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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2014 19:58:37 GMT -5
Sure. "Inner peace must be some kind of delusion, since conflict is inherent in life" Now, I don't want to conjecture about the truth value of the statement, I just know that it is typical of my thinking. Would it be fair to characterize the thought as negative? yes, I think so. |
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Post by laughter on Apr 25, 2014 20:01:13 GMT -5
Would it be fair to characterize the thought as negative? yes, I think so. And it's repetitive (it recurs)? -- (which would indicate that you're interested in it .. btw) |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2014 20:30:45 GMT -5
I've tried, but it is difficult because I just get absorbed in the mind. Thats okay, there is nothing that says you have failed if you go from being aware of mind movements to being absorbed by them...when you realize that you got absorbed, just chuckle it off, FORGIVE YOURSELF, and go back to being aware of thoughts for as long as it lasts. Just keep returning, and eventually it will become more common that you aware than unaware, just persist, without beating yourself up. Some methods that are pretty good for dealing with incessant thinking: 1. Watch VERY alertly for each though to appear, try to catch the moment it appears, like you are watching for a drop of water to drip from the faucet so you can catch it....just watch intently. 2. See your thoughts as clouds passing through a clear blue sky...just watch the thoughts pass by in the distant spaciousness of the sky. 3. Imagine an empty space inside your tongue, a totally empty void, and focus your attention on the dark empty void inside your tongue. 4. Sit quietly and focus on the breath moving in and out, see where the natural 'thresholds are where the breath turns from in to out, and out to in, then consciously breath in a little deeper than normal, and breath out a little further than normal, do this for ten breaths, counting each breath, on the 11th breath, and each one after that, continue to breath in a little deeper than normal, and out a little further than normal, but instead of counting, each time you breath out, when the outward breath has gone below the normal threshold for outward breath, give a sharp little exhale by pulling the belly button inward, and just STOP all movement of breath for just a moment. Repeat that on each breath. (Make sure you are belly breathing, not just breathing in this practice, this is VERY important. All of these will make a kind of 'space', or a gap...keep coming back to that gap, and centering your attention on it, and the space will increase, while the volume of the BS in life gets turned down ;-) I'll try it, empty. But see, already there are all these memories of reading UG Krishnamurti disparaging meditation, so I'm like "what's the point if it doesn't work?" I think I've read so many different people that I dont know what's what anymore. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2014 20:33:05 GMT -5
And it's repetitive (it recurs)? -- (which would indicate that you're interested in it .. btw) yes, it just goes around incessantly. |
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Post by silver on Apr 25, 2014 20:34:03 GMT -5
That's ok. It takes time to digest all that...thing is, you don't have to read a single thing by any teachers. Now, enigma with that sincerity thingy -- yeah.  |
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Post by laughter on Apr 25, 2014 20:38:58 GMT -5
Thats okay, there is nothing that says you have failed if you go from being aware of mind movements to being absorbed by them...when you realize that you got absorbed, just chuckle it off, FORGIVE YOURSELF, and go back to being aware of thoughts for as long as it lasts. Just keep returning, and eventually it will become more common that you aware than unaware, just persist, without beating yourself up. Some methods that are pretty good for dealing with incessant thinking: 1. Watch VERY alertly for each though to appear, try to catch the moment it appears, like you are watching for a drop of water to drip from the faucet so you can catch it....just watch intently. 2. See your thoughts as clouds passing through a clear blue sky...just watch the thoughts pass by in the distant spaciousness of the sky. 3. Imagine an empty space inside your tongue, a totally empty void, and focus your attention on the dark empty void inside your tongue. 4. Sit quietly and focus on the breath moving in and out, see where the natural 'thresholds are where the breath turns from in to out, and out to in, then consciously breath in a little deeper than normal, and breath out a little further than normal, do this for ten breaths, counting each breath, on the 11th breath, and each one after that, continue to breath in a little deeper than normal, and out a little further than normal, but instead of counting, each time you breath out, when the outward breath has gone below the normal threshold for outward breath, give a sharp little exhale by pulling the belly button inward, and just STOP all movement of breath for just a moment. Repeat that on each breath. (Make sure you are belly breathing, not just breathing in this practice, this is VERY important. All of these will make a kind of 'space', or a gap...keep coming back to that gap, and centering your attention on it, and the space will increase, while the volume of the BS in life gets turned down ;-) I'll try it, empty. But see, already there are all these memories of reading UG Krishnamurti disparaging meditation, so I'm like "what's the point if it doesn't work?" I think I've read so many different people that I dont know what's what anymore. UG's point is kinda' specialized: meditation doesn't lead directly to realization. Silencing the nahbob is something different from realization. |
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Post by laughter on Apr 25, 2014 20:47:41 GMT -5
And it's repetitive (it recurs)? -- (which would indicate that you're interested in it .. btw) yes, it just goes around incessantly. O.k. I got one more simple question about it, but before that please indulge me in a detour. Does this ring a bell at all? Would you say that this describes the "self defeating fear machine"?
