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Post by enigma on May 7, 2016 10:39:45 GMT -5
It's a conclusion from your experience. OK let's skip this argument because I know you are wrong and you think I am wrong both of us surely not going to change view The key to realizing you have concluded something from you experience is noticing when you start drawing conclusions from your experience. |
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Post by laughter on May 7, 2016 11:23:29 GMT -5
Do you notice the difference in what these words mean to you as opposed to tzu' and how you're interpreting them differently from him?  What's your point? How about quoting my whole post. Then you'll have an answer. This is contextual fraud. The whole point is about surrender which you haven't included in my quote. you say??   I answer your complaint with a general denial and counterclaim slander!  |
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Post by laughter on May 7, 2016 11:27:33 GMT -5
Notice the consensus trance conditioning inherent in the naming division of the two systems which could just as easily have been denoted "conscious" and "unconscious". If you had to think about every single breath you take or plan out each contraction of your esophagus to swallow a meatball you'd be far to distracted to ever watch a movie. The shortcut to the existential question is: what is the source of the decision to go bowling? or, more generally, what is the source of thoughts and emotions? You can dissect as many bodies and conspire with as many scientists and refine your theories for as long as you want but eventually every answer you get will come with a dozen new questions. The answer to this question simply isn't, nor will it ever be available to intellect. If anyone is genuinely interested in it, there are all sorts of different suggestions relevant to keeping the mind open, energetic, and uncontracted on the distractions of intellect.  It's ironic that the functions we don't want to pay attention to are called involuntary. You'd figure at least one or two peeps would want to volunteer to have a heartbeat every now and then. |
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Post by laughter on May 7, 2016 11:29:03 GMT -5
Even if 'life' ends, the unfolding of existence does not. The river of life/existence never ceases to flow. Destinations are measurements, whether the destination is SR or the ceasing to function of the body, and these measurements are arbitrary and subjective i.e measured by us, as humans. In reality, there is just a journey, just a river flowing. Seeking is a natural expression and embodiment of this flow. There's no suffering in seeking, but there might be suffering in trying to bring an end to seeking, as any seeker of enlightenment will tell you. Suffering may or may not be the impetus for your assassinated version of seeking. As in he'll suffer for as long as there's this idea that seeking can end?  |
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Post by andrew on May 7, 2016 11:53:16 GMT -5
Suffering may or may not be the impetus for your assassinated version of seeking. As in he'll suffer for as long as there's this idea that seeking can end? organisms don't seek 24 hours a day, for a start, there is deep sleep, but aside from that, there are periods of relaxation (which can take many different forms), and just chilling out. I don't suffer with seeking, I tend to suffer when I stub my toe. |
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2016 12:02:52 GMT -5
OK let's skip this argument because I know you are wrong and you think I am wrong both of us surely not going to change view The key to realizing you have concluded something from you experience is noticing when you start drawing conclusions from your experience. You are very adamant to protect your view, so I will let you to continue to do so! |
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Post by laughter on May 7, 2016 12:16:29 GMT -5
As in he'll suffer for as long as there's this idea that seeking can end? organisms don't seek 24 hours a day, for a start, there is deep sleep, but aside from that, there are periods of relaxation (which can take many different forms), and just chilling out. I don't suffer with seeking, I tend to suffer when I stub my toe. For the most part my seeking was done unconsciously and involved learning and theorizing intellectually and acting and relaxing out in nature and appreciating art, so it didn't seem like suffering to me. As the dude who authored the "Birdman" script put it, it was the "unexpected virtue of ignorance". I guess it would get to be suffering if SR was something that the seeker wanted, because it's not something they can have. |
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Post by andrew on May 7, 2016 12:24:23 GMT -5
organisms don't seek 24 hours a day, for a start, there is deep sleep, but aside from that, there are periods of relaxation (which can take many different forms), and just chilling out. I don't suffer with seeking, I tend to suffer when I stub my toe. For the most part my seeking was done unconsciously and involved learning and theorizing intellectually and acting and relaxing out in nature and appreciating art, so it didn't seem like suffering to me. As the dude who authored the "Birdman" script put it, it was the "unexpected virtue of ignorance". I guess it would get to be suffering if SR was something that the seeker wanted, because it's not something they can have. I tried to watch that film and couldn't get past the first 15 minutes, I think I'll try again sometime. The way I see it, it is attachment to outcomes that comes with suffering, though to be fair, there may be times when it is appropriate to attach to an outcome and just deal with the suffering that comes with that. The good thing about seeking SR/enlightenment is that it can burn off the energy of attachment in general probably far faster than any other pursuit, and that's because there is an intrinsic failure and futility to that particular seeking. We don't get what we want, but the process is still ultimately beneficial. |
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2016 12:40:56 GMT -5
