|
Post by laughter on Sept 21, 2014 14:29:14 GMT -5
sv, I can tell you that the members here would be very interested in hearing of your experience in following this question. If you like, I can tell you of mine, but I've got much more interest in what you'd have to say about it. By your recollection, was your encountering Ramana's recommendation of the question the first time that you seriously and consciously considered it? Nothing is serious and conscious about 'my persona'.... I'm scattered all over and flow like a wild wind, although, there is, I presume, some "hidden agenda" of self- righteousness within. I see it and helpless to change, oh, soooo funny ... Anyway, here it is:
That hot GA state summer afternoon I came across "who am I?" inquiry. Crazy driven by thirsty curiosity, I immediately got inspired and situated myself on bed, simply laying down in position of a star. This way it is very easy to relax completely my body. So, I began breath and repeat this "who am I?" in rhythm. Just like this - 1, 2, 3... 1, 2, 3... - who, am, I... who, am, I... I was not really seriously penetrating the meaning of this question. Suddenly, I am aware that there is no sensation of a body there. Only 'breathing' itself continuously acting on its own. At the same time some random thoughts crossing mind without registering. Next thing I know is a sensation of a " fly caught in a spider web" . Helpless, immovable, metal-concrete and fixed. It seemed as a center of my chest was only living 'thing' and only point or dot, so to speak. Melting brain sensation slowly came over and panic of "END of I" rushed through the space I'd call 'ME'... But there is nothing I could do!!! No body - no move! There is nothing to move! The harder I tried to get my body-sense back, the more inevitable and final was the VERDICT of an END! Jumping Jesus!!! Well, guess what, I had no choice, but let go of trying... As soon as I really gave up, body began appearing to my senses... OMG! I am back!
The End (or Beginning).... whichever you prefer...
Sincere thanks for that. There's some similarity in your description and those I've heard of others. Before you encountered RM's idea, did you have a world view based on your culture? Had you any familiarity with the notions of Advaita or Zen or American new-aginess? Any authors like Tolle or Adyashanti?
|
|
soulvitamin
New Member
Awareness waits in the background....
Posts: 40
|
Post by soulvitamin on Sept 21, 2014 15:15:40 GMT -5
Nothing is serious and conscious about 'my persona'.... I'm scattered all over and flow like a wild wind, although, there is, I presume, some "hidden agenda" of self- righteousness within. I see it and helpless to change, oh, soooo funny ... Anyway, here it is:
That hot GA state summer afternoon I came across "who am I?" inquiry. Crazy driven by thirsty curiosity, I immediately got inspired and situated myself on bed, simply laying down in position of a star. This way it is very easy to relax completely my body. So, I began breath and repeat this "who am I?" in rhythm. Just like this - 1, 2, 3... 1, 2, 3... - who, am, I... who, am, I... I was not really seriously penetrating the meaning of this question. Suddenly, I am aware that there is no sensation of a body there. Only 'breathing' itself continuously acting on its own. At the same time some random thoughts crossing mind without registering. Next thing I know is a sensation of a " fly caught in a spider web" . Helpless, immovable, metal-concrete and fixed. It seemed as a center of my chest was only living 'thing' and only point or dot, so to speak. Melting brain sensation slowly came over and panic of "END of I" rushed through the space I'd call 'ME'... But there is nothing I could do!!! No body - no move! There is nothing to move! The harder I tried to get my body-sense back, the more inevitable and final was the VERDICT of an END! Jumping Jesus!!! Well, guess what, I had no choice, but let go of trying... As soon as I really gave up, body began appearing to my senses... OMG! I am back!
The End (or Beginning).... whichever you prefer...
