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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 22, 2016 7:59:03 GMT -5
But the point is we are not our conditioning. Our conditioning presents a false sense of self. So a whole long chain of nasty conditioning made Hitler. But the fact Hitler thought he was doing right does not negate any responsibility for killing millions of people. The fact Hitler believed he was doing right just means he was conditioned miserably. Until Trump has come to power like he has, I couldn't understand how the German people put Hitler into power. Now I understand perfectly how it happened. Now I can't believe America is in the position of having to choose between Hillary and Trump, it's quite bizarre, but it is what it is. But the American people have made this choice. Hitler hasn't come to power by election, he came to power through back door. I think you need to check your history. He got his foot in the door as an elected official, and talked his way into more power, lies and deception and obfuscation, and then illegal actions then killing innocent people. An example of camel's nose under tent. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 22, 2016 8:00:53 GMT -5
From Kabbalah. Originally, God existed as All, the unmanifest. In order for the world to manifest, God had to ~make a place~ where God was not. So, God withdrew his presence from a certain ~space~, and in that space, created the physical universe. So, there is the unmanifest, and the manifest. The manifest world is the world of duality. There is much more to the story, but that's basically it. This place of withdrawal is written about as a single point (by the Ari, Isaac Luria, a couple hundred years ago), so it matches perfectly with the Big Bang. .....Some Kabbalists say the world is created. Some Kabbalists are non-dualists and say the universe is a manifestation of God (in the sense of a step-down transformer, a series of stepping down, in a kind of sense diluting God). But no, creation is not another power/thing apart from God, not a Source/God unto itself. Did your grandfather narrated this story? Or how come you know this? I read. I follow my interest, one thing leads to another. You could probably google isaac luria and creation. You could find this easily. (I'm not Jewish, not Hasidic). Aiden Steinsaltz is very good on Kabbalah, writes very simply. The best beginner book is God is a Verb, author name escapes me....Rabbi Cook....no David Cooper. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2016 8:11:39 GMT -5
Hitler hasn't come to power by election, he came to power through back door. I think you need to check your history. He got his foot in the door as an elected official, and talked his way into more power, lies and deception and obfuscation, and then illegal actions then killing innocent people. An example of camel's nose under tent. German Jews were deprived of the vote in 1935 and Hitler never won a popular election anyway. He came to power via a back room deal, not a vote by the people. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 22, 2016 8:16:44 GMT -5
There isn't a Satan, that's nonsense too. Neither is God (directly) to blame for Charlie. Yes, SOCI formed a universe where "evil" would be possible, and even inevitable. In creating such a world God necessarily had to limit his power, within that world. The consequences of forming beings with the ability to choose, in the end nasty choices would be made and nasty results world occur. Our world today is a result of millions of nasty decisions. SOCI can know the future? Some things, yes. God brings some things to be (your predetermination) but not everything. If I marry the wrong person, that was allowed, not determined. God knows the end where everything is headed, but there is wiggle room in how to get there. For example, if I need to end up in New York, I can fly, ride bus, drive, hitch hike, walk, ride bicycle, God doesn't determine how I must get there. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2016 8:17:10 GMT -5
Did your grandfather narrated this story? Or how come you know this? I read. I follow my interest, one thing leads to another. You could probably google isaac luria and creation. You could find this easily. (I'm not Jewish, not Hasidic). Aiden Steinsaltz is very good on Kabbalah, writes very simply. The best beginner book is God is a Verb, author name escapes me....Rabbi Cook....no Cooper. You read lot's of books and writing here, that's all. You can read about history but theory like 'God existed and manifested' can't be read and understood. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 22, 2016 8:19:04 GMT -5
I think you need to check your history. He got his foot in the door as an elected official, and talked his way into more power, lies and deception and obfuscation, and then illegal actions then killing innocent people. An example of camel's nose under tent. German Jews were deprived of the vote in 1935 and Hitler never won a popular election anyway. He came to power via a back room deal, not a vote by the people. OK, so he was appointed to a position of power, and then just acquiring more power? |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 22, 2016 8:20:08 GMT -5
I read. I follow my interest, one thing leads to another. You could probably google isaac luria and creation. You could find this easily. (I'm not Jewish, not Hasidic). Aiden Steinsaltz is very good on Kabbalah, writes very simply. The best beginner book is God is a Verb, author name escapes me....Rabbi Cook....no Cooper. You read lot's of books and writing here, that's all. You can read about history but theory like 'God existed and manifested' can't be read and understood. I agree. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2016 8:23:02 GMT -5
