Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2014 18:43:14 GMT -5
The rihjt-hand/left-hand experiment sets limitations such that the subject is likely to reveal a bias ahead of the activity.. the 'decision point' is not likely made by neuro-transmitters that activate the meat-puppet.. there is another system, significantly quicker than the CNS (central nervous system), it is the connective tissue system (CTS), the 'body-mind'.. there are processes happening that most people aren't aware of, but which are easily integrated into the more complete holistic human experience.. these are activities and sensory input comprehensions that function in harmony with who/what the experiencer has evolved into.. the CTS and its integration into the experiencer's conscious participation expands awareness exponentially, revealing potentials most people have not even noticed.. It is interesting to observe people willing to abandon their opportunity to choose liberation due to an experiment based on if/then suppositions and conclusions limited to the examiner's bias.. remain open to more comprehensive evidence of what is happening, attaching to the evidence you want to believe is not the same as observing all the evidence while allowing for the actuality that you do not have 'all' of the evidence.. Where are you getting this concept of connective tissue system from? I'm not familiar with it. He's referring to the body. Which is either real or unreal depending on the model you are using. In this case tzu is using the conventional model of reality. Which means anything goes. |
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Post by laughter on May 7, 2014 20:52:27 GMT -5
The difficulty can be cast as an error with regard to the orientation toward the notion of time. Where does one thought begin and the next end? Where does the signal of the pain of the fire on the hand transition into the impulse to pull it away? We divide experience up into little bits but there is a fundamental error at the root of this, and that of course can segue us into the minding available from Physics. (** left hand volitionlessly pulls right away from keyboard **) Happily we've got those little reflex loops that get the hand away from the fire quicker than our plodding brains are capable. Consciousness or awareness is after the fact. I see Professor Campbell arriving again sometime soon.  |
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Post by tzujanli on May 7, 2014 21:19:51 GMT -5
The rihjt-hand/left-hand experiment sets limitations such that the subject is likely to reveal a bias ahead of the activity.. the 'decision point' is not likely made by neuro-transmitters that activate the meat-puppet.. there is another system, significantly quicker than the CNS (central nervous system), it is the connective tissue system (CTS), the 'body-mind'.. there are processes happening that most people aren't aware of, but which are easily integrated into the more complete holistic human experience.. these are activities and sensory input comprehensions that function in harmony with who/what the experiencer has evolved into.. the CTS and its integration into the experiencer's conscious participation expands awareness exponentially, revealing potentials most people have not even noticed.. It is interesting to observe people willing to abandon their opportunity to choose liberation due to an experiment based on if/then suppositions and conclusions limited to the examiner's bias.. remain open to more comprehensive evidence of what is happening, attaching to the evidence you want to believe is not the same as observing all the evidence while allowing for the actuality that you do not have 'all' of the evidence.. Where are you getting this concept of connective tissue system from? I'm not familiar with it. After being made aware of the CTS, i informed myself.. i read the first 200 hits on google, including many of the references.. was able to understand the functional relationship between the CTS and Tensegrity, and the properties similar to LCDs that allow the CTS to change from state to state nearly instantly.. more importantly, the CTS wraps and integrates with every cell in the body, it is the 'stuff' between the cells and ininside the cells.. as such, the CTS 'feels' every vibration, including wavelengths/frequencies we are usually unaware of, the 'vibes' we hear so much about.. Suspending the thinking mind's chatter, the still-minded awareness senses information from 'senses' it was largely unaware of, revealing a remarkable experience of Cosmic proportions, sight, sound, feeling, taste and smell so exponentially enhanced and expanded that it is realized as the experience of 'isness', you as isness, and isness as you.. the CTS is the sensor array that feels/senses the energies/frequencies that are actually happening, and the mind occasionally pays attention to that portal of clarity.. the CTS acts like fiber-optics, transporting light signals emitted by the human body throughout the body, for reasons not yet clear.. For the last 20 or so years science has been paying ever-increasing attention to this long-overlooked integral piece of the human puzzle.. science is one of the many senses the human can use to better understand the relationship between the part and the whole, it's not the 'only' sense though.. science/intellect, like still-minded awareness, like open-mindedness, like unconditionally curious consciousness, is one vehicle among many through which information is made known to the experiencer.. staying cooped-up in the mind all the time distorts the experiencer's clarity.. The whole person, the fully engaged human experience, pays attention to all of the information.. and has the volition to choose which options revealed by that information will apply to the evolution of the human experience, both individually and collectively.. the human experience is a synergistic and symbiotic process, a physical happening on this limitless adventure.. |
