Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2017 5:14:01 GMT -5
Bakk, with your new avatar, I always think you are Lolly!   Yeah I was thinking that too! |
|
|
|
Post by stardustpilgrim on Jul 11, 2017 13:24:49 GMT -5
Well, I think we have to make a distinction here between SR and ND. I would say Seth and A-H would say ND is a given. The "modern" SR seem to negate the relevancy and meaning of the manifest universe, duality. The SR seem to be saying, OK, the party's over, the great riddle is solved, let's just put all the toys back in the box. Gurdjieff wrote about Oneness and Unity, but ATST he saw a purpose for the manifest universe. IOW, the "game" is about consciousness evolving, not ~all about~ SR. An analogy, everything on your computer is constructed merely by 1's and 0's. (We could say 1 = manifest, circuit on; 0 = unmanifest, circuit off). Now, does knowing that negate everything, negate all the information on your computer, negate all the internet and negate all the people connected via the internet? That's what the "modern" SR seem to be saying, since All Is One, that negates two-ness, duality. So if one is SR, duality is superfluous. That's the divide I see between the consciousness evolves bunch and the consciousness does not evolve bunch. The SR are pretty adamant about this question, saying consciousness does not evolve, and if you think it does, you are just plain simply wrong. And I would say the problem in physics is directly related, everybody is looking for a TOE, Theory of Oneness. Maybe there is a TOE, maybe there can't be, because it takes 1's and 0's to ~make the universe~, maybe it takes two fundamental laws to make the universe. Maybe the wave-particle problem cannot be solved ~in this universe~. How can something be both wave and particle simultaneously? Maybe it takes a higher dimension. Maybe the question of the differences between General Relativity and quantum mechanics will never be resolved, from our POV. Yes, they both say that there is no separation. Seth talks about open and closed systems. He says that all closed systems only seem that way. In reality there are no closed systems. It's all one. And system here can mean an atom, a cell, an organ, a human being, a nation, a solar system or a universe, an ego or a self or an entity etc. According to Seth, the purpose of consciousness (or energy) is to know itself (or to experience itself). And that's the driving force behind any creation. SDP, keep in mind that SR is just one side of the coin. If you've only got a reference for SR, realization is not complete. It can result in a rather unbalanced view of things. The other side of the coin is CC. Arguing solely from a SR perspective (see Satch) is as unbalanced a view as solely arguing from a CC perspective (see Tenka). The two belong together. From the perspective of self, SR and CC are earth-shattering and somehow final because they change self's perspective once and for all. From the perspective of Self, they are just the beginning, because they just represent an opening to a larger reality, similar to a prison break. It's true that All-That-Is in terms of basic reality, is what it is. But it's also true that All-That-Is in terms of self-expression is constantly changing and evolving. Seth once said, if you are probing into matter you will eventually arrive at All-That-Is. And if you are probing into All-That-Is, you will eventually arrive at matter.
What you have to ask the SR folks is "Okay, self is an illusion. But it's still there. Duality is still there. You are still focused in it. It's still your experience. Now what?" Yes. But they generally say, you just do the next thing. But yes, a very good question, if self is an illusion, how can you now ~operate~ from a sense of self (you remember where you live, and drive back there every day) that you know is an illusion. I guess that's what I don't get. How does anybody SR operate from a separate sense of self that they know isn't a separate sense of self? And most seem to accept that you live and die and at death, that's the end of the illusory separate self. However, Reefs obviously doesn't ~believe~ death is the end, as the Seth material is obviously significant for you. How does ~believing that~ the self continues after death, influence your life now? For Gurdjieff, what one is, most basically, is potential. He invited people to depart from being stuck in a cul-de-sac, and activate their potential. Potential means there is something that not-now-is. Very nice post. |
|
|
|
Post by zin on Jul 12, 2017 21:39:19 GMT -5
