man. So Gurdjieff says we can remove these from consideration. He does this to simplify the table, by removing the two lowest designations, H6144 and H12288, and calling the first Hydrogen 1 instead of 6, IOW, he makes a substitution of numbers.
G
The simplified table: H1, H6, H12, H24, H48, H96, H192, H384, H768, H1536, H3072 (Again, to be clear, he has removed H6 and H12, not H6144 and H12288, which he now calls H1536 and H3072 [this becomes important only later, and only if a question arises which needs answering]).
He then says: "The scale obtained in this way from 1 to 3072 can serve for us the study of man. All matters from 'hydrogen' 6 to 'hydrogen' 3072 are to be found and play a part in the human organism. Each of these 'hydrogens' includes a very large group of chemical substances known to us, linked together by some function in connection with our organism. In other words, it must not be forgotten that the term 'hydrogen' has a very wide meaning. Any simple element is a 'hydrogen' of a certain density, but any combination of elements which possesses a definite function, either in the world or in the human organism, is also a 'hydrogen' ".
H768 is defined as food. Substances which cannot serve as food, such as wood, refer to H1536. Iron is H3072. H384 is water. H192 is the air we breathe. H96 refers to the gases we cannot breathe.
"H96 ends what is called matter or what is regarded as matter by our physics and chemistry. 'Hydrogens' 48, 24, 12 and 6 are matters unknown to physics and chemistry, matters of our psychic and spiritual life on different levels".
"The 'table of hydrogens' makes it possible to examine all substances making up man's organism from the point of view of their relation to different planes of the universe. And as every function of man is a result of the action of definite substances, and as each substance is connected with a definite plane of the universe, this fact enables us to establish the relation between man's functions and the planes of the universe".
That was Gurdjieff. And then Ouspensky speaks:
Upon me personally the "table of hydrogens" produced a very strong impression which, later on, was to become still stronger. I felt in this "ladder reaching from heaven to earth" something very like the sensations of the world which came to me several years before during my strange experiments which I felt so strongly the connectedness, the wholeness, and the "mathematicalness" of everything in the world. (footnote: written about in A New Model of the Universe, ch 8, "Experimental Mysticism"). This lecture, with different variations, was repeated many times, that is, either in connection with the explanation of the "ray of creation" or in connection with the explanation of the law of octaves".
pgs 172 - 177 In Search of the Miraculous, 1949, PD Ouspensky
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Post by zin on Jul 22, 2017 20:36:30 GMT -5
How about having an empty alert attention (an advice I hear a lot).. Is it the result of a wish (to have it) or not? Maybe the word 'know' was a problem? There isn't an emphasis on it (in my case). Empty Alert Attention is a very solid foundation for gnosis of what is....its also a good foundation from which to effectively and beautifully create. I've had a fascinating adventure over the last year exploring and experimenting with being (to some extent) creative about what IS. Principly I have found a couple effective means that in practice are an extension of some of the "spiritual" practices that happen with people on the enlightenment seeking path. In some cases I develop a very clear vision of some thing or circumstance thatI want to manifest, and then having brought into crystal clearfocus that vision, surrender into the ever present universal sound until I am in a kind of samadhi state, then very deliberately drawforth that vision from within the vibration of thatuUmiversal Sound....which for me is always present as a kind of ringing in the ears, and everywhere else when attention is given to it lol. Another Method is to simply be in still empty alertness and in that state of pure ISNESS where everything that is experience just IS, with no meaning, no conceptualization, it just simply IS. and from that state sort of CHOOSE what simply, and and utterly just IS. the latter is somewhat more difficult in practice, but I am pretty sure its the state in which Christ operated in when creating with a faith of absolute certainty some of what many considered to be miracles to the un-initiated for Jesus Christ there was no meaning or logic or illogic to walking on water...it simply IS when it IS lol thats humanity utilizing and demonstrating the peak of known human capacity to create or channel creation Thank you! I can visualize the first method a bit but the second sounds more difficult (as you say). I (my mind) try to put limitations on the explanation.. like "is there a seeing of several possibilities? and then choosing?" or "does it come out of necessity, like when trying to solve a problem?".. But it might just be tmt.. I, on the other hand, may be looking for a 'foundation for gnosis of what is'.. My not much intentional attempts at creation (?) are indirect. It is like I am trying to create time and space in which I can look for answers to my questions. Sometimes it is wishing for 5-10 mins of intervals in the daily events - in which I can listen to some call in me, and the intervals happen. And sometimes it is a wish for wider inner space.. it's like I am myself building a scene in which I will feel like 'I have a certain direction to go'. But these are new things for me. |