bakk... Regulating means most of the functions of the body do not depend upon conceptual thinking, if you feed it and give it air, the body works itself, this is done by what soundwave is calling the involuntary system. You get this at birth, it can be called the instinctive system. The voluntary system consists of stuff you have learned, so yes, it's what drives a truck, once it has learned to drive a truck. The voluntary system picks up the glass of juice, drinks it. The involuntary system is what tastes it, I think soundwave's point in this was, the taste is not easily described, it's not the 'job' of the involuntary system to describe what orange juice tastes like. Take five minutes to look at the links, learn something about your body... why wouldn't you be interested in how your body works?I'm guessing she knew all that at the beginning of the discussion, so don't work too hard at teaching her. I'm still interested in how he calls the involuntary nervous system, the instinctive system. Instincts relay information for survival, and are constantly in touch with their immediate environment. Though they may be deemed to be dormant, if the constant environments are only ever habitual comfort zones. |
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2016 12:46:35 GMT -5
For the most part my seeking was done unconsciously and involved learning and theorizing intellectually and acting and relaxing out in nature and appreciating art, so it didn't seem like suffering to me. As the dude who authored the "Birdman" script put it, it was the "unexpected virtue of ignorance". I guess it would get to be suffering if SR was something that the seeker wanted, because it's not something they can have. I tried to watch that film and couldn't get past the first 15 minutes, I think I'll try again sometime. The way I see it, it is attachment to outcomes that comes with suffering, though to be fair, there may be times when it is appropriate to attach to an outcome and just deal with the suffering that comes with that. The good thing about seeking SR/enlightenment is that it can burn off the energy of attachment in general probably far faster than any other pursuit, and that's because there is an intrinsic failure and futility to that particular seeking. We don't get what we want, but the process is still ultimately beneficial. Because it's informing the mind what not to do? |
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2016 12:53:39 GMT -5
What's your point? How about quoting my whole post. Then you'll have an answer. This is contextual fraud. The whole point is about surrender which you haven't included in my quote. He doesn't know any better. He thinks he can use mind to slip the knot of mind. If the Real ever visited him, he would pee his pants. What's the Real doing when it's not visiting? |
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Post by andrew on May 7, 2016 13:01:18 GMT -5
I tried to watch that film and couldn't get past the first 15 minutes, I think I'll try again sometime. The way I see it, it is attachment to outcomes that comes with suffering, though to be fair, there may be times when it is appropriate to attach to an outcome and just deal with the suffering that comes with that. The good thing about seeking SR/enlightenment is that it can burn off the energy of attachment in general probably far faster than any other pursuit, and that's because there is an intrinsic failure and futility to that particular seeking. We don't get what we want, but the process is still ultimately beneficial. Because it's informing the mind what not to do? That might be part of it, but I would also say that the overall process changes our values and priorities. I think most folks have a genuine conditioned interest in the drama of success and failure, winning and losing, ups and downs, and there is often great attachment to this drama. In the seeking process, our values and priorities are re-orientated, and the former conditioned interest is burned off, as many interests are, after a while of pursuing them intensely. The process basically changes us, just as any intense process does. Some folks go off to war and come back changed, others pursue SR and come back changed. |
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Post by silver on May 7, 2016 13:04:37 GMT -5
For the most part my seeking was done unconsciously and involved learning and theorizing intellectually and acting and relaxing out in nature and appreciating art, so it didn't seem like suffering to me. As the dude who authored the "Birdman" script put it, it was the "unexpected virtue of ignorance". I guess it would get to be suffering if SR was something that the seeker wanted, because it's not something they can have. I tried to watch that film and couldn't get past the first 15 minutes, I think I'll try again sometime. The way I see it, it is attachment to outcomes that comes with suffering, though to be fair, there may be times when it is appropriate to attach to an outcome and just deal with the suffering that comes with that. The good thing about seeking SR/enlightenment is that it can burn off the energy of attachment in general probably far faster than any other pursuit, and that's because there is an intrinsic failure and futility to that particular seeking. We don't get what we want, but the process is still ultimately beneficial. Yes, to the underscored.......I suffered when I watched that movie, ha ha ha.  |
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Post by andrew on May 7, 2016 13:19:24 GMT -5
I tried to watch that film and couldn't get past the first 15 minutes, I think I'll try again sometime. The way I see it, it is attachment to outcomes that comes with suffering, though to be fair, there may be times when it is appropriate to attach to an outcome and just deal with the suffering that comes with that. The good thing about seeking SR/enlightenment is that it can burn off the energy of attachment in general probably far faster than any other pursuit, and that's because there is an intrinsic failure and futility to that particular seeking. We don't get what we want, but the process is still ultimately beneficial. Yes, to the underscored.......I suffered when I watched that movie, ha ha ha. lol yeah, I know going in the second time that it's gonna be tough! Might have to down a bottle of pepsi before hand. |
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Post by laughter on May 7, 2016 13:29:43 GMT -5
Yes, to the underscored.......I suffered when I watched that movie, ha ha ha. lol yeah, I know going in the second time that it's gonna be tough! Might have to down a bottle of pepsi before hand. What the director captured in the scenes when Keaton is walking from the theater to the bar and in the halls of the theater is the hard, frenetic, closeness of Manhattan. |
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