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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jun 25, 2024 18:50:18 GMT -5
"Even God is Idiot". Gurdjieff Great! Starting to like this Gurdgy character more and more! I'd be interested to see the Idiot Typology if there is one. I bet I'm all over the spectrum!  There's not a lot of info out there, it's scattered here and there, pieces, individual memories. I have the Diary of Madame Egout Pour Sweet book mentioned in the link, I'll have a look at it. I have a paper, The Science of Idiotism, but it got buried in a move 7 years ago, I haven't come across it yet, I have it here somewhere, boxed. I have another book, The Realized Idiot, I'll have a look at it, again, it's been some years since I read it. There are subjective Idiots, ordinary people. Then there are objective Idiots, people who practice the teaching, the link mentions. During the toast of the Idiots, at the daily meal, for each person toasted, everyone takes a drink. It's obligatory (unless special permission is granted, and ladies take a 1/2 drink per toast). |
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Post by someNOTHING! on Jun 25, 2024 19:30:08 GMT -5
The architecture and dynamics of the false sense of identity can be described in a detail that is so intricate as to implicate several disciplines of which no man is a complete master. The complexity is ultimately no matter though. The big picture of it is clear enough, and so doesn't take a genius to understand. But whether one's understanding of this machine is superficial, or on levels that require years of study and practice, it is an intellectual and perhaps emotional understanding. The realization is completely sideways to any of that. All that said, it's easy to use the mind-based understanding to discern that there are some scenario's that re-enforce, oil, maintain and extend the durability and lifespan/cycle of the machine: weapons of mass distraction, on one hand, and dogmatic trances that focus attention, on the other. Always the biological imperative at the core. As to meditation, there's nothing foolish about it. Even someone who chooses to meditate with the belief that it might one day lead to SR. Is their practice just another module in the machine? That's just one of the myriad expressions of the existential question right there. Sometimes, in some instances, there might even be a clear, relative, material answer of "yes", but that would be entirely subjective, as in, entirely individualized, and something an observer could only really guess at. Ahhh, the false sense of self!! This is the problem with remote communication. Never considered whether I'm a machine. I did read "The Naked Ape" and heartily embrace my "apeness. " You know I disagree with everything you write, even the punctuation, but I'm tired of arguing, otherwise I'd dispute everything, point by point, with the most beautiful arguments you can possibly imagine. You should see my hand gestures as I think this through. They are also beautiful. Are you trembling? Btw, I don't care what folks say about meditation or practice. I will get angry if you call me a fool, a donkey, flawfull etc. But that's pretty much true for every single person here. Wait!!! There are no persons here. Why doubt is in fact sacred. It keeps us honest. You know I discuss in my head, every day what's the use of being here. I'd like to feel free to discuss how I practice or others, but noone feels free having those kinds of discussions without being pounced on. Yeah, you'll beat your chest and tell me how tough you are and how if what you thought were true, you'd be able to take it. You guys are tough! I'm not. Plus, I'm tired. You know I'm with RobertK. I'm pretty much done. This really goes nowhere for me. So ask me "who's feeling tired" and ...itiffrd7dduxxuxyxyxxyyxxyxyxyxhxvjivucyxyddsysduxuxhxuxhxxuxuxucucjcjcjcjcjcjcjcdtsrars!!!+ I think it would be great for anyone to start a thread on meditation or practices. I assumed most people did some form or other in their offline time anyway. Not all inquiry is spoken or written, after all, and that's just one practice. I bet everyone would respect any parameters you put in the OP, and others could help maintain the focus. Where is RobertK anyway? |
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Post by someNOTHING! on Jun 25, 2024 19:39:23 GMT -5
Great! Starting to like this Gurdgy character more and more! I'd be interested to see the Idiot Typology if there is one. I bet I'm all over the spectrum! There's not a lot of info out there, it's scattered here and there, pieces, individual memories. I have the Diary of Madame Egout Pour Sweet book mentioned in the link, I'll have a look at it. I have a paper, The Science of Idiotism, but it got buried in a move 7 years ago, I haven't come across it yet, I have it here somewhere, boxed. I have another book, The Realized Idiot, I'll have a look at it, again, it's been some years since I read it. There are subjective Idiots, ordinary people. Then there are objective Idiots, people who practice the teaching, the link mentions. During the toast of the Idiots, at the daily meal, for each person toasted, everyone takes a drink. It's obligatory (unless special permission is granted, and ladies take a 1/2 drink per toast). There was a 1960s study that showed the benefits of one serving of alcohol on lowering the affective filter for producing more fluency in second language speakers. Perhaps Gurdy was on to something when (apparently) teaching something of a new language to express trans-rational truth. “The heart has its reasons which reason knows nothing of... We know the truth not only by the reason, but by the heart.” ― Blaise Pascal |
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Post by someNOTHING! on Jun 25, 2024 20:06:14 GMT -5
Then we've NEVER been on the same page. No, it doesn't. acausal: Not arising from causation or arising from a cause. A quantum event is acausal, that's why quantum physics is so bizarre. Nobody, after over 100 years, knows what's going on in a quantum event. Neither random nor predetermined. An absence of cause, which is not meant to imply chaos. Any thought past the notion of absence is a fractal recurrence in a subconscious process. Whoa!  |
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Post by laughter on Jun 25, 2024 21:00:53 GMT -5
Neither random nor predetermined. An absence of cause, which is not meant to imply chaos. Any thought past the notion of absence is a fractal recurrence in a subconscious process. Whoa!  |
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Post by lolly on Jun 26, 2024 4:58:58 GMT -5
My idea is, It is you just as you are, and there are causes for being this way, but It isn't caused. Meditation is a good idea in the sense that 'this is how it is'. Since people are highly distracted they never really just stop and 'be', I think mindfulness, which is to stop and look, will interrupt perpetuation tendencies and thereby 'ripen the fruit' so to speak, but that's not to say meditation is over when the apple falls from the tree - which is why the 'cause' notion doesn't really stack up.
