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Post by quinn on Apr 25, 2014 13:10:44 GMT -5
Yeah, thanks Steve. That's something we've noticed, too. The local gyms are offering meditation classes for the health benefits. Nothing wrong with that, but it's not the type we're doing. My meditations are rarely relaxing. Sounds like my kind of meditation! Yeehaah! Be careful what you wish for.  |
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Post by quinn on Apr 25, 2014 13:19:50 GMT -5
I don't know where you found a poet known for 'Dirty Realism' and 'Transgressive Fiction' (not to mention a newspaper column "Notes From a Dirty Old Man"), but I'll take that as a compliment.  Yes it's definitely a compliment. I'd rather someone teaching meditation is coming off the frontlines of a cig break than from a patchouli scented hot tub with Yanni. Yeah, me too. Probably why I like Paul Hedderman's approach to non-duality. Funnily enough, this is in the area of that twisted thinking I mentioned. Something about not losing that tortured soul bizness and the relate-ability of it. Or something. Haven't quite digested it yet. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2014 13:31:34 GMT -5
Deep meditative states can replace sleep, so one would think that insomnia may ensue kinda commonly in a beginning to middling meditator that is meditating regularly. Quinn, if you are not already, try to ever increase the alertness in your meditation sessions. Ever INCREASE it no matter how alert you feel. EKG's have shown that in beginning to moderate meditators,the brain waves that represent relaxation are more prevalent in more parts of the brain than they are in a non-meditation. Like the whole brain lights up with those relaxation type brain waves. But a very small percentage of meditators, in the most 'advanced' state of meditation, have nearly equal occurrence of both relaxation type brain waves, and a kind of brain wave associated with hyper alertness all going on at the same time...and a much larger percentage of the overall brain is activated by both types of waves than is activated in just about any other type of activity....more of the brain lights up with simultaneous relaxation and hyper alert brain waves in the deepest kinds of meditation. Alertness is not often emphasized enough in meditation classes these days, cause so many people focus on the stress relieving aspect of meditation...the result is a kinda relaxing trancelike meditation, that if practiced often, can lead to insomnia. Another thought about this: Interesting that my sleep patterns are being affected by hypnotic suggestion. It's kind of a given in meditation circles that you can need less sleep if you meditate a lot. Also, it's common thought that the older you get, the less sleep you need. But look at what's happening by merely addressing thoughts like the hypnotist is doing. 'Thoughts create reality' isn't just a platitude. Yeah, where your attention is focussed at any given moment has a big impact on your thoughts, and your thought activities influence all other activities in your experience. I suspect that the hypnotherapy is shifting attention from insomnia and other thought activities to restful sleep at just the right time, and the associated shift in experience follows. Do you do an early morning meditation session? |
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Post by quinn on Apr 25, 2014 13:46:06 GMT -5
Another thought about this: Interesting that my sleep patterns are being affected by hypnotic suggestion. It's kind of a given in meditation circles that you can need less sleep if you meditate a lot. Also, it's common thought that the older you get, the less sleep you need. But look at what's happening by merely addressing thoughts like the hypnotist is doing. 'Thoughts create reality' isn't just a platitude. Yeah, where your attention is focussed at any given moment has a big impact on your thoughts, and your thought activities influence all other activities in your experience. I suspect that the hypnotherapy is shifting attention from insomnia and other thought activities to restful sleep at just the right time, and the associated shift in experience follows. Do you do an early morning meditation session? It's varied a lot over the years. Lately, it's morphed into short meditations throughout the day - not a formal sit. It might just be a little breath awareness if I'm feeling off-kilter, or more often it's just sitting quietly with a thought. Not thinking, per se, but sitting quietly with a bit of an intention. Once a week is the big formal sit. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2014 14:03:17 GMT -5
Yeah, where your attention is focussed at any given moment has a big impact on your thoughts, and your thought activities influence all other activities in your experience. I suspect that the hypnotherapy is shifting attention from insomnia and other thought activities to restful sleep at just the right time, and the associated shift in experience follows. Do you do an early morning meditation session? It's varied a lot over the years. Lately, it's morphed into short meditations throughout the day - not a formal sit. It might just be a little breath awareness if I'm feeling off-kilter, or more often it's just sitting quietly with a thought. Not thinking, per se, but sitting quietly with a bit of an intention. Once a week is the big formal sit. Thats good, better is to increase those informal meditation moments in frequency, until 'best': Everything in every moment is a kind of alert meditation experience, every activity, every moment can be meditatively alert and expanded. Having said