Sincere thanks for that. There's some similarity in your description and those I've heard of others. Before you encountered RM's idea, did you have a world view based on your culture? Had you any familiarity with the notions of Advaita or Zen or American new-aginess? Any authors like Tolle or Adyashanti? Before RM's idea, I've randomly read some material on "Indian Yoga", and about meditation as a help to open your mind, because, stillness is only a first step(or pre-step) to actual mind opening and liberating from labels. I wish I did not get scarred of the process in my experience and let it to unveil ... But it kinda hard to say "bye-bye" to your identity... )))))))) Here I am with my excuses... I also had random out-of body experiences, which are nothing similar to my "who am I?" experience. Then, afterwords, I came across Advaita, Zen, (New Age BS - ), and of course E.Tolle and watched Adyashanti on YouTube. Now, I'd like you to share your personal experience on this journey.
|
|
|
Post by japhy on Sept 21, 2014 15:24:58 GMT -5
So... As mentioned earlier introducing my HUGE EGO that "no agenda" as approach to meditative state, actually, is agenda as well. Someone replied saying that I can, actually, become free of agenda. How? In my understanding, any intention/intent is a "goal", so to speak, thus, agenda is right behind it. Or not?... Where is your agenda right now? Locate it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 15:37:20 GMT -5
The mess that your perceiving is only expression that isn't centred fully. Relax, honestly. Are YOU centered fully by re-acting to this post? Oh yeah.
|
|
|
Post by japhy on Sept 21, 2014 15:41:00 GMT -5
Now, I'd like you to share your personal experience on this journey.I guess this one, was for laughter and not for me, but I feel like replying ;-). Today after waking up, I read some pages in a book about "being a man". Somehow this topic still gives me some questions ;-). Then sitting in my bed (in really bad position, a Zen guy would have screamed...) I started to watch my breath and what is. Soon I entered a state where my vision blurred and changed and a feeling of being connected came up. It was not really woo woo, but the transition was slow and peaceful. Now some questions which I have been carrying around came up and where resolved. I stayed in the state for an hour or so. This was an important event since I have stopped formal meditation some weeks ago. I had a panic attack during formal meditation and lost interest. Welcome by the way.
|
|
soulvitamin
New Member
Awareness waits in the background....
Posts: 40
|
Post by soulvitamin on Sept 21, 2014 15:42:27 GMT -5
So... As mentioned earlier introducing my HUGE EGO that "no agenda" as approach to meditative state, actually, is agenda as well. Someone replied saying that I can, actually, become free of agenda. How? In my understanding, any intention/intent is a "goal", so to speak, thus, agenda is right behind it. Or not?... Where is your agenda right now? Locate it. Here, can you touch it?...
|
|
|
Post by laughter on Sept 21, 2014 15:51:21 GMT -5
Sincere thanks for that. There's some similarity in your description and those I've heard of others. Before you encountered RM's idea, did you have a world view based on your culture? Had you any familiarity with the notions of Advaita or Zen or American new-aginess? Any authors like Tolle or Adyashanti? Before RM's idea, I've randomly read some material on "Indian Yoga", and about meditation as a help to open your mind, because, stillness is only a first step(or pre-step) to actual mind opening and liberating from labels. I wish I did not get scarred of the process in my experience and let it to unveil ... But it kinda hard to say "bye-bye" to your identity... )))))))) Here I am with my excuses... I also had random out-of body experiences, which are nothing similar to my "who am I?" experience. Then, afterwords, I came across Advaita, Zen, (New Age BS - ), and of course E.Tolle and watched Adyashanti on YouTube. Now, I'd like you to share your personal experience on this journey.Sure sv, my story is one of unconsciously seeking both conceptual truth and the experience of losing myself in physical experience by chasing pleasure. With no religious indoctrination, the conceptual truths were sought in academic subjects, primarily science and history. After several decades of curiosity and occasional conscious pondering of a few of the more paradoxical problems presented by science, I'd wound up with a world view that "everything is consciousness". At that point, I picked up "The Power of Now" and read "You Are Not Your Mind". While I didn't even realize what was happening at the time, the process that ensued was essentially ... "hmmm .... that's a funny little notion, if I'm not my mind, then what am I? ... ". At that point, my reference for any of the Eastern ideas and cultures was really thin on the ground. The word "enlightenment" conjured images of a bearded hippie in lotus on the floor dressed in a robe takin' a hit off a hooka. But what followed, in the wake of following Tolle's prescription to "watch the thinker", was several months that were punctuated by intense mental silence, and the world took on a sort of transparent nature that has never fully gone away since. There were other particular point experiences, that while not as dramatic as OBE, are also equally more difficult to describe than that. Suddenly, the reading and learning and curiosity habit dropped off, and for several months after the last thing that occurred to me was the idea to speak about it with anyone. What would have been the point? Eventually that curiosity perked back up again, and what I eventually concluded from corresponding with others was that in those decades, the idea, that I could never accept, from Quantum Mechanics, that matter isn't independent of the observation of it, was essentially a contemplation, mostly unconscious, of the pointer "form is emptiness, emptiness is form". That made the mind straw, and Tolle lit a match.