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Post by zin on Jul 22, 2017 21:17:56 GMT -5
That's one way of looking at it. Another way of looking at it is that that's what keeps creation going. As A-H say, having new fresh unfulfilled desires is as good as it gets. That's what we all live for. Completely agree ;-) though there is a moment in the search for some kind of unbound absolute that search and the yearning...the desire itsepf gets in the way....though that whole paradigm of living and exploration is a pretty small, though significant exception to what you wrote lol Search and yearning.. and desire itself gets in the way.. This brought to my mind a question: Have you felt like you were being pulled by the other end of yearning, as if by gravity, and then it stopped and it was like you came to some plateau? I often say "too bad! that's the end!" but then some thoughts come to my mind, like I shouldn't be dependent on states of yearning, etc. I wonder if this is the opposite of surrender. |
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Post by zin on Jul 22, 2017 21:22:09 GMT -5
Back to The Table of Hydrogens (...) "The 'table of hydrogens' makes it possible to examine all substances making up man's organism from the point of view of their relation to different planes of the universe. And as every function of man is a result of the action of definite substances, and as each substance is connected with a definite plane of the universe, this fact enables us to establish the relation between man's functions and the planes of the universe". That was Gurdjieff. And then Ouspensky speaks: Upon me personally the "table of hydrogens" produced a very strong impression which, later on, was to become still stronger. I felt in this "ladder reaching from heaven to earth" something very like the sensations of the world which came to me several years before during my strange experiments which I felt so strongly the connectedness, the wholeness, and the "mathematicalness" of everything in the world. (footnote: written about in A New Model of the Universe, ch 8, "Experimental Mysticism"). This lecture, with different variations, was repeated many times, that is, either in connection with the explanation of the "ray of creation" or in connection with the explanation of the law of octaves". pgs 172 - 177 In Search of the Miraculous, 1949, PD Ouspensky I swear I have never noticed those 'planes of universe' words there! Thank you for the quote. |
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Post by zin on Jul 22, 2017 21:29:23 GMT -5
When the Seth quotes thread started last year I liked most of them, but separately -- I wasn't aware that they belonged to a whole system of explanations. Now this year, maybe because of some change in 'sense of self' in me I got quite interested! The 'some change': After several periods of what may be called dissociation I feel like there is some more space in my mind and I became interested in reading about 'conscious mind'. In the Seth book I read many parts on how one will not be a slave to things which are 'buried in the unconscious' if one examines his beliefs. This kind of thing sounds simple and sane to me.  I don't think on whether it was 'channeled' or not. A-H say it often that the mere exposure to their recordings, the mere listening will cause an expansion of your beingness and understanding. Seth says something similar about his material. And this is absolutely true. I've been listening to the A-H stuff for almost a decade and the concepts and insights that to me feel somehow natural and arrived at in an organic way to some others here feel totally weird and alien, like channeling and vibration and stuff. I've just finished Seth's early sessions (9 books!) and it feels to me like I've covered several decades of inner development in a couple of months just by reading those sessions. When the time is right, it will happen with ease and in no time. As you've said, the Seth quote thread is from last year, I've read several Seth books at the time, but it didn't really register. The time wasn't right. I'll have to read them again. But this time I read the with ease and ten times the speed. Really fascinating how that works. Something a bit related: Sometimes they say about Beelzebub's Tales (Gurdjieff's book) that new paragraphs appear in it by time : ) I get quite astonished at how I skip things and the next year I say "but this is about this and this!!"  |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jul 23, 2017 7:25:57 GMT -5