that, maintaining a daily formal meditation session is advisable, with the bonus side effect, that if you do an alert Zazen type sit in the early morning every day, it may help with more amenable sleep patterns. There seem to be two halves to meditation, a relaxation bit that relaxes the barriers of expanded consciousness that we self create and maintain, and an alertness bit that increases clarity...both together seem to serve to expand consciousness AND clarity...in those formal meditation sessions, one tends to move deeper into meditation than in the informal sessions, which is to say that one removes more self induced limitations to consciousness, while reaching higher levels of alert clarity than in those spontaneous informal meditative moments. Really, the goal should be to have every moment characterized by the expanded consciousness and alert clarity of deep meditation, and the more frequently you 'go deeper', the easier it is to maintain, or carry that over into every aspect of this unfolding moment. Frequency seems to transmute it from a kind if easy effort to initiate, to a natural state. |
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Post by quinn on Apr 25, 2014 14:23:50 GMT -5
Thats good, better is to increase those informal meditation moments in frequency, until 'best': Everything in every moment is a kind of alert meditation experience, every activity, every moment can be meditatively alert and expanded. Having said that, maintaining a daily formal meditation session is advisable, with the bonus side effect, that if you do an alert Zazen type sit in the early morning every day, it may help with more amenable sleep patterns. There seem to be two halves to meditation, a relaxation that relaxes the barriers of awareness and consciousness that we self create and maintain, and an alertness that increase clarity...both together seem to serve to expand consciousness and clarity...in those formal meditation sessions, one tends to move deeper into meditation than in the informal sessions, which is to say that one removes more self induced limitations to consciousness, while reaching higher levels of alert clarity than in those spontaneous informal meditative moments. Really, the goal should be to have every moment characterized by the expanded consciousness and alert clarity of deep meditation, and the more frequently you 'go deeper', the easier it is to maintain, or carry that over into every aspect of this unfolding moment. Well, like I said, the practice has morphed. I didn't morph it and I'm loath to mess with the process. Interesting about decreasing the barriers. I hadn't really noticed that in my own meditation, but I sure did in the hypnotherapy sessions. After the first session, in reflection of it, I thought, "Sheesh, I accepted every single thing she said." There was no argument whatsoever in my head. And she's saying repulsive things like, "Sometimes I even want to break the cigarette in half." Haha! You can bet normally there'd be some barrier put up against that thought. Do you have any idea what cigarettes cost in New Jersey?? So yeah, the barrier thing is very interesting. As far as carrying the meditation 'off the mat', that's the whole point, eh? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2014 14:37:24 GMT -5
Thats good, better is to increase those informal meditation moments in frequency, until 'best': Everything in every moment is a kind of alert meditation experience, every activity, every moment can be meditatively alert and expanded. Having said that, maintaining a daily formal meditation session is advisable, with the bonus side effect, that if you do an alert Zazen type sit in the early morning every day, it may help with more amenable sleep patterns. There seem to be two halves to meditation, a relaxation that relaxes the barriers of awareness and consciousness that we self create and maintain, and an alertness that increase clarity...both together seem to serve to expand consciousness and clarity...in those formal meditation sessions, one tends to move deeper into meditation than in the informal sessions, which is to say that one removes more self induced limitations to consciousness, while reaching higher levels of alert clarity than in those spontaneous informal meditative moments. Really, the goal should be to have every moment characterized by the expanded consciousness and alert clarity of deep meditation, and the more frequently you 'go deeper', the easier it is to maintain, or carry that over into every aspect of this unfolding moment. Well, like I said, the practice has morphed. I didn't morph it and I'm loath to mess with the process. Interesting about decreasing the barriers. I hadn't really noticed that in my own meditation, but I sure did in the hypnotherapy sessions. After the first session, in reflection of it, I thought, "Sheesh, I accepted every single thing she said." There was no argument whatsoever in my head. And she's saying repulsive things like, "Sometimes I even want to break the cigarette in half." Haha! You can bet normally there'd be some barrier put up against that thought. Do you have any idea what cigarettes cost in New Jersey?? So yeah, the barrier thing is very interesting. As far as carrying the meditation 'off the mat', that's the whole point, eh? Hypnosis is the deep relaxation part of Meditation, without the expanded alertness and clarity. |
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Post by laughter on Apr 25, 2014 15:05:49 GMT -5