|
|
soulvitamin
New Member
Awareness waits in the background....
Posts: 40
|
Post by soulvitamin on Sept 21, 2014 15:54:35 GMT -5
Now, I'd like you to share your personal experience on this journey.I guess this one, was for laughter and not for me, but I feel like replying ;-). Today after waking up, I read some pages in a book about "being a man". Somehow this topic still gives me some questions ;-). Then sitting in my bed (in really bad position, a Zen guy would have screamed...) I started to watch my breath and what is. Soon I entered a state where my vision blurred and changed and a feeling of being connected came up. It was not really woo woo, but the transition was slow and peaceful. Now some questions which I have been carrying around came up and where resolved. I stayed in the state for an hour or so. This was an important event since I have stopped formal meditation some weeks ago. I had a panic attack during formal meditation and lost interest. Welcome by the way. Thank you for welcoming! Did you expect any particular experience while meditating? Why do you think panic is happening?
|
|
|
Post by japhy on Sept 21, 2014 16:21:12 GMT -5
Thank you for welcoming! Did you expect any particular experience while meditating? Why do you think panic is happening?
Somehow I could let go of my expectations today. Concerning the panic: My mind seems to be some what timid. I have been through a phase of fear of becoming mad. The attack mentioned above, was raw fear, the fear of an animal, a bodily reaction. Something in my belly moved(*). My heart just started to speed at maximum rate and speed. I sat through it. (*)Based on my experiences I have the theory that, what some call the ego, is "stored" in muscular and energetical contractions. These contractions are tense parts of the body (for example in the belly, back, neck). One can perceive them as muscular tense, but because we are used to our own tensions we usually don't perceive them. On another level one can also perceive them as energetical contraction. When I talked about energy, I refer to something which I can perceive flowing through my body (and also outside my body). The energy has some similarity to electric current on a metaphoric level. These tensions in my model give feedback that someone/ a person is there. When change in these contrations takes place (for example relaxation) this can cause fear (of death) because of lacking feedback. I think this is what happend to me this day. Of course what I have written above is not absolutly true, but it is a helpful modell to me. If you can't relate to anything I have written above throw it away :-).
|
|
soulvitamin
New Member
Awareness waits in the background....
Posts: 40
|
Post by soulvitamin on Sept 21, 2014 16:34:13 GMT -5
Sure sv, my story is one of unconsciously seeking both conceptual truth and the experience of losing myself in physical experience by chasing pleasure. With no religious indoctrination, the conceptual truths were sought in academic subjects, primarily science and history. After several decades of curiosity and occasional conscious pondering of a few of the more paradoxical problems presented by science, I'd wound up with a world view that "everything is consciousness". At that point, I picked up "The Power of Now" and read "You Are Not Your Mind". While I didn't even realize what was happening at the time, the process that ensued was essentially ... "hmmm .... that's a funny little notion, if I'm not my mind, then what am I? ... ". At that point, my reference for any of the Eastern ideas and cultures was really thin on the ground. The word "enlightenment" conjured images of a bearded hippie in lotus on the floor dressed in a robe takin' a hit off a hooka. But what followed, in the wake of following Tolle's prescription to "watch the thinker", was several months that were punctuated by intense mental silence, and the world took on a sort of transparent nature that has never fully gone away since. There were other particular point experiences, that while not as dramatic as OBE, are also equally more difficult to describe than that. Suddenly, the reading and learning and curiosity habit dropped off, and for several months after the last thing that occurred to me was the idea to speak about it with anyone. What would have been the point? Eventually that curiosity perked back up again, and what I eventually concluded from corresponding with others was that in those decades, the idea, that I could never accept, from Quantum Mechanics, that matter isn't independent of the observation of it, was essentially a contemplation, mostly unconscious, of the pointer "form is emptiness, emptiness is form". That made the mind straw, and Tolle lit a match. Thank you for sharing your story!