A-H say it often that the mere exposure to their recordings, the mere listening will cause an expansion of your beingness and understanding. Seth says something similar about his material. And this is absolutely true. I've been listening to the A-H stuff for almost a decade and the concepts and insights that to me feel somehow natural and arrived at in an organic way to some others here feel totally weird and alien, like channeling and vibration and stuff. I've just finished Seth's early sessions (9 books!) and it feels to me like I've covered several decades of inner development in a couple of months just by reading those sessions. When the time is right, it will happen with ease and in no time. As you've said, the Seth quote thread is from last year, I've read several Seth books at the time, but it didn't really register. The time wasn't right. I'll have to read them again. But this time I read the with ease and ten times the speed. Really fascinating how that works. Something a bit related: Sometimes they say about Beelzebub's Tales (Gurdjieff's book) that new paragraphs appear in it by time : ) I get quite astonished at how I skip things and the next year I say "but this is about this and this!!" By the second sentence do you mean you finds something new in it every time you read it? Yes, but more-so for one who is working. |
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Post by maxdprophet on Jul 23, 2017 7:47:20 GMT -5
Something a bit related: Sometimes they say about Beelzebub's Tales (Gurdjieff's book) that new paragraphs appear in it by time : ) I get quite astonished at how I skip things and the next year I say "but this is about this and this!!" By the second sentence do you mean you finds something new in it every time you read it? Yes, but more-so for one who is working. My guess is that the same effect is true for anything based in the abstract/metaphysical with sufficiently undefined metaphors and allegories. Not saying that is bad. Like good art, it's a dynamic between the art and the audience. |
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Post by steven on Jul 30, 2017 1:41:18 GMT -5
In some cases I develop a very clear vision of some thing or circumstance thatI want to manifest, and then having brought into crystal clearfocus that vision, surrender into the ever present universal sound until I am in a kind of samadhi state, then very deliberately drawforth that vision from within the vibration of thatuUmiversal Sound....which for me is always present as a kind of ringing in the ears, and everywhere else when attention is given to it lol. Hey Steve, you're back! Been a couple of years hasn't it? Can you give an example of something that you successfully manifested?I was initially confused by the two different aspects to your post here between desiring some preferred outcome and accepting what is, but after mulling that around for a bit I saw that the first is about 'putting it out there' for some future state, and the other is about being happy with the present. I typically only find myself doing this kind of thing in relation to work. I have a pretty difficult job. I am a turnaround specialist, so I go into companies that are often in trouble, and often disfunctional owners and management teams that are the issue. I get two days to come up with a viable plan to turn the company around, get all the disfunctional owners and managers to agree to that plan, then get them to sign a contract agreeing to pay us $100,000 to $500,000 to do the work. There many instances where the case seems totally impossible without the slightest sliver of hope...no path to fixing the company, with completely entrenched owners that are utterly attached to not changing or doing anything any differently than they have always done, and/or implacable in their commitment to be adviserial with the other owners etc. if I am there then I am often the last hope to save 100 people's jobs though, so failure is not an option. In those cases, where there seems to be no path forward, no solution to be found....thats when I go off on my own and get a very clear picture of the positive OUTCOME in great detail, then use those manifestation methods to manifest that outcome. So basically I find myself motivated to do that kind of thing when the outcome is consequential to a lot of people's lives, and the path forward seems impossible. Basically when a small miracle is needed and that miracle will help people. 😂😂😂 oh there is the parking thing lol We frequently manifest what the Miss's calls rockstar parking 😂😂😂 |
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Post by Peter on Jul 31, 2017 14:00:26 GMT -5
oh there is the parking thing lol We frequently manifest what the Misses calls rockstar parking 😂😂😂 We give thanks to a character known as "The Travel Fairy" for those in my house  His/Her responsibilities cover such diverse arrangements as flights, hotels, restaurants and common-or-garden parking spaces. |
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Post by steven on Aug 2, 2017 20:56:03 GMT -5
oh there is the parking thing lol We frequently manifest what the Miss's calls rockstar parking 😂😂😂 We give thanks to a character known as "The Travel Fairy" for those in my house His/Her responsibilities cover such diverse arrangements as flights, hotels, restaurants and common-or-garden parking spaces. Haha thats awesome 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻😂 |
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I don't think on whether it was 'channeled' or not. 
His/Her responsibilities cover such diverse arrangements as flights, hotels, restaurants and common-or-garden parking spaces.