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Post by laughter on Apr 25, 2014 11:31:48 GMT -5
The whole idea that making someone feel more secure or validated is a kind of lie, or disingenuous, seems very 'self centric', and lacking in empathy and compassion. Why is does making folks feel more comfortable, secure, and validated seem disingenuous if not because you are in some way being disingenuous to yourself? And what 'self' are you being disingenuous to? Are you being disingenuous to your own feelings and thoughts, and if so, isn't worrying more about being genuine to your own feelings and thoughts to the point were you don't want to make folks around you feel more secure and validated a pretty severe form of disconnected self centeredness? Maybe I have it all wrong, maybe making folks around you feel more secure, comfortable, and validated is being disingenuous to that other person and not yourself? If so, a feeling is a feeling, I have never been able to tell the difference between a fake feeling and real feeling have you? So if a feeling is a feeling, how is helping someone feel more comfortable, secure, and validated disingenuous to that other one? Seems to me that the whole idea that making someone feel more comfortable, secure, and validated being disingenuous has nothing to do with being disingenuous to another, rather, its really a false perception about being disingenuous to an imagined self, in such a way that is lacking empathy or care for others as much as you care about yourself. Kinda goes back to that axiom I offered a while back: Where you choose to place your attention determines so much of your experience and quality of life. In this case, if your attention is exclusively on your own thoughts and feelings, then making folks feel more comfortable, secure, and validated while they are interacting with you can only seem disingenuous if you yourself are not feeling secure or validated. On the other hand, if your attention is not exclusively centered on your own thoughts and feelings, and instead is focussed on your fellow Being's thoughts and feelings, then making them feel more comfortable, secure, and validated, has nothing whatsoever to do with being genuine or not, rather, its just about simple kindness, empathy, and compassion. Steve fwiw I agree with you about gender differences, and my take is that the practicality of applying techniques based on insight into human nature in everyday life is sometimes just a reality of the life situation. Try not to let the conversation about you get under your skin. |
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Post by enigma on Apr 25, 2014 11:39:21 GMT -5
Why don't you give us the respect you think we need? Why the need to defame everyone instead? How does your basic common sense work out in real life? Have you ever tried being 100% genuine, just being who you are? All very intelligent perceptions...but do you really believe that I have a NEED to defame everyone? Seems like a bit of a dramatic and moralistic view to me  To the last bit...what does 'being genuine' mean to you...what is the difference between genuine and none genuine in your paradigm in the context of your question? What does 100% genuine mean to you in this context... when is any not 100% genuine as it is?When one starts being disingenuous. Where have you been during this conversation?  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2014 11:48:21 GMT -5
The whole idea that making someone feel more secure or validated is a kind of lie, or disingenuous, seems very 'self centric', and lacking in empathy and compassion. Why is does making folks feel more comfortable, secure, and validated seem disingenuous if not because you are in some way being disingenuous to yourself? And what 'self' are you being disingenuous to? Are you being disingenuous to your own feelings and thoughts, and if so, isn't worrying more about being genuine to your own feelings and thoughts to the point were you don't want to make folks around you feel more secure and validated a pretty severe form of disconnected self centeredness? Maybe I have it all wrong, maybe making folks around you feel more secure, comfortable, and validated is being disingenuous to that other person and not yourself? If so, a feeling is a feeling, I have never been able to tell the difference between a fake feeling and real feeling have you? So if a feeling is a feeling, how is helping someone feel more comfortable, secure, and validated disingenuous to that other one? Seems to me that the whole idea that making someone feel more comfortable, secure, and validated being disingenuous has nothing to do with being disingenuous to another, rather, its really a false perception about being disingenuous to an imagined self, in such a way that is lacking empathy or care for others as much as you care about yourself. Kinda goes back to that axiom I offered a while back: Where you choose to place your attention determines so much of your experience and quality of life. In this case, if your attention is exclusively on your own thoughts and feelings, then making folks feel more comfortable, secure, and validated while they are interacting with you can only seem disingenuous if you yourself are not feeling secure or validated. On the other hand, if your attention is not exclusively centered on your own thoughts and feelings, and instead is focussed on your fellow Being's thoughts and feelings, then making them feel more comfortable, secure, and validated, has nothing whatsoever to do with being genuine or not, rather, its just about simple kindness, empathy, and compassion. Steve fwiw I agree with you about gender differences, and my take is that the practicality of applying techniques based on insight into human nature in everyday life is sometimes just a reality of the life situation. Try not to let the conversation about you get under your skin. What skin?  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2014 11:54:53 GMT -5
All very intelligent perceptions...but do you really believe that I have a NEED to defame everyone? Seems like a bit of a dramatic and moralistic view to me To the last bit...what does 'being genuine' mean to you...what is the difference between genuine and none genuine in your paradigm in the context of your question? What does 100% genuine mean to you in this context... when is any not 100% genuine as it is?When one starts being disingenuous. Where have you been during this conversation? I guess I'm asking how you define genuine versus dis-ingenuous...like in practicality, in examples. Seems like a mental construct dividing up this moment into imaginary lines to me. |
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Post by enigma on Apr 25, 2014 11:55:00 GMT -5