Thank you for this Seth quote! Especially the part about Buddha, Christ, and Michelangelo is the most beautiful thing I read (heard) from him until now. And it reminded me of something from Gurdjieff teachings. I don't have a wish to mix the two materials but still I will think a bit on it and will write soon. (and will return to electric universe, too) When I started reading Seth, I was just curious where he would agree or disagree with A-H. Now I'm deeply involved in the Seth material and it's been a fascinating journey so far. It put A-H and even non-duality into a new perspective. And since Seth gives it all a somewhat scientific basis, I think it's going to convince even the more skeptical folks. Although Seth is talking about reincarnation, different planes of existence and channeling and telepathy all the time, he does hate the mainstream new age stuff with a passion. (That's why I think Laughter will love Seth) So I'd say, if you can see some links to other teachers, then this can only be helpful for further and deeper understanding, especially if they have their own unique vocabulary. When the Seth quotes thread started last year I liked most of them, but separately -- I wasn't aware that they belonged to a whole system of explanations. Now this year, maybe because of some change in 'sense of self' in me I got quite interested! The 'some change': After several periods of what may be called dissociation I feel like there is some more space in my mind and I became interested in reading about 'conscious mind'. In the Seth book I read many parts on how one will not be a slave to things which are 'buried in the unconscious' if one examines his beliefs. This kind of thing sounds simple and sane to me.  I don't think on whether it was 'channeled' or not. |
|
|
|
Post by zin on Jul 12, 2017 21:47:02 GMT -5
Everything just IS If you want to add to that then be creative about what IS I am curious about creativity. I usually hear it about either art products or attracting desired circumstances. But I wish to know about unknown unknowns. I guess I should've made a search about this expression but I wrote it anyway : ) |
|
|
|
Post by zendancer on Jul 12, 2017 22:41:42 GMT -5
Yes, they both say that there is no separation. Seth talks about open and closed systems. He says that all closed systems only seem that way. In reality there are no closed systems. It's all one. And system here can mean an atom, a cell, an organ, a human being, a nation, a solar system or a universe, an ego or a self or an entity etc. According to Seth, the purpose of consciousness (or energy) is to know itself (or to experience itself). And that's the driving force behind any creation. SDP, keep in mind that SR is just one side of the coin. If you've only got a reference for SR, realization is not complete. It can result in a rather unbalanced view of things. The other side of the coin is CC. Arguing solely from a SR perspective (see Satch) is as unbalanced a view as solely arguing from a CC perspective (see Tenka). The two belong together. From the perspective of self, SR and CC are earth-shattering and somehow final because they change self's perspective once and for all. From the perspective of Self, they are just the beginning, because they just represent an opening to a larger reality, similar to a prison break. It's true that All-That-Is in terms of basic reality, is what it is. But it's also true that All-That-Is in terms of self-expression is constantly changing and evolving. Seth once said, if you are probing into matter you will eventually arrive at All-That-Is. And if you are probing into All-That-Is, you will eventually arrive at matter.
What you have to ask the SR folks is "Okay, self is an illusion. But it's still there. Duality is still there. You are still focused in it. It's still your experience. Now what?" Yes. But they generally say, you just do the next thing. But yes, a very good question, if self is an illusion, how can you now ~operate~ from a sense of self (you remember where you live, and drive back there every day) that you know is an illusion. I guess that's what I don't get. How does anybody SR operate from a separate sense of self that they know isn't a separate sense of self? And most seem to accept that you live and die and at death, that's the end of the illusory separate self. However, Reefs obviously doesn't ~believe~ death is the end, as the Seth material is obviously significant for you. How does ~believing that~ the self continues after death, influence your life now? For Gurdjieff, what one is, most basically, is potential. He invited people to depart from being stuck in a cul-de-sac, and activate their potential. Potential means there is something that not-now-is. Very nice post. There's a difference between "what is" and ideas about "what is." Discovering this difference is what Zen people call "passing through the gateless gate." Everyone thinks they know what a tree is, but after passing through the gateless gate, one discerns the difference between the idea of a tree and what a tree really is. It's common to hear people say that the map is not the territory, but few people understand what this means at a deep existential level. Trees do not disappear after their isness is apprehended. ITSW, the body/mind does not disappear after SR, but it is never related to or thought about in the same way afterwards. In fact, it's the habit of self-referential thinking that is most altered by SR. For many people prior to SR it feels as if there is an entity inside the body --a "me"--relating to a world outside the body, but after the thought structure supporting that imaginary entity collapses, the ideas relating to that entity also collapse. Life goes on, but it is not remotely as self-referential as before. The body/mind is then seen and understood as isness in action; this is how reality manifests--going to the grocery story to buy food or filling the car up with gas or having dinner with friends. The illusion has collapsed, along with past ideas about the