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lou
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Post by lou on May 7, 2014 21:34:50 GMT -5
Hi, I'm new to the forum and probs going arse about with my inability to know how these things work. :-) However, I was just watching a Youtube video last night on the subject of free will and it has prompted me to add link here . m.youtube.com/watch?v=kYkf7L0oY84 |
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2014 21:58:59 GMT -5
Hi, I'm new to the forum and probs going arse about with my inability to know how these things work. :-) However, I was just watching a Youtube video last night on the subject of free will and it has prompted me to add link here . m.youtube.com/watch?v=kYkf7L0oY84It's easy. You didn't decide to post here. |
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Post by laughter on May 8, 2014 1:15:49 GMT -5
Hi, I'm new to the forum and probs going arse about with my inability to know how these things work. :-) However, I was just watching a Youtube video last night on the subject of free will and it has prompted me to add link here . m.youtube.com/watch?v=kYkf7L0oY84Welcome to the st.org forum lou. From last years single post I see you're familiar with TAT and ZD and are from down under. Please consider an intro thread. Nice to hear from you! |
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Post by tzujanli on May 8, 2014 5:23:13 GMT -5
Where are you getting this concept of connective tissue system from? I'm not familiar with it. He's referring to the body. Which is either real or unreal depending on the model you are using. In this case tzu is using the conventional model of reality. Which means anything goes. I'm referring to Life, describing one facet of a holistic totality that is the human experience.. some people choose to isolate themselves in extreme perspectives, and rationalize why other perspectives might not be valid.. it is the totality of perspectives, the collective 'whole', that transcends the individual's limitations, and.. the shift from individuated perspective to whole perspective is a choice away, a release into the wholeness, a letting go of 'us/them ' In some situations the person has autonomous volition, in other situations no ability to effect change, it's the way things are.. the reference to a "conventional model of reality', is your choice of descriptions for a perspective different from the model you've chosen, an unconventional model.. do you believe you are right, or that you are more in harmony with what is happening that those that fit into your ideas about the 'conventional model'? |
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Post by tzujanli on May 8, 2014 5:27:07 GMT -5
Where are you getting this concept of connective tissue system from? I'm not familiar with it. He's referring to the body. Which is either real or unreal depending on the model you are using. In this case tzu is using the conventional model of reality. Which means anything goes. I'm referring to Life, describing one facet of a holistic totality that is the human experience.. some people choose to isolate themselves in extreme perspectives, and rationalize why other perspectives might not be valid.. it is the totality of perspectives, the collective 'whole', that transcends the individual's limitations, and.. the shift from individuated perspective to whole perspective is a choice away, a release into the wholeness, a letting go of 'us vs them ~ me vs you' models.. it is a unification.. In some situations the person has autonomous volition, in other situations no ability to effect change, it's the way things are.. the reference to a "conventional model of reality', is your choice of descriptions for a perspective different from the model you've chosen, an unconventional model.. do you believe you are right, or that you are more in harmony with what is happening that those that fit into your ideas about the 'conventional model'? |
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Post by quinn on May 8, 2014 6:03:51 GMT -5
Hi, I'm new to the forum and probs going arse about with my inability to know how these things work. :-) However, I was just watching a Youtube video last night on the subject of free will and it has prompted me to add link here . m.youtube.com/watch?v=kYkf7L0oY84Enjoyed that lou - thanks. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2014 9:11:13 GMT -5
Where are you getting this concept of connective tissue system from? I'm not familiar with it. After being made aware of the CTS, i informed myself.. i read the first 200 hits on google, including many of the references.. was able to understand the functional relationship between the CTS and Tensegrity, and the properties similar to LCDs that allow the CTS to change from state to state nearly instantly.. more importantly, the CTS wraps and integrates with every cell in the body, it is the 'stuff' between the cells and ininside the cells.. as such, the CTS 'feels' every vibration, including wavelengths/frequencies we are usually unaware of, the 'vibes' we hear so much about.. Suspending the thinking mind's chatter, the still-minded awareness senses information from 'senses' it was largely unaware of, revealing a remarkable experience of Cosmic proportions, sight, sound, feeling, taste and smell so exponentially enhanced and expanded that it is realized as the experience of 'isness', you as isness, and isness as you.. the CTS is the sensor array that feels/senses the energies/frequencies that are actually happening, and the mind occasionally pays attention to that portal of clarity.. the CTS acts like fiber-optics, transporting light signals emitted by the human body throughout the body, for reasons not yet clear.. For the last 20 or