All very intelligent perceptions...but do you really believe that I have a NEED to defame everyone? Seems like a bit of a dramatic and moralistic view to me To the last bit...what does 'being genuine' mean to you...what is the difference between genuine and none genuine in your paradigm in the context of your question? What does 100% genuine mean to you in this context...when is any not 100% genuine as it is? Okay, now you are making an effort to give respect. But you are giving it with one hand and take it away immediately with the other. Your approach, which is trying to live a concept/idea/ideal, relies on memory and constant self-reflection. Which means as long as you remember your to-do list, it's probably going to work. But since you have to basically monitor yourself all the time, it's a split mind activity. Apart from that, you also have to do a lot of speculating about what the other actually needs and to what degree he/she needs it and then find a way to give them what you think they need. And if you fail to deliver or if you forgot, then you even might start self-criticism. Quite a complicated matter. Being 100% genuine is the opposite of that. There's no need to monitor or speculate and the self-reflective hyper-minding has fallen away altogether because you're not trying to follow any ideal. Also, when one succeeds in fulfilling the needs of another, what naturally follows is more needs to fulfill. The weight of endless expectations quickly becomes burdensome. |
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Post by quinn on Apr 25, 2014 11:57:37 GMT -5
Hey Farmer & Silver - the hypnotist has been planting stuff to help me sleep and it's working. Five days in a row sleeping until 6AM - WOOT WOOT! Great news Quinn. Is the lung-dart/per day count getting effected yet? Haha! Read this just before I left for meditation group and it kept popping up in my sit. I never heard 'lung dart' before - it's perfect! Darts cut in half, so far. It seems to be moving in a positive direction. Also, some twisted thinking has been uncovered and the effects of that are still moving around. We'll see though - I have a history of deviousness in this particular area. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2014 12:00:02 GMT -5
All very intelligent perceptions...but do you really believe that I have a NEED to defame everyone? Seems like a bit of a dramatic and moralistic view to me To the last bit...what does 'being genuine' mean to you...what is the difference between genuine and none genuine in your paradigm in the context of your question? What does 100% genuine mean to you in this context...when is any not 100% genuine as it is? There's that distinction again between noticing insult and feeling insulted. Recognizing the defamation in what the other writes is a step prior to the moralist outrage at the feeling of having been defamed. Haha, all these moving imaginary lines are starting to confuse me...is it me, or Reef's thats about to take the leap into moralistic outrage? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2014 12:01:01 GMT -5
Okay, now you are making an effort to give respect. But you are giving it with one hand and take it away immediately with the other. Your approach, which is trying to live a concept/idea/ideal, relies on memory and constant self-reflection. Which means as long as you remember your to-do list, it's probably going to work. But since you have to basically monitor yourself all the time, it's a split mind activity. Apart from that, you also have to do a lot of speculating about what the other actually needs and to what degree he/she needs it and then find a way to give them what you think they need. And if you fail to deliver or if you forgot, then you even might start self-criticism. Quite a complicated matter. Being 100% genuine is the opposite of that. There's no need to monitor or speculate and the self-reflective hyper-minding has fallen away altogether because you're not trying to follow any ideal. Also, when one succeeds in fulfilling the needs of another, what naturally follows is more needs to fulfill. The weight of endless expectations quickly becomes burdensome. Who does it become burdensome to? Where does the 'weight' rest? |
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Post by quinn on Apr 25, 2014 12:01:25 GMT -5
Hey Farmer & Silver - the hypnotist has been planting stuff to help me sleep and it's working. Five days in a row sleeping until 6AM - WOOT WOOT! Did I get this right, you are a meditation teacher that suffers from insomnia?  And that seems odder to you than a meditation teacher with emphysema who sucks down lung darts? (I'm a substitute meditation teacher - only when the teacher's not there. And then I don't actually 'teach', I usually turn it into a group discussion.) |
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Post by laughter on Apr 25, 2014 12:12:10 GMT -5
Great news Quinn. Is the lung-dart/per day count getting effected yet? Haha! Read this just before I left for meditation group and it kept popping up in my sit. I never heard 'lung dart' before - it's perfect! Darts cut in half, so far. Excellent, really great news. It seems to be moving in a positive direction. Also, some twisted thinking has been uncovered and the effects of that are still moving around. We'll see though - I have a history of deviousness in this particular area. whelp, when ya's ready fer the wreckin' crew, you know where to find'em .. |
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Post by laughter on Apr 25, 2014 12:13:03 GMT -5
There's that distinction again between noticing insult and feeling insulted. Recognizing the defamation in what the other writes is a step prior to the moralist outrage at the feeling of having been defamed. Haha, all these moving imaginary lines are starting to confuse me...is it me, or Reef's thats about to take the leap into moralistic outrage? It was your suggestion that he'd already done that. |
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Post by laughter on Apr 25, 2014 12:14:58 GMT -5
Did I get this right, you are a meditation teacher that suffers from insomnia? And that seems odder to you than a meditation teacher with emphysema who sucks down lung darts? (I'm a substitute meditation teacher - only when the teacher's not there. And then I don't actually 'teach', I usually turn it into a group discussion.)  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2014 12:16:11 GMT -5
It seems to be moving in a positive direction. Also, some twisted thinking has been uncovered and the effects of that are still moving around. We'll see though - I have a history of deviousness in this particular area. whelp, when ya's ready fer the wreckin' crew, you know where to find'em .. Disturbingly Destructive Deviants Demolishing Deviousness. All in 3D+ |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2014 12:17:18 GMT -5
Haha, all these moving imaginary lines are starting to confuse me...is it me, or Reef's thats about to take the leap into moralistic outrage? It was your suggestion that he'd already done that. :-) sorry, my intellectual capacity to follow these kind of conversations may be slipping. Or maybe I'm just getting old or somethin lol |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2014 12:20:46 GMT -5
Did I get this right, you are a meditation teacher that suffers from insomnia? And that seems odder to you than a meditation teacher with emphysema who sucks down lung darts? (I'm a substitute meditation teacher - only when the teacher's not there. And then I don't actually 'teach', I usually turn it into a group discussion.) Here comes the sub!! You're like the Charles Bukowski of meditation teachers... |
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