|
|
Post by enigma on Sept 10, 2014 13:01:55 GMT -5
My post was not for the observed in this situation, it was for the "fake Azz crooks" in hip vernaculure....the peepers and philosophers endlessly debating an event they are not taking part in...the arm chair Quarterbacks....the back seat drivers. Hi steve, While to a certain degree, I understand your sentiments there, I'm also thinking that you have an itchy trigger finger. Yeah, sumthin like that. My guess is there's a lot of pride in what has been personally accomplished with meditation, which makes everybody else seem less evolved. This is the primary trap of spiritual study and practices. |
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Sept 10, 2014 14:13:43 GMT -5
Haha........if you see meditation as escapism....well that explains a lot.... I was talking with a fellow who did years of TM and doesn't anymore. He described it as taking a vacation, rest being the result, which was nice. Seems like meditation can mean different things. For me it's always been mindfulness -- paying attention to physical sensations. Can't say it's ever an escape/vacation, though rest does result usually. Mindfullness is good, which is really akin to what I call noticing, though as I see it, it can't be a meditation but rather a way of being, which isn't as woo woo as it might sound. |
|
|
|
Post by steven on Sept 10, 2014 15:01:43 GMT -5
Hi steve, While to a certain degree, I understand your sentiments there, I'm also thinking that you have an itchy trigger finger. My guess is there's a lot of pride in what has been personally accomplished with meditation, That seems to be an oft re-occurring assumption with you... To me your comment seems a bit like a negative nelly, criticizing the teams that take the field, while you sit on the sideline, justifying why others should 'sit the game out' with you. |
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Sept 10, 2014 16:41:14 GMT -5
My guess is there's a lot of pride in what has been personally accomplished with meditation, That seems to be an oft re-occurring assumption with you... I don't ever recall saying that about anyone. The game analogy is perfect. |
|
|
|
Post by steven on Sept 10, 2014 19:02:07 GMT -5
That seems to be an oft re-occurring assumption with you... 1. I don't ever recall saying that about anyone. 2. The game analogy is perfect. 1. Maybe you have a blind spot? 2. Are you too 'seriousal' for games?  |
|
|
|
Post by silver on Sept 10, 2014 19:29:04 GMT -5
1. I don't ever recall saying that about anyone. 2. The game analogy is perfect. 1. Maybe you have a blind spot? 2. Are you too 'seriousal' for games?  Oh dear |
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Sept 10, 2014 21:59:54 GMT -5
1. I don't ever recall saying that about anyone. 2. The game analogy is perfect. 1. Maybe you have a blind spot? Or maybe I never talk about meditators acting proud. (Until now, that is) I mean self delusional mind games. |
|
|
|
Post by steven on Sept 11, 2014 0:50:42 GMT -5
1. Maybe you have a blind spot? Or maybe I never talk about meditators acting proud. (Until now, that is) I mean self delusional mind games. Haha.... So meditators are overly proud folks engaging in self delusional mind games and escapism....interesting direction this thread took lol One would think that may be a more apt description of folks who spend endless hours at a screen debating subject matter whose entire foundation is meditation, who don't meditate regularly....its hilarious really...you guys have just perfectly mirrored yourselves in those descriptors. The entire subject matter discussed here, the entire exploration pursued here, is FOUNDED in one very simple act: Meditation So if you are not meditating regularly, what the hell are you doing here, if not engaging in self delusional mind games and escapism? |
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Sept 11, 2014 2:48:45 GMT -5
Or maybe I never talk about meditators acting proud. (Until now, that is) I mean self delusional mind games. Haha.... So meditators are overly proud folks engaging in self delusional mind games and escapism....interesting direction this thread took lol One would think that may be a more apt description of folks who spend endless hours at a screen debating subject matter whose entire foundation is meditation, who don't meditate regularly....its hilarious really...you guys have just perfectly mirrored yourselves in those descriptors. The entire subject matter discussed here, the entire exploration pursued here, is FOUNDED in one very simple act: Meditation So if you are not meditating regularly, what the hell are you doing here, if not engaging in self delusional mind games and escapism? That's not what I said at all, and I think you now that. |
|
|
|
Post by sunshine on Sept 11, 2014 4:50:15 GMT -5
Or maybe I never talk about meditators acting proud. (Until now, that is) I mean self delusional mind games. Haha.... So meditators are overly proud folks engaging in self delusional mind games and escapism....interesting direction this thread took lol One would think that may be a more apt description of folks who spend endless hours at a screen debating subject matter whose entire foundation is meditation, who don't meditate regularly....its hilarious really...you guys have just perfectly mirrored yourselves in those descriptors. The entire subject matter discussed here, the entire exploration pursued here, is FOUNDED in one very simple act: Meditation So if you are not meditating regularly, what the hell are you doing here, if not engaging in self delusional mind games and escapism? please define meditation |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2014 5:00:04 GMT -5
voyeurism the compulsion to seek sexual gratification by secretively looking at sexual objects (phewww)or acts (Jesus); the actions of a Peeping Tom. — voyeur, n. — voyeuristic, adj. I think now that it might be good time for me to try-out this new word and pick-up learning again by experimentation. If for some reason my posts STOP all of a sudden, it could be because I have been overcome(at my age us old blokes need to watch it) or it will be because my wife wont bail me out from the locker. great idea steve. Attachments:
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2014 9:08:34 GMT -5
If you are not spending at least some time in a meditative state very frequently, then you are only a would be philosopher of, or a VOYEUR of the subject matter discussed here. Voyeurism is not a full way to live life. Steve, how do you define a 'meditative state'? |
|
|
|
Post by steven on Sept 11, 2014 14:19:39 GMT -5
So regardless of the method, or means of arriving at the experience of a meditative state, the actual experience is the same.