SOCI can know the future? Some things, yes. God brings some things to be (your predetermination) but not everything. If I marry the wrong person, that was allowed, not determined. God knows the end where everything is headed, but there is wiggle room in how to get there. For example, if I need to end up in New York, I can fly, ride bus, drive, hitch hike, walk, ride bicycle, God doesn't determine how I must get there. Knowing the future is freezing the future. And also God can't bring something into existence through his predetermination If he has given the free choice to you. If God is willing to bring something day after tomorrow, then everything must have been in place as he expected, Otherwise it's not possible. The problem here is, If he has given you the free choice then God himself can't know what would happen day after tomorrow. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 22, 2016 8:38:20 GMT -5
Some things, yes. God brings some things to be (your predetermination) but not everything. If I marry the wrong person, that was allowed, not determined. God knows the end where everything is headed, but there is wiggle room in how to get there. For example, if I need to end up in New York, I can fly, ride bus, drive, hitch hike, walk, ride bicycle, God doesn't determine how I must get there. Knowing the future is freezing the future. And also God can't bring something into existence through his predetermination If he has given the free choice to you. If God is willing to bring something day after tomorrow, then everything must have been in place as he expected, Otherwise it's not possible. The problem here is, If he has given you the free choice then God himself can't know what would happen day after tomorrow. No, your view of God is too small. Rabbi Akiva (first century I think) said: God knows the future, but man has free will. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2016 8:48:19 GMT -5
Knowing the future is freezing the future. And also God can't bring something into existence through his predetermination If he has given the free choice to you. If God is willing to bring something day after tomorrow, then everything must have been in place as he expected, Otherwise it's not possible. The problem here is, If he has given you the free choice then God himself can't know what would happen day after tomorrow. No, your view of God is too small. Rabbi Akiva (first century I think) said: God knows the future, but man has free will. You are understanding the problem of your view here. Most of the religious people want their God to give the free will for them because none of them can accept the idea of predetermination. In the same time they all want their God to be omniscient as well. But they don't know both are mutually exclusive. God doesn't need to be aware of the future to nullify your freewill, God's ability to peek into future is more than enough to deprive your freewill. If God knows what you would be eating tomorrow morning, Can you choose to eat something else? Can you ? If you can't choose what he had already known, is it not predetermined? He can't know your free choice, If he could know, then it's not free choice, it's bound to happen. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 22, 2016 8:52:06 GMT -5
German Jews were deprived of the vote in 1935 and Hitler never won a popular election anyway. He came to power via a back room deal, not a vote by the people. OK, so he was appointed to a position of power, and then just acquiring more power? I googled Wikipedia. Hitler was appointed Chancellor by President Hindenburg in January 1933. On March 5, 1933 there were General Federal Elections. The Nazi party got 43.9% of the vote, not the needed majority. They formed a coalition with the German National People's Party, and thus gained power. So, I'll have to call you incorrect (although the back room deal may have been the mentioned coalition). ...Shortly after the Nazi party gained power (legally as described) they passed the Enabling act, which allowed Hitler to declare himself Dictator. .... The point is Hitler had a legal path to power. |
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Post by andrew on Sept 22, 2016 8:53:00 GMT -5
I think you need to check your history. He got his foot in the door as an elected official, and talked his way into more power, lies and deception and obfuscation, and then illegal actions then killing innocent people. An example of camel's nose under tent. German Jews were deprived of the vote in 1935 and Hitler never won a popular election anyway. He came to power via a back room deal, not a vote by the people. curious...were you taught this at school, or was it your own learning? |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 22, 2016 9:02:50 GMT -5
No, your view of God is too small. Rabbi Akiva (first century I think) said: God knows the future, but man has free will. You are understanding the problem of your view here. Most of the religious people want their God to give the free will for them because none of them can accept the idea of predetermination. In the same time they all want their God to be omniscient as well. But they don't know both are mutually exclusive. God doesn't need to be aware of the future to nullify your freewill, God's ability to peek into future is more than enough to deprive your freewill. If God knows what you would be eating tomorrow morning, Can you choose to eat something else? Can you ? If you can't choose what he had already known, is it not predetermined? He can't know your free choice, If he could know, then it's not free choice, it's bound to happen. God's omniscience is not incompatible with free will. But yes, God has to limit his omnipotence for the present world to exist, already spoken to. The other stuff...we did that dance when you first arrived, don't care to do it again (it's still on the record). |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2016 9:13:45 GMT -5
He is punching holes in your conceptual Consciousness self-identity and all you can say is "Please"....  I do understand why you don't want to answer the question. Pu-leeeeese.  Who's speaking? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2016 9:16:43 GMT -5
Yes, I know we don't mean it in the same way. I'm saying he can't know that (and neither can you). Just because we can't see the physical in any way other than subjectively doesn't prove it's not there in some way.Right, but it's not there nevertheless. Maybe that which is saying that 'it's not there nevertheless', is not there. |
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