Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2016 4:55:19 GMT -5
When you go to a restaurant, how do you decide what to order? I eat everything on the menu and order whichever dish I liked most. Unless it's too expensive. If the universe/God is benign, why is there so much suffering in the world? Absolutely. |
|
|
|
Post by zendancer on Dec 13, 2016 6:50:32 GMT -5
And just throwing two more out there. Neither of them is a formal koan, the first one I just made up, the second one is a pretty common existential question. Maybe Steven or ZD can comment on whether they can be considered as koans, or if they could be reformulated into better koans? When you go to a restaurant, how do you decide what to order? If the universe/God is benign, why is there so much suffering in the world? Those are pretty good koans. I'd leave them worded just like that. |
|
|
|
Post by zendancer on Dec 13, 2016 6:54:05 GMT -5
When you go to a restaurant, how do you decide what to order? I eat everything on the menu and order whichever dish I liked most. Unless it's too expensive. If the universe/God is benign, why is there so much suffering in the world? Your premise is faulty. Koans are not answered with logic or intellect. One of my grandfather's favorite riddles was, "What happens when an irresistible force meets an immovable object?" Another way of phrasing the second question is, "Why is there so much suffering in the world?" No assumptions about the nature of God need to be made. |
|
|
|
Post by zendancer on Dec 13, 2016 6:56:56 GMT -5
I eat everything on the menu and order whichever dish I liked most. Unless it's too expensive. Your premise is faulty.Absolutely. This can be said about many koans, but the issue is how to answer such questions definitively without using the mind. Saying that the premise is faulty does not answer the question. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2016 7:34:12 GMT -5
This can be said about many koans, but the issue is how to answer such questions definitively without using the mind. Saying that the premise is faulty does not answer the question. Don't need to answer the question because the premise of the question itself is clearly wrong. I was about to write that but left it but Peter has written it. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2016 7:36:25 GMT -5
I eat everything on the menu and order whichever dish I liked most. Unless it's too expensive. Your premise is faulty. Koans are not answered with logic or intellect. One of my grandfather's favorite riddles was, " What happens when an irresistible force meets an immovable object?" Another way of phrasing the second question is, "Why is there so much suffering in the world?" No assumptions about the nature of God need to be made. Can you make a circle square? Can omniscient God be omnipotent? What's beyond space? These are the questions are meaningless questions including yours as well. Answer is not needed in this place, knowing that question is meaningless is enough. |
|
|
|
Post by zendancer on Dec 13, 2016 9:05:42 GMT -5
Koans are not answered with logic or intellect. One of my grandfather's favorite riddles was, " What happens when an irresistible force meets an immovable object?" Another way of phrasing the second question is, "Why is there so much suffering in the world?" No assumptions about the nature of God need to be made. Can you make a circle square? Can omniscient God be omnipotent? What's beyond space? These are the questions are meaningless questions including yours as well. Answer is not needed in this place, knowing that question is meaningless is enough. Probably only people interested in becoming free of ideas or seeing through the usual grid of ideas will be interested in koans. Some people find it fascinating that the body can answer questions that the mind finds meaningless. Each human being is unique in what s/he finds interesting. |
|
|
|
Post by steven777 on Dec 13, 2016 10:30:23 GMT -5
Koans are not answered with logic or intellect. One of my grandfather's favorite riddles was, " What happens when an irresistible force meets an immovable object?" Another way of phrasing the second question is, "Why is there so much suffering in the world?" No assumptions about the nature of God need to be made. Can you make a circle square? Can omniscient God be omnipotent? What's beyond space? These are the questions are meaningless questions including yours as well. Answer is not needed in this place, knowing that question is meaningless is enough. Knowing anything at all is too much for many of these koans, and misses the point entirely lol...this includes "Knowing" that some are meaningless. What is beyond space? Is a wonderful koan to gnosis this...the answer is neither an answer or a non-answer...the answer is only found in deeply contemplating the koan. |
|
|
|
Post by stardustpilgrim on Dec 13, 2016 13:04:28 GMT -5
One key to koans is to not-think outside the box.  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2016 15:43:14 GMT -5
Yeah well when I do that and being centered and not knowing I just come up with What Is IOW's What Is in this moment is What IS nite  come up with less lol...nite bro Ok the answer I think can be many not one..For example the one unimaginable truth is truth itself you cannot imagine truth The other answer would simply be imagination itself is the unimaginable truth.. So if I got it good if not just as good it is what it IS |
|
|
|
Post by ouroboros on Dec 13, 2016 16:06:28 GMT -5
How many beans make five?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2016 16:35:14 GMT -5
How many beans make five? 1 |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2016 19:05:39 GMT -5
Can you find that with action, not intellect? I think it hasn't been stressed enough in this thread that many koans, or in my limited experience most koans are answered wordlessly by physical action such as gesturing, pantomiming etc. One can get stuck in trying to figure out something to say / some conceptual answer before this has really been internalised, and I think this accounts for some of awakesowhat's struggle. After that is clear it is much easier to get into the groove. So I would recommend that anyone who wants to try to solve some of the other koans in this thread (e.g. awakesowhat), first discovers the correct answer to either of these two koans posted earlier by Zendancer: 1. Set an apple on a table in front of you, and contemplate the question, "What is that, really?" Hint: the answer is not "an apple." 2. How can you greet an enlightened woman if you meet her on the path with neither words nor silence? Oh, and a couple of months ago I started this thread titled " koan contemplation" that contains some further hints/pointers. It was mentioned here.. spiritualteachers.proboards.com/post/384055Though any stressing of it, would truly be going in the opposite direction wouldn't it? |
|
|
|
Post by maxdprophet on Dec 14, 2016 17:01:48 GMT -5
Shuzan held out his short staff and said, “If you call this a short staff, you oppose its reality. If you do not call it a short staff, you ignore the fact. Now what do you wish to call this?” alls I know is that would make an excellent tweet to our next prez |
|
|
|
Post by silver on Dec 20, 2016 23:18:21 GMT -5
If you choke a smurf, what color does it turn?  Does that count as a koan? |
|