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Post by zazeniac on Jun 26, 2024 6:00:00 GMT -5
No biggie about the fool thing. My wife calls me a poser every day.
Sorry about the idiot comment. It's unnecessary. The problem is not st. It's me. This little engine of a brain gets wound up.
My days are much more zen-like when I "eat my soup," a Zen story. Hiatus time.
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Post by someNOTHING! on Jun 26, 2024 7:41:40 GMT -5
Whoa! Interesting how such movements of mind just kinda naturally fall away, losing their power without attention given to them. In their absence, who knows what will arise? |
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Post by someNOTHING! on Jun 26, 2024 8:00:42 GMT -5
No biggie about the fool thing. My wife calls me a poser every day. Sorry about the idiot comment. It's unnecessary. The problem is not st. It's me. This little engine of a brain gets wound up. My days are much more zen-like when I "eat my soup," a Zen story. Hiatus time. Dang, no Supreme Idiot status. What am I gonna do now?   You're a good egg in my book, ZZ. The pups told me of your secret adventures. Pups have a unique devotion to the bringer of hands that feed and care; whereas, significant others often focus on the devil in the details, thinking they 'know' who you truly are. Experiment with this. If one ever wakes up beside them, and they are still asleep and laying on their side, on occasion, quietly surprise with an early morning gentle, flat-handed back massage/tickle without any words or intents other than just doing the action. If they resist even a little, just whisper to them, "Please, just let me do this." When finished, just get up and walk out to take care of the morning stuff. It invariably changes a dynamic over time. Now when I do it, Sora will even lift her shirt to get the human touch, taking it all in. She sometimes even reports almost out-of-body experiences. Interesting stuff. Is that Zen story the one with the cook and the snake head? |
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Post by someNOTHING! on Jun 26, 2024 8:26:46 GMT -5
My idea is, It is you just as you are, and there are causes for being this way, but It isn't caused. Meditation is a good idea in the sense that 'this is how it is'. Since people are highly distracted they never really just stop and 'be', I think mindfulness, which is to stop and look, will interrupt perpetuation tendencies and thereby 'ripen the fruit' so to speak, but that's not to say meditation is over when the apple falls from the tree - which is why the 'cause' notion doesn't really stack up. Right, so IT isn't caused, but there are mind-identifiable causes for the qualitative aspects of one's experience. If the pointing is at IT, and Thou Art IT, what would the 'cause' be for ITS realization? Or, what would be what SDP has labeled as a blockage? This can get purddy Zenny zany, so we can just drop it any time. But yes, when the apple falls from the tree, it may just be the realization of NOTHINGNESS/ONENESS, which can get attached to along with the hyper-minded sense of Freedom. That's when aspiring Zen monks might get their fingers lopped off or cats get cut in half. |
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Post by laughter on Jun 26, 2024 17:16:26 GMT -5
Interesting how such movements of mind just kinda naturally fall away, losing their power without attention given to them. In their absence, who knows what will arise? Even people peeps with no interest in the existential question have a point of reference for that .. "mental space".  |
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Post by someNOTHING! on Jun 27, 2024 6:00:57 GMT -5
Interesting how such movements of mind just kinda naturally fall away, losing their power without attention given to them. In their absence, who knows what will arise? Even people peeps with no interest in the existential question have a point of reference for that .. "mental space". Yup. I suppose they think it stops there, so when the unresolved suffering rears its hydra heads, they find it quite limited... but perhaps don't notice the existential hint life is offering. Interestingly, the Greek for 'chaos' means that which is birthed from the void. Most people fear chaos now as that which is total disorder in their finite conception of the cosmos. Rather than question their limited conception, they (unconsciously) choose to hold to it, rather than be open to infinite potential (present just this side of the void) which would transcend the limited conception. Mayhaps it's the 'desire/need' for instant gratification. After all, those big 'ole black holes sure look spooky, and those conceptions of Nothingness/Void/Space sure seem meaningless. |
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Post by laughter on Jun 29, 2024 14:56:06 GMT -5
Even people peeps with no interest in the existential question have a point of reference for that .. "mental space". Yup. I suppose they think it stops there, so when the unresolved suffering rears its hydra heads, they find it quite limited... but perhaps don't notice the existential hint life is offering. Interestingly, the Greek for 'chaos' means that which is birthed from the void. Most people fear chaos now as that which is total disorder in their finite conception of the cosmos. Rather than question their limited conception, they (unconsciously) choose to hold to it, rather than be open to infinite potential (present just this side of the void) which would transcend the limited conception. Mayhaps it's the 'desire/need' for instant gratification. After all, those big 'ole black holes sure look spooky, and those conceptions of Nothingness/Void/Space sure seem meaningless. The mind's conception of void is one of Plato's shadows, a hint of the unknown. It's why horror movies are so popular. All a matter of degree, of course, and ever with a flip side. ZD, satch, andy, gopal figs, lolz, jly and you (among others) have described (either directly or indirectly) a fascination of sorts with it the years prior to (various) realization. I can relate to that. (how did I forget Sharon in that list??  ) |
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