You see, what driving me crazy is the thought that "there should be a Puppeteer" behind the Absolute' scene. I mean, how in the world to grasp the idea that something is coming from nothingness.... Even this empty screen we are typing on our posts,.... this, so to speak, 'background' must be some kind of a "set up" by an ORCHESTRATOR. Who or what the hell is 'HE', 'SHE', 'IT'... I tried, but simply cannot buy the idea of a 'happy-blissful-nothing'! Seems like breaking the veil is a TABOO, that is why people are having panic attacks. It's like an invisible dog fence, where the pain impulse keeps a dog in the 'matrix of owner's property'.... What do you think?
|
|
|
Post by laughter on Sept 21, 2014 17:56:32 GMT -5
Sincere thanks for that. There's some similarity in your description and those I've heard of others. Before you encountered RM's idea, did you have a world view based on your culture? Had you any familiarity with the notions of Advaita or Zen or American new-aginess? Any authors like Tolle or Adyashanti? Before RM's idea, I've randomly read some material on "Indian Yoga", and about meditation as a help to open your mind, because, stillness is only a first step(or pre-step) to actual mind opening and liberating from labels. I wish I did not get scarred of the process in my experience and let it to unveil ... But it kinda hard to say "bye-bye" to your identity... )))))))) Here I am with my excuses... I also had random out-of body experiences, which are nothing similar to my "who am I?" experience. Then, afterwords, I came across Advaita, Zen, (New Age BS - ), and of course E.Tolle and watched Adyashanti on YouTube. Now, I'd like you to share your personal experience on this journey.sv, if you'd like to say, I'd be interested in how long ago the self-inquiry experience happened and for how long you'd been meditating prior to that, but as always, feel free to remain silent!
|
|
|
Post by laughter on Sept 21, 2014 18:04:29 GMT -5
Sure sv, my story is one of unconsciously seeking both conceptual truth and the experience of losing myself in physical experience by chasing pleasure. With no religious indoctrination, the conceptual truths were sought in academic subjects, primarily science and history. After several decades of curiosity and occasional conscious pondering of a few of the more paradoxical problems presented by science, I'd wound up with a world view that "everything is consciousness". At that point, I picked up "The Power of Now" and read "You Are Not Your Mind". While I didn't even realize what was happening at the time, the process that ensued was essentially ... "hmmm .... that's a funny little notion, if I'm not my mind, then what am I? ... ". At that point, my reference for any of the Eastern ideas and cultures was really thin on the ground. The word "enlightenment" conjured images of a bearded hippie in lotus on the floor dressed in a robe takin' a hit off a hooka. But what followed, in the wake of following Tolle's prescription to "watch the thinker", was several months that were punctuated by intense mental silence, and the world took on a sort of transparent nature that has never fully gone away since. There were other particular point experiences, that while not as dramatic as OBE, are also equally more difficult to describe than that. Suddenly, the reading and learning and curiosity habit dropped off, and for several months after the last thing that occurred to me was the idea to speak about it with anyone. What would have been the point? Eventually that curiosity perked back up again, and what I eventually concluded from corresponding with others was that in those decades, the idea, that I could never accept, from Quantum Mechanics, that matter isn't independent of the observation of it, was essentially a contemplation, mostly unconscious, of the pointer "form is emptiness, emptiness is form". That made the mind straw, and Tolle lit a match. Thank you for sharing your story!