illusion, but the living reality remains clear and undisguised. ND is a path that leads to freedom from the mind. The Buddha's parable about living in the Now points to this issue (as do all of his parables). A guy is halfway down a cliff trying to escape a tiger on top of the cliff. He looks below and sees a tiger waiting for him there. The Buddha's disciples asked, "What did he do?" The Buddha replied, "He happened to notice a wild strawberry growing out of a cleft in the rock beside him, so he plucked it and ate it." The disciples then asked, "What happened then?" The Buddha replied, "The strawberry tasted good." haha. Jesus taught the same kinds of parables. Asking existential questions is like a disease of the mind. If the mind is quiescent, life becomes incredibly simple and direct. We do whatever we have to do, and then we do the next thing that we have to do. I agree with Reefs that a CC experience greatly expands one's understanding, and can result in numerous important realizations. For one thing, life and death are then seen as trivial in comparison to the vastness and ineffability of THAT. Everything has been taken care of, and the entire universe is operating perfectly in accord with an intelligence too vast to comprehend. Seeing THAT, one can relax and simply be an aspect of THAT in action. Each human is like a drop of water in an ocean. One glimpse of the ocean puts everything into perspective. It's like there's a primary program running everything below the surface of all ideas. The only thing obscuring the apprehension of the perfection are ideas. Understanding of this can only occur after the non-conceptual realization of the underlying reality. |
|
|
|
Post by steven on Jul 13, 2017 2:37:09 GMT -5
Everything just IS If you want to add to that then be creative about what IS I am curious about creativity. I usually hear it about either art products or attracting desired circumstances. But I wish to know about unknown unknowns. I guess I should've made a search about this expression but I wrote it anyway : ) Wishing to know about unknown unknowns is the surest way to fill up the glass so full that nothing else can fit... |
|
|
|
Post by stardustpilgrim on Jul 13, 2017 10:23:59 GMT -5
Yes. But they generally say, you just do the next thing. But yes, a very good question, if self is an illusion, how can you now ~operate~ from a sense of self (you remember where you live, and drive back there every day) that you know is an illusion. I guess that's what I don't get. How does anybody SR operate from a separate sense of self that they know isn't a separate sense of self? And most seem to accept that you live and die and at death, that's the end of the illusory separate self. However, Reefs obviously doesn't ~believe~ death is the end, as the Seth material is obviously significant for you. How does ~believing that~ the self continues after death, influence your life now? For Gurdjieff, what one is, most basically, is potential. He invited people to depart from being stuck in a cul-de-sac, and activate their potential. Potential means there is something that not-now-is. Very nice post. There's a difference between "what is" and ideas about "what is." Discovering this difference is what Zen people call "passing through the gateless gate." Everyone thinks they know what a tree is, but after passing through the gateless gate, one discerns the difference between the idea of a tree and what a tree really is. It's common to hear people say that the map is not the territory, but few people understand what this means at a deep existential level. Trees do not disappear after their isness is apprehended. ITSW, the body/mind does not disappear after SR, but it is never related to or thought about in the same way afterwards. In fact, it's the habit of self-referential thinking that is most altered by SR. For many people prior to SR it feels as if there is an entity inside the body --a "me"--relating to a world outside the body, but after the thought structure supporting that imaginary entity collapses, the ideas relating to that entity also collapse. Life goes on, but it is not remotely as self-referential as before. The body/mind is then seen and understood as isness in action; this is how reality manifests--going to the grocery story to buy food or filling the car up with gas or having dinner with friends. The illusion has collapsed, along with past ideas about the illusion, but the living reality remains clear and undisguised. ND is a path that leads to freedom from the mind. The Buddha's parable about living in the Now points to this issue (as do all of his parables). A guy is halfway down a cliff trying to escape a tiger on top of the cliff. He looks below and sees a tiger waiting for him there. The Buddha's disciples asked, "What did he do?" The Buddha replied, "He happened to notice a wild strawberry growing out of a cleft in the rock beside him, so he plucked it and ate it." The disciples then asked, "What happened then?" The Buddha replied, "The strawberry tasted good." haha. Jesus taught the same kinds of parables. Asking existential questions is like a disease of the mind. If the mind is quiescent, life becomes incredibly simple and direct. We do whatever we have to do, and then we do the next thing that we have to do. I agree with