One thing to understand, is that meditation is more like a state, than it is a practice. Various practices like sitting ZaZen, or many of the 112 methods in the Vigyan Bhairav Tantra, or in the vedic traditions etc. can lead to meditation, but are not meditation.
The way you get up the hill, is not the same as sitting on the hilltop....So be careful not to confuse the legion of methods for arriving at meditation with meditation.
There is no 'meditating', only a state of meditation, what most people call 'meditating' is actually a practice for arriving at meditation.
Contemplation, sitting ZaZen, breath following, TM, ATA, these are not meditation, they are means to arrive at meditation, and the means have their own benefits besides helping one open into a meditative state.
For a method to open into a state of meditation, one needs to apply three things within their method....Increasing Alertness, Increasing Focus, and Increasing Concentration.
I say 'increasing' because all three of these; Alertness, Focus, Concentration, have to be exercised and developed over time by repeated and consistent use, like a muscle...with a low capacity for sustained alertness, focus, and concentration, no method or practice used to arrive at meditation will work.
You must have or develop the capacity to be alert, focus on a specific action, sense, or object, and be able to concentrate, or hold your focus on your means of getting to a meditative state WITH ALERTNESS.
This can be difficult for some at first, because people like sleeping so to speak, they like distraction and wandering, and oft prefer a kind of subtle lethargy rather than alertness....perseverance is needed to develop the capacity for alertness, focus, and concentration, all three of which provide many benefits besides being able to open into meditation.
The state of meditation itself, occurs when one focuses on an activity, sense, or object with such sustained alertness, focus, and concentration that all sense of doership suddenly drops away, even while one is very alert....this state of alert stillness, or non-doing in the midst of the happening of this moment is the entry point to meditation...on deeper levels of meditation, like relative or absolute Samadhi, both the sense of 'doing' and the sense of seperation of observer and observed disappear completely.
It happens frequently that we get so absorbed into something that the sense of doing and being a separate observer disappears, but what separates this from meditation, is alertness, consciousness, and intention.
And therein is all the difference.
Does that answer your Question Max and '.' ?
|
|
|
|
Post by laughter on Sept 11, 2014 19:30:01 GMT -5
So regardless of the method, or means of arriving at the experience of a meditative state, the actual experience is the same. One thing to understand, is that meditation is more like a state, than it is a practice. Various practices like sitting ZaZen, or many of the 112 methods in the Vigyan Bhairav Tantra, or in the vedic traditions etc. can lead to meditation, but are not meditation. The way you get up the hill, is not the same as sitting on the hilltop....So be careful not to confuse the legion of methods for arriving at meditation with meditation. There is no 'meditating', only a state of meditation, what most people call 'meditating' is actually a practice for arriving at meditation. Contemplation, sitting ZaZen, breath following, TM, ATA, these are not meditation, they are means to arrive at meditation, and the means have their own benefits besides helping one open into a meditative state. For a method to open into a state of meditation, one needs to apply three things within their method....Increasing Alertness, Increasing Focus, and Increasing Concentration. I say 'increasing' because all three of these; Alertness, Focus, Concentration, have to be exercised and developed over time by repeated and consistent use, like a muscle...with a low capacity for sustained alertness, focus, and concentration, no method or practice used to arrive at meditation will work. You must have or develop the capacity to be alert, focus on a specific action, sense, or object, and be able to concentrate, or hold your focus on your means of getting to a meditative state WITH ALERTNESS. This can be difficult for some at first, because people like sleeping so to speak, they like distraction and wandering, and oft prefer a kind of subtle lethargy rather than alertness....perseverance is needed to develop the capacity for alertness, focus, and concentration, all three of which provide many benefits besides being able to open into meditation. The state of meditation itself, occurs when one focuses on an activity, sense, or object with such sustained alertness, focus, and concentration that all sense of doership suddenly drops away, even while one is very alert....this state of alert stillness, or non-doing in the midst of the happening of this moment is the entry point to meditation...on deeper levels of meditation, like relative or absolute Samadhi, both the sense of 'doing' and the sense of seperation of observer and observed disappear completely. It happens frequently that we get so absorbed into something that the sense of doing and being a separate observer disappears, but what separates this from meditation, is alertness, consciousness, and intention. And therein is all the difference. Does that answer your Question Max and '.' ? good answer.  |
|
|
|
Post by Reefs on Sept 12, 2014 5:01:16 GMT -5
If meditation is seen as as disappearing or escaping, then the observer is seeing through their own limited understanding of meditation.. Did someone say that? |
|
Oh dear