You have probably come across "mad" people in the street incessantly talking or muttering to themselves. Well, that's not much different from what you and all other "normal" people do, except that you don't do it out loud. The voice in your head comments, speculates, judges, compares, complains, likes, dislikes, and so on. The voice isn't necessarily relevant to the situation you find yourself in at the time; it may be reviving the recent or distant past or rehearsing or imagining possible future situations. Here it often imagines things going wrong and negative outcomes; this is called worry. Sometimes this soundtrack is accompanied by visual images or "mental movies." Even if the voice is relevant to the situation at hand, it will interpret it in terms of the past. This is because the voice belongs to your conditioned mind, which is the result of all your past history as well as of the collective cultural mind-set you inherited. So you see and judge the present through the eyes of the past and get a totally distorted view of it. It is not uncommon for the voice to be a person's own worst enemy. Many people live with a tormentor in their head that continuously attacks and punishes them and drains them of vital energy. It is the cause of untold misery and unhappiness, as well as of disease. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2014 20:50:35 GMT -5
yes, it just goes around incessantly. O.k. I got one more simple question about it, but before that please indulge me in a detour. Does this ring a bell at all? Would you say that this describes the "self defeating fear machine"?
You have probably come across "mad" people in the street incessantly talking or muttering to themselves. Well, that's not much different from what you and all other "normal" people do, except that you don't do it out loud. The voice in your head comments, speculates, judges, compares, complains, likes, dislikes, and so on. The voice isn't necessarily relevant to the situation you find yourself in at the time; it may be reviving the recent or distant past or rehearsing or imagining possible future situations. Here it often imagines things going wrong and negative outcomes; this is called worry. Sometimes this soundtrack is accompanied by visual images or "mental movies." Even if the voice is relevant to the situation at hand, it will interpret it in terms of the past. This is because the voice belongs to your conditioned mind, which is the result of all your past history as well as of the collective cultural mind-set you inherited. So you see and judge the present through the eyes of the past and get a totally distorted view of it. It is not uncommon for the voice to be a person's own worst enemy. Many people live with a tormentor in their head that continuously attacks and punishes them and drains them of vital energy. It is the cause of untold misery and unhappiness, as well as of disease. yes, that describes much of it |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2014 20:54:48 GMT -5
Thats okay, there is nothing that says you have failed if you go from being aware of mind movements to being absorbed by them...when you realize that you got absorbed, just chuckle it off, FORGIVE YOURSELF, and go back to being aware of thoughts for as long as it lasts. Just keep returning, and eventually it will become more common that you aware than unaware, just persist, without beating yourself up. S ome methods that are pretty good for dealing with incessant thinking:1. Watch VERY alertly for each though to appear, try to catch the moment it appears, like you are watching for a drop of water to drip from the faucet so you can catch it....just watch intently. 2. See your thoughts as clouds passing through a clear blue sky...just watch the thoughts pass by in the distant spaciousness of the sky. 3. While holding the tongue very still, imagine an empty space inside your tongue, a totally empty void, and focus your attention on the dark empty void inside your tongue. 4. Sit quietly and focus on the breath moving in and out, see where the natural 'thresholds are where the breath turns from in to out, and out to in, then consciously breath in a little deeper than normal, and breath out a little further than normal, do this for ten breaths, counting each breath, on the 11th breath, and each one after that, continue to breath in a little deeper than normal, and out a little further than normal, but instead of counting, each time you breath out, when the outward breath has gone below the normal threshold for outward breath, give a sharp little exhale by pulling the belly button inward, and just STOP all movement of breath for just a moment. Repeat that on each breath. (Make sure you are belly breathing, not chest breathing in this practice, this is VERY important. All of these will make a kind of 'space', or a gap...keep coming back to that gap, and centering your attention on it, and the space will increase, while the volume of the BS in life gets turned down ;-) I'll try it, empty. But see, already there are all these memories of reading UG Krishnamurti disparaging meditation, so I'm like "what's the point if it doesn't work?" I think I've read so many different people that I dont know what's what anymore. Forget about meditation supposing to work or not work for some purpose or outcome, do it as though the meditation itself is both the purpose and the outcome...in other words, meditate for meditation's sake, not as a means to something or someplace else. |
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Post by laughter on Apr 25, 2014 21:08:52 GMT -5
I'll try it, empty. But see, already there are all these memories of reading UG Krishnamurti disparaging meditation, so I'm like "what's the point if it doesn't work?" I think I've read so many different people that I dont know what's what anymore. Forget about meditation supposing to work or not work for some purpose or outcome, do it as though the meditation itself is both the purpose and the outcome...in other words, meditate for meditation's sake, not as a means to something or someplace else. Yes, well said. |
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Post by laughter on Apr 25, 2014 21:09:49 GMT -5
O.k. I got one more simple question about it, but before that please indulge me in a detour. Does this ring a bell at all? Would you say that this describes the "self defeating fear machine"?