Reefs that a CC experience greatly expands one's understanding, and can result in numerous important realizations. For one thing, life and death are then seen as trivial in comparison to the vastness and ineffability of THAT. Everything has been taken care of, and the entire universe is operating perfectly in accord with an intelligence too vast to comprehend. Seeing THAT, one can relax and simply be an aspect of THAT in action. Each human is like a drop of water in an ocean. One glimpse of the ocean puts everything into perspective. It's like there's a primary program running everything below the surface of all ideas. The only thing obscuring the apprehension of the perfection are ideas. Understanding of this can only occur after the non-conceptual realization of the underlying reality. , but what is the role of the individuation in relation to That? Maybe the Whole forms people because that's the best way to get certain things done. Did Einstein ~just happen~, or did the universe, at a point of creativity, form an Einstein? Maybe the universe needs pockets of intelligence, maybe that's the whole reason for peopling. Maybe peopling creates these pockets of intelligence the universe gets no other way. Spoken to more on the Enlightenment vs Purification thread, last post page ten. |
|
|
|
Post by Reefs on Jul 13, 2017 10:35:34 GMT -5
Yes. But they generally say, you just do the next thing. But yes, a very good question, if self is an illusion, how can you now ~operate~ from a sense of self (you remember where you live, and drive back there every day) that you know is an illusion. I guess that's what I don't get. How does anybody SR operate from a separate sense of self that they know isn't a separate sense of self? And most seem to accept that you live and die and at death, that's the end of the illusory separate self. However, Reefs obviously doesn't ~believe~ death is the end, as the Seth material is obviously significant for you. How does ~believing that~ the self continues after death, influence your life now? For Gurdjieff, what one is, most basically, is potential. He invited people to depart from being stuck in a cul-de-sac, and activate their potential. Potential means there is something that not-now-is. Very nice post. Keep in mind that it is the inner self that is running the show, the inner self is writing the script and and is also constructing and maintaining the stage. The ego is just put center stage by the inner self to play out the script. But the ego isn't aware of that. The ego thinks it's all its own creation and responsibility and gets caught up in that misconception. The startling realization that this is not so, is what we call SR. It is accompanied by an enormous sense of relief which often turns into outright laughter (for days in some cases) at this hilarious misconception that had been bought into hook line and sinker. All those headaches for nothing! Absolutely meaningless! What a joke! Now, the other side of the coin is that Source is all there is and so not only is the entity and the inner ego an extension of Source, but also the ego. The distinctions are arbitrary and only make sense in a certain context, because wherever you look, there is only Source. And it is alive. It is conscious. The former distinctions made by the ego between animate and inanimate, between I vs the others suddenly disappear. There is only Source, there is only YOU. Whatever you look at, you are basically looking at yourself. That's the realization we call CC. It is accompanied by a tremendous sense of awe and it is a very humbling experience. It will leave you in deep silence. So death looked at from the SR perspective means there's been a misconception, the one that feared death never really existed. And so it just falls by the wayside, together with a whole lot of other existential dilemmas that where all based on that misconception or misidentification. From the CC perspective, however, the whole concept of death doesn't make sense in the first place. And so the issue doesn't even arise. So this interest in the Seth material is more or less an intellectual interest. I'm not really interested in any past or future lives. The game has been seen for what it is. But there's now there's an interest to thoroughly enjoy the game, to play it well and skilfully. And that's where Seth and A-H can help. You often hear in spiritual circles that this earth is some kind of classroom or training place for souls. I always found that to be a rather silly concept. However, just recently I realized why people see it that way. There was a session where Seth's entity was speaking (Seth II) and they were talking about why this camouflage place exists the way it exists. And long story short, it's a place for emerging consciousnesses to acquaint themselves with how creation works in very elementary sense. |
|
|
|
Post by Reefs on Jul 13, 2017 10:58:25 GMT -5