You see, what driving me crazy is the thought that "there should be a Puppeteer" behind the Absolute' scene. I mean, how in the world to grasp the idea that something is coming from nothingness.... Even this empty screen we are typing on our posts,.... this, so to speak, 'background' must be some kind of a "set up" by an ORCHESTRATOR. Who or what the hell is 'HE', 'SHE', 'IT'... I tried, but simply cannot buy the idea of a 'happy-blissful-nothing'! Seems like breaking the veil is a TABOO, that is why people are having panic attacks. It's like an invisible dog fence, where the pain impulse keeps a dog in the 'matrix of owner's property'.... What do you think?
I think that if you take one good deep breath, then the fact that there is something rather than nothing is all the self-evidence you need to put the question of how to resolve somethingness and nothingness to rest. The idea of the puppeteer is a contrivance, the purpose of which is to maintain the mental division between what you take yourself to be and what isn't that. You are nothing that appears to you, but there is no such division, as you're not separate from that either.
|
|
soulvitamin
New Member
Awareness waits in the background....
Posts: 40
|
Post by soulvitamin on Sept 21, 2014 21:44:11 GMT -5
I think that if you take one good deep breath, then the fact that there is something rather than nothing is all the self-evidence you need to put the question of how to resolve somethingness and nothingness to rest. The idea of the puppeteer is a contrivance, the purpose of which is to maintain the mental division between what you take yourself to be and what isn't that. You are nothing that appears to you, but there is no such division, as you're not separate from that either. Perpetual motion of idea 'I am = I am not'
|
|
|
Post by laughter on Sept 21, 2014 22:09:42 GMT -5
I think that if you take one good deep breath, then the fact that there is something rather than nothing is all the self-evidence you need to put the question of how to resolve somethingness and nothingness to rest. The idea of the puppeteer is a contrivance, the purpose of which is to maintain the mental division between what you take yourself to be and what isn't that. You are nothing that appears to you, but there is no such division, as you're not separate from that either. Perpetual motion of idea 'I am = I am not'That's an interesting and creative way to put it. ps: but that you are, rather than aren't, is surely self-evident.
|
|
soulvitamin
New Member
Awareness waits in the background....
Posts: 40
|
Post by soulvitamin on Sept 22, 2014 14:26:32 GMT -5
sv, if you'd like to say, I'd be interested in how long ago the self-inquiry experience happened and for how long you'd been meditating prior to that, but as always, feel free to remain silent! Like I said earlier, I'm extremely spontaneous and follow my impulses vs scheduling, rules, etc. Which, in fact, sometime kicks me on a b... ))))) So, whenever I feel like "get in touch with silence" I'd do that. I think it's irrelevant how long ago the self-inquiry experience happened..., it happened and I'm glad I've had a tiny glimpse at alternative state of mind or, so called, "no-mind". Prior to 'who am I" there were several instances of spontaneous "slip offs" to ALT states. For example : I was sitting on the couch and saying outloud a single word "umbrella", next - the meaning of the word began disappearing, just like pilling the onion, layer by layer and I thought "am I crazy?" Then nothing left from that word, but strange ringing in my ears. Then my body transformed into ONE HUGE PULSATION and the wall in front of me began breathing, it was alive... Another example: I decided to meditate, so again, laying on bed and staring at the ceiling fan I lost all my body sensations and , all of a sudden, the evil laugh began penetrating my entire being, it was louder and louder and I had really hard time to stop.... Another yet: Under general anesthesia I had a very split mind sensation, I was a tiny cell among other tiny cells that were dividing in a crazy speed. Then the waking up stage of it was like me trying to come through a flat rotating surface from "that world" to "this world".
AFTER "who am I" there was in the middle of the night some kind of "epiphany-love-expanding" experience, where my solar plexus was emanating COMPASSIONATE COSMIC LOVE, poring it out of me, making me feel ENDLESS in total harmony. And the very base of my throat was acting like a pulse, like something about to be born.
Anyway, these kind of spontaneous experiences are taking place from time to time, and I don't prepare myself for them to happen, they just happen leaving me wondering, pondering, thinking and searching..., I don't really know what am I searching for...
|
|