You have probably come across "mad" people in the street incessantly talking or muttering to themselves. Well, that's not much different from what you and all other "normal" people do, except that you don't do it out loud. The voice in your head comments, speculates, judges, compares, complains, likes, dislikes, and so on. The voice isn't necessarily relevant to the situation you find yourself in at the time; it may be reviving the recent or distant past or rehearsing or imagining possible future situations. Here it often imagines things going wrong and negative outcomes; this is called worry. Sometimes this soundtrack is accompanied by visual images or "mental movies." Even if the voice is relevant to the situation at hand, it will interpret it in terms of the past. This is because the voice belongs to your conditioned mind, which is the result of all your past history as well as of the collective cultural mind-set you inherited. So you see and judge the present through the eyes of the past and get a totally distorted view of it. It is not uncommon for the voice to be a person's own worst enemy. Many people live with a tormentor in their head that continuously attacks and punishes them and drains them of vital energy. It is the cause of untold misery and unhappiness, as well as of disease. yes, that describes much of it Have thoughts like the one you gave as the example ever been of use to you in any way? Have you ever benefited from them? |
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Post by enigma on Apr 25, 2014 21:38:34 GMT -5
Also, when one succeeds in fulfilling the needs of another, what naturally follows is more needs to fulfill. The weight of endless expectations quickly becomes burdensome. Who does it become burdensome to? Where does the 'weight' rest? To the one intent on fulfilling the needs of others.  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2014 21:41:00 GMT -5
yes, that describes much of it Have thoughts like the one you gave as the example ever been of use to you in any way? Have you ever benefited from them? no, not at all. |
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Post by enigma on Apr 25, 2014 21:45:16 GMT -5
Haha! Read this just before I left for meditation group and it kept popping up in my sit. I never heard 'lung dart' before - it's perfect! Darts cut in half, so far. Excellent, really great news. It seems to be moving in a positive direction. Also, some twisted thinking has been uncovered and the effects of that are still moving around. We'll see though - I have a history of deviousness in this particular area. whelp, when ya's ready fer the wreckin' crew, you know where to find'em ..  **Stands quietly with sledge hammer resting on shoulder....** |
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Post by laughter on Apr 25, 2014 22:22:38 GMT -5
Have thoughts like the one you gave as the example ever been of use to you in any way? Have you ever benefited from them? no, not at all. More Tolle .. here's the quote I was talking about:
Your mind is an instrument, a tool. It is there to be used for a specific task, and when the task is completed, you lay it down. As it is, I would say about 80 to 90 percent of most peoples thinking is not only repetitive and useless, but because of its dysfunctional and often negative nature, much of it is also harmful. Observe your mind and you will find this to be true. It causes a serious leakage of vital energy.So I took his advice to "watch the thinker" and I looked to see for myself .. were most of my thoughts these repetitive useless negative, energy-sucking loops?  .. When I realized he was right, I lost interest in those thoughts. They simply dried up.  Hey, if you're interested in trying this for yourself let me know and I'll share a paragraph from Tolle and what I see as the key to the whole shootin' match in my own words -- please don't feel obligated to listen to any of that though. If you're not interested, that's way more than fine man. |
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