Yes, but what is the role of the individuation in relation to That? Maybe the Whole forms people because that's the best way to get certain things done. Did Einstein ~just happen~, or did the universe, at a point of creativity, form an Einstein? Maybe the universe needs pockets of intelligence, maybe that's the whole reason for peopling. Maybe peopling creates these pockets of intelligence the universe gets no other way. Spoken to more on the Enlightenment vs Purification thread, last post page ten. All-That-Is is experiencing itself thru people peeps. That's how All-That-Is gets to know itself. People peeps are just one possible avenue. Just as an aside, I came across a session where Seth (or Seth II?) was talking about God's dream and the story is a little different from Enigma's story. In Enigma's story, God falls into his own dream, in Seth's story, God releases his dream figures. ETA: From the perspective of the outer ego, reincarnation may seem like some kind of torture, from the perspective of the inner self (or Source), it's something very much anticipated. A-H often say, if you only knew how much you wanted to be in these bodies, you wouldn't try so hard to get out of them. Truly words of wisdom. |
|
|
|
Post by Reefs on Jul 13, 2017 11:10:26 GMT -5
When I started reading Seth, I was just curious where he would agree or disagree with A-H. Now I'm deeply involved in the Seth material and it's been a fascinating journey so far. It put A-H and even non-duality into a new perspective. And since Seth gives it all a somewhat scientific basis, I think it's going to convince even the more skeptical folks. Although Seth is talking about reincarnation, different planes of existence and channeling and telepathy all the time, he does hate the mainstream new age stuff with a passion. (That's why I think Laughter will love Seth) So I'd say, if you can see some links to other teachers, then this can only be helpful for further and deeper understanding, especially if they have their own unique vocabulary. When the Seth quotes thread started last year I liked most of them, but separately -- I wasn't aware that they belonged to a whole system of explanations. Now this year, maybe because of some change in 'sense of self' in me I got quite interested! The 'some change': After several periods of what may be called dissociation I feel like there is some more space in my mind and I became interested in reading about 'conscious mind'. In the Seth book I read many parts on how one will not be a slave to things which are 'buried in the unconscious' if one examines his beliefs. This kind of thing sounds simple and sane to me. I don't think on whether it was 'channeled' or not. A-H say it often that the mere exposure to their recordings, the mere listening will cause an expansion of your beingness and understanding. Seth says something similar about his material. And this is absolutely true. I've been listening to the A-H stuff for almost a decade and the concepts and insights that to me feel somehow natural and arrived at in an organic way to some others here feel totally weird and alien, like channeling and vibration and stuff. I've just finished Seth's early sessions (9 books!) and it feels to me like I've covered several decades of inner development in a couple of months just by reading those sessions. When the time is right, it will happen with ease and in no time. As you've said, the Seth quote thread is from last year, I've read several Seth books at the time, but it didn't really register. The time wasn't right. I'll have to read them again. But this time I read the with ease and ten times the speed. Really fascinating how that works. |
|
|
|
Post by Reefs on Jul 13, 2017 11:16:59 GMT -5
I am curious about creativity. I usually hear it about either art products or attracting desired circumstances. But I wish to know about unknown unknowns. I guess I should've made a search about this expression but I wrote it anyway : ) Wishing to know about unknown unknowns is the surest way to fill up the glass so full that nothing else can fit... That's one way of looking at it. Another way of looking at it is that that's what keeps creation going. As A-H say, having new fresh unfulfilled desires is as good as it gets. That's what we all live for. |
|
|
|
Post by zendancer on Jul 13, 2017 12:19:44 GMT -5
There's a difference between "what is" and ideas about "what is." Discovering this difference is what Zen people call "passing through the gateless gate." Everyone thinks they know what a tree is, but after passing through the gateless gate, one discerns the difference between the idea of a tree and what a tree really is. It's common to hear people say that the map is not the territory, but few people understand what this means at a deep existential level. Trees do not disappear after their isness is apprehended. ITSW, the body/mind does not disappear after SR, but it is never related to or thought about in the same way afterwards. In fact, it's the habit of self-referential thinking that is most altered by SR. For many people prior to SR it feels as if there is an entity inside the body --a "me"--relating to a world outside the body, but after the thought structure supporting that imaginary entity collapses, the ideas relating to that entity also collapse. Life goes on, but it is not remotely as self-referential as before. The body/mind is then seen and understood as isness in action; this is how reality manifests--going to the grocery story to buy food or filling the car up with gas or having dinner with friends. The illusion has collapsed, along with past ideas about the illusion, but the living reality remains clear and undisguised. ND is a path that leads