so years science has been paying ever-increasing attention to this long-overlooked integral piece of the human puzzle.. science is one of the many senses the human can use to better understand the relationship between the part and the whole, it's not the 'only' sense though.. science/intellect, like still-minded awareness, like open-mindedness, like unconditionally curious consciousness, is one vehicle among many through which information is made known to the experiencer.. staying cooped-up in the mind all the time distorts the experiencer's clarity.. The whole person, the fully engaged human experience, pays attention to all of the information.. and has the volition to choose which options revealed by that information will apply to the evolution of the human experience, both individually and collectively.. the human experience is a synergistic and symbiotic process, a physical happening on this limitless adventure.. Is there any actual falsifiable, reproduceable scientific research on CTS's fiber optics capabilities? Or is it just more snakeoil spin? |
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2014 11:44:16 GMT -5
He's referring to the body. Which is either real or unreal depending on the model you are using. In this case tzu is using the conventional model of reality. Which means anything goes. I'm referring to Life, describing one facet of a holistic totality that is the human experience.. some people choose to isolate themselves in extreme perspectives, and rationalize why other perspectives might not be valid.. it is the totality of perspectives, the collective 'whole', that transcends the individual's limitations, and.. the shift from individuated perspective to whole perspective is a choice away, a release into the wholeness, a letting go of 'us/them ' In some situations the person has autonomous volition, in other situations no ability to effect change, it's the way things are.. the reference to a "conventional model of reality', is your choice of descriptions for a perspective different from the model you've chosen, an unconventional model.. do you believe you are right, or that you are more in harmony with what is happening that those that fit into your ideas about the 'conventional model'? The conventional model of reality that I'm referring to is the one in which, I am a body which resides in a world with other bodies. In my body I have a brain and in the brain is consciousness. You were making claims about central nervous systems and connective tissue systems. I don't have a problem with the claims, I'm just saying that they fall within the conventional model of reality in which a real body is a major component. The advaita or non duality model is more in line with the scientific model that states that there is no body as such. That rather we start with consciousness and then work our way out to the arising of a mind, an I or subject, that chops reality up into objects, like thoughts, sensations, perceptions, people and relationships. The non-duality model is different than the conventional model of reality but that doesn't mean that it isn't a practical model like a conventional model. For me once I tried the model, I found it to be closer to my actual experience than the conventional model. Getting closer to my actual experience has the affect of relieving the mind of most of its delusional activity. |
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Post by laughter on May 8, 2014 12:15:59 GMT -5
I'm referring to Life, describing one facet of a holistic totality that is the human experience.. some people choose to isolate themselves in extreme perspectives, and rationalize why other perspectives might not be valid.. it is the totality of perspectives, the collective 'whole', that transcends the individual's limitations, and.. the shift from individuated perspective to whole perspective is a choice away, a release into the wholeness, a letting go of 'us/them ' In some situations the person has autonomous volition, in other situations no ability to effect change, it's the way things are.. the reference to a "conventional model of reality', is your choice of descriptions for a perspective different from the model you've chosen, an unconventional model.. do you believe you are right, or that you are more in harmony with what is happening that those that fit into your ideas about the 'conventional model'? The conventional model of reality that I'm referring to is the one in which, I am a body which resides in a world with other bodies. In my body I have a brain and in the brain is consciousness. You were making claims about central nervous systems and connective tissue systems. I don't have a problem with the claims, I'm just saying that they fall within the conventional model of reality in which a real body is a major component. The advaita or non duality model is more in line with the scientific model that states that there is no body as such. That rather we start with consciousness and then work our way out to the arising of a mind, an I or subject, that chops reality up into objects, like thoughts, sensations, perceptions, people and relationships. The non-duality model is different than the conventional model of reality but that doesn't mean that it isn't a practical model like a conventional model. For me once I tried the model, I found it to be closer to my actual experience than the conventional model. Getting closer to my actual experience has the affect of relieving the mind of most of its delusional activity.Simply looking at the world and comparing all the stories based on the conventional model with what's actually going on can be profoundly informative depending on how big a factor the consensus trance is in our experience. There's an irony here in that the resulting transition sets the notion of commonsense and what is referenced by the word "reality" upside down and inside out and leaves it standing on its head. |