WIBIGO: copout dodge.  The copout dodge disguised as forgetfulness or lack of intellectual power is a tricky one. In the taxonomy of WIBIGO defense mechanisms I'm not sure which phyla it goes into. It is possible that the words being used are not being digested well for reasons of lacking vocabulary or familiarity with sentence structure.... In other words, the 'dodge' aspect could be unconsciously intentional or just a computational problem. Certainly 'feigning obliviousness' is a form of dishonesty. From personal experience, I'm embarrassed to report, it does appear to be genuine obliviousness in the moment, and is claimed sincerely and honestly. In retrospect, with focused introspection, it is seen that all the experience and memory was there to be drawn on to suggest that there was no actual obliviousness. In other words, I think it can be a temporary condition that is a perfect storm of the fight/flight reflex combined with some sort of judicious amnesia which wipes out the momentary use of amnesia itself as a defense mechanism. notsureifi'mmakingmyselfclear Keen observations and insights ... and self-honesty! |
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Post by laughter on Apr 25, 2014 15:07:28 GMT -5
(** facepalm **) What's the face palm about? I thought you and Reefs value precision. For facilitating discussion instead of mental stillness at a meditation class! |
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Post by laughter on Apr 25, 2014 15:08:54 GMT -5
whelp, when ya's ready fer the wreckin' crew, you know where to find'em ..  Tzu was right! You guys are in a gang! ST.org Wreckin' Crew 4 Lyfe! |
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Post by topology on Apr 25, 2014 15:18:10 GMT -5
It's varied a lot over the years. Lately, it's morphed into short meditations throughout the day - not a formal sit. It might just be a little breath awareness if I'm feeling off-kilter, or more often it's just sitting quietly with a thought. Not thinking, per se, but sitting quietly with a bit of an intention. Once a week is the big formal sit. Thats good, better is to increase those informal meditation moments in frequency, until 'best': Everything in every moment is a kind of alert meditation experience, every activity, every moment can be meditatively alert and expanded. Having said that, maintaining a daily formal meditation session is advisable, with the bonus side effect, that if you do an alert Zazen type sit in the early morning every day, it may help with more amenable sleep patterns.
There seem to be two halves to meditation, a relaxation bit that relaxes the barriers of expanded consciousness that we self create and maintain, and an alertness bit that increases clarity...both together seem to serve to expand consciousness AND clarity...in those formal meditation sessions, one tends to move deeper into meditation than in the informal sessions, which is to say that one removes more self induced limitations to consciousness, while reaching higher levels of alert clarity than in those spontaneous informal meditative moments.
Really, the goal should be to have every moment characterized by the expanded consciousness and alert clarity of deep meditation, and the more frequently you 'go deeper', the easier it is to maintain, or carry that over into every aspect of this unfolding moment.
Frequency seems to transmute it from a kind if easy effort to initiate, to a natural state. |
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Post by topology on Apr 25, 2014 15:19:49 GMT -5
What's the face palm about? I thought you and Reefs value precision. For facilitating discussion instead of mental stillness at a meditation class! Bohm Dialogues were an attempt to facilitate people entering into that stillness through dialogue... |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2014 15:34:52 GMT -5
Thats good, better is to increase those informal meditation moments in frequency, until 'best': Everything in every moment is a kind of alert meditation experience, every activity, every moment can be meditatively alert and expanded. Having said that, maintaining a daily formal meditation session is advisable, with the bonus side effect, that if you do an alert Zazen type sit in the early morning every day, it may help with more amenable sleep patterns.
There seem to be two halves to meditation, a relaxation bit that relaxes the barriers of expanded consciousness that we self create and maintain, and an alertness bit that increases clarity...both together seem to serve to expand consciousness AND clarity...in those formal meditation sessions, one tends to move deeper into meditation than in the informal sessions, which is to say that one removes more self induced limitations to consciousness, while reaching higher levels of alert clarity than in those spontaneous informal meditative moments.
Really, the goal should be to have every moment characterized by the expanded consciousness and alert clarity of deep meditation, and the more frequently you 'go deeper', the easier it is to maintain, or carry that over into every aspect of this unfolding moment.
Frequency seems to transmute it from a kind if easy effort to initiate, to a natural state. |
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Post by topology on Apr 25, 2014 16:06:34 GMT -5
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Post by laughter on Apr 25, 2014 16:14:42 GMT -5
For facilitating discussion instead of mental stillness at a meditation class! Bohm Dialogues were an attempt to facilitate people entering into that stillness through dialogue... I'll check'en out.  .. mostly there was jest givin' Quinny a hard time for the sake of it |
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.. mostly there was jest givin' Quinny a hard time for the sake of it