to freedom from the mind. The Buddha's parable about living in the Now points to this issue (as do all of his parables). A guy is halfway down a cliff trying to escape a tiger on top of the cliff. He looks below and sees a tiger waiting for him there. The Buddha's disciples asked, "What did he do?" The Buddha replied, "He happened to notice a wild strawberry growing out of a cleft in the rock beside him, so he plucked it and ate it." The disciples then asked, "What happened then?" The Buddha replied, "The strawberry tasted good." haha. Jesus taught the same kinds of parables. Asking existential questions is like a disease of the mind. If the mind is quiescent, life becomes incredibly simple and direct. We do whatever we have to do, and then we do the next thing that we have to do. I agree with Reefs that a CC experience greatly expands one's understanding, and can result in numerous important realizations. For one thing, life and death are then seen as trivial in comparison to the vastness and ineffability of THAT. Everything has been taken care of, and the entire universe is operating perfectly in accord with an intelligence too vast to comprehend. Seeing THAT, one can relax and simply be an aspect of THAT in action. Each human is like a drop of water in an ocean. One glimpse of the ocean puts everything into perspective. It's like there's a primary program running everything below the surface of all ideas. The only thing obscuring the apprehension of the perfection are ideas. Understanding of this can only occur after the non-conceptual realization of the underlying reality. , but what is the role of the individuation in relation to That? Maybe the Whole forms people because that's the best way to get certain things done. Did Einstein ~just happen~, or did the universe, at a point of creativity, form an Einstein? Maybe the universe needs pockets of intelligence, maybe that's the whole reason for peopling. Maybe peopling creates these pockets of intelligence the universe gets no other way. Spoken to more on the Enlightenment vs Purification thread, last post page ten. The individuation and THAT are one and the same, so there is no relationship. In order for there to be a relationship there must be two, and there's not. The role of the individuation/THAT is to write these words, and then do whatever has to be done next. This is how what we are/THAT manifests. FWIW, the universe does not "need" pockets of intelligence. The whole universe is intelligence in action, and that intelligence is utterly beyond human comprehension. Multiply the intelligence of an Einstein by a billion, and it would be non-existent compared to the intelligence behind the lifting of a single finger. |
|
|
|
Post by runstill on Jul 13, 2017 15:51:32 GMT -5
Yes. But they generally say, you just do the next thing. But yes, a very good question, if self is an illusion, how can you now ~operate~ from a sense of self (you remember where you live, and drive back there every day) that you know is an illusion. I guess that's what I don't get. How does anybody SR operate from a separate sense of self that they know isn't a separate sense of self? And most seem to accept that you live and die and at death, that's the end of the illusory separate self. However, Reefs obviously doesn't ~believe~ death is the end, as the Seth material is obviously significant for you. How does ~believing that~ the self continues after death, influence your life now? For Gurdjieff, what one is, most basically, is potential. He invited people to depart from being stuck in a cul-de-sac, and activate their potential. Potential means there is something that not-now-is. Very nice post. Keep in mind that it is the inner self that is running the show, the inner self is writing the script and and is also constructing and maintaining the stage. The ego is just put center stage by the inner self to play out the script. But the ego isn't aware of that. The ego thinks it's all its own creation and responsibility and gets caught up in that misconception. The startling realization that this is not so, is what we call SR. It is accompanied by an enormous sense of relief which often turns into outright laughter (for days in some cases) at this hilarious misconception that had been bought into hook line and sinker. All those headaches for nothing! Absolutely meaningless! What a joke! Now, the other side of the coin is that Source is all there is and so not only is the entity and the inner ego an extension of Source, but also the ego. The distinctions are arbitrary and only make sense in a certain context, because wherever you look, there is only Source. And it is alive. It is conscious. The former distinctions made by the ego between animate and inanimate, between I vs the others suddenly disappear. There is only Source, there is only YOU. Whatever you look at, you are basically looking at yourself. That's the realization we call CC. It is accompanied by a tremendous sense of awe and it is a very humbling experience. It will leave you in deep silence. So death looked at from the SR perspective means there's been a misconception, the one that feared death never really existed. And so it just falls by the wayside, together with a whole lot of other existential dilemmas that where all based on that misconception or