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Post by topology on May 8, 2014 13:29:51 GMT -5
I'm referring to Life, describing one facet of a holistic totality that is the human experience.. some people choose to isolate themselves in extreme perspectives, and rationalize why other perspectives might not be valid.. it is the totality of perspectives, the collective 'whole', that transcends the individual's limitations, and.. the shift from individuated perspective to whole perspective is a choice away, a release into the wholeness, a letting go of 'us/them ' In some situations the person has autonomous volition, in other situations no ability to effect change, it's the way things are.. the reference to a "conventional model of reality', is your choice of descriptions for a perspective different from the model you've chosen, an unconventional model.. do you believe you are right, or that you are more in harmony with what is happening that those that fit into your ideas about the 'conventional model'? The conventional model of reality that I'm referring to is the one in which, I am a body which resides in a world with other bodies. In my body I have a brain and in the brain is consciousness. You were making claims about central nervous systems and connective tissue systems. I don't have a problem with the claims, I'm just saying that they fall within the conventional model of reality in which a real body is a major component. The advaita or non duality model is more in line with the scientific model that states that there is no body as such. That rather we start with consciousness and then work our way out to the arising of a mind, an I or subject, that chops reality up into objects, like thoughts, sensations, perceptions, people and relationships. The non-duality model is different than the conventional model of reality but that doesn't mean that it isn't a practical model like a conventional model. For me once I tried the model, I found it to be closer to my actual experience than the conventional model. Getting closer to my actual experience has the affect of relieving the mind of most of its delusional activity. Which scientific model are you referring to? The physicists that like to wax non-dualism tend to get looked at askance by the rest of the body of science. Phenomenologists tend to be looked at askance by the rest of the field of Philosophy. Trans-personal psychologists tend to get looked at askance in psychology. There is an inherent bias in science towards the conventional model as the activity of science is about testing theories and discretizing the world. Reduction to the physical model has yielded the most "control" over the apparent world. You can test the material properties of a rock, break it up and mine the minerals within it. But how do you test the consciousness of a rock? How do you test the consciousness of another person? |
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2014 13:41:22 GMT -5
The conventional model of reality that I'm referring to is the one in which, I am a body which resides in a world with other bodies. In my body I have a brain and in the brain is consciousness. You were making claims about central nervous systems and connective tissue systems. I don't have a problem with the claims, I'm just saying that they fall within the conventional model of reality in which a real body is a major component. The advaita or non duality model is more in line with the scientific model that states that there is no body as such. That rather we start with consciousness and then work our way out to the arising of a mind, an I or subject, that chops reality up into objects, like thoughts, sensations, perceptions, people and relationships. The non-duality model is different than the conventional model of reality but that doesn't mean that it isn't a practical model like a conventional model. For me once I tried the model, I found it to be closer to my actual experience than the conventional model. Getting closer to my actual experience has the affect of relieving the mind of most of its delusional activity. Which scientific model are you referring to? The physicists that like to wax non-dualism tend to get looked at askance by the rest of the body of science. Phenomenologists tend to be looked at askance by the rest of the field of Philosophy. Trans-personal psychologists tend to get looked at askance in psychology. There is an inherent bias in science towards the conventional model as the activity of science is about testing theories and discretizing the world. Reduction to the physical model has yielded the most "control" over the apparent world. You can test the material properties of a rock, break it up and mine the minerals within it. But how do you test the consciousness of a rock? How do you test the consciousness of another person? What I mean by scientific model is the exploration of matter or what makes up the objects of an apparent universe. We can explore the objects of the mind or we can explore the mind itself. Despite the different paths of exploration they both ultimately arrive at the same conclusion. Pure consciousness. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on May 8, 2014 16:28:15 GMT -5
I don't doubt that Mr. Libet's experiments are accurate. His mistake is to consider that the conscious mind as self. Self is the conscious mind plus the unconscious, subconscious(psychological) and unconscious neurological processing. So the fact that the conscious mind is behind the neurological processing by a second or so means very little. sdp As far as I know Libet didn't talk about self. As I recall, Libet asked has subjects, whenever you choose to do so, lift your finger. What else could he have meant? I think that was his whole point............ sdp |
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