misidentification. From the CC perspective, however, the whole concept of death doesn't make sense in the first place. And so the issue doesn't even arise. So this interest in the Seth material is more or less an intellectual interest. I'm not really interested in any past or future lives. The game has been seen for what it is. But there's now there's an interest to thoroughly enjoy the game, to play it well and skilfully. And that's where Seth and A-H can help. You often hear in spiritual circles that this earth is some kind of classroom or training place for souls. I always found that to be a rather silly concept. However, just recently I realized why people see it that way. There was a session where Seth's entity was speaking (Seth II) and they were talking about why this camouflage place exists the way it exists. And long story short, it's a place for emerging consciousnesses to acquaint themselves with how creation works in very elementary sense. The point made in the bolded I think is important , you never lose your 'you' , even when the separate self ends. |
|
|
|
Post by stardustpilgrim on Jul 13, 2017 16:48:29 GMT -5
Yes. But they generally say, you just do the next thing. But yes, a very good question, if self is an illusion, how can you now ~operate~ from a sense of self (you remember where you live, and drive back there every day) that you know is an illusion. I guess that's what I don't get. How does anybody SR operate from a separate sense of self that they know isn't a separate sense of self? And most seem to accept that you live and die and at death, that's the end of the illusory separate self. However, Reefs obviously doesn't ~believe~ death is the end, as the Seth material is obviously significant for you. How does ~believing that~ the self continues after death, influence your life now? For Gurdjieff, what one is, most basically, is potential. He invited people to depart from being stuck in a cul-de-sac, and activate their potential. Potential means there is something that not-now-is. Very nice post. Keep in mind that it is the inner self that is running the show, the inner self is writing the script and and is also constructing and maintaining the stage. The ego is just put center stage by the inner self to play out the script. But the ego isn't aware of that. The ego thinks it's all its own creation and responsibility and gets caught up in that misconception. The startling realization that this is not so, is what we call SR. It is accompanied by an enormous sense of relief which often turns into outright laughter (for days in some cases) at this hilarious misconception that had been bought into hook line and sinker. All those headaches for nothing! Absolutely meaningless! What a joke! Now, the other side of the coin is that Source is all there is and so not only is the entity and the inner ego an extension of Source, but also the ego. The distinctions are arbitrary and only make sense in a certain context, because wherever you look, there is only Source. And it is alive. It is conscious. The former distinctions made by the ego between animate and inanimate, between I vs the others suddenly disappear. There is only Source, there is only YOU. Whatever you look at, you are basically looking at yourself. That's the realization we call CC. It is accompanied by a tremendous sense of awe and it is a very humbling experience. It will leave you in deep silence. So death looked at from the SR perspective means there's been a misconception, the one that feared death never really existed. And so it just falls by the wayside, together with a whole lot of other existential dilemmas that where all based on that misconception or misidentification. From the CC perspective, however, the whole concept of death doesn't make sense in the first place. And so the issue doesn't even arise. So this interest in the Seth material is more or less an intellectual interest. I'm not really interested in any past or future lives. The game has been seen for what it is. But there's now there's an interest to thoroughly enjoy the game, to play it well and skilfully. And that's where Seth and A-H can help. You often hear in spiritual circles that this earth is some kind of classroom or training place for souls. I always found that to be a rather silly concept. However, just recently I realized why people see it that way. There was a session where Seth's entity was speaking (Seth II) and they were talking about why this camouflage place exists the way it exists. And long story short, it's a place for emerging consciousnesses to acquaint themselves with how creation works in very elementary sense. OK, thanks. |
|
|
|
Post by zin on Jul 17, 2017 20:16:45 GMT -5
I am curious about creativity. I usually hear it about either art products or attracting desired circumstances. But I wish to know about unknown unknowns. I guess I should've made a search about this expression but I wrote it anyway : ) Wishing to know about unknown unknowns is the surest way to fill up the glass so full that nothing else can fit... How about having an empty alert attention (an advice I hear a lot).. Is it the result of a wish (to have it) or not? Maybe the word 'know' was a problem? There isn't an emphasis on it (in my case). |
|
I don't think on whether it was 'channeled' or not.