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Post by silver on Nov 15, 2013 11:50:50 GMT -5
I'm not sure what you mean here by 'turning towards' discomfort and emotional pain. Do you mean the willingness to look into it and the seeing of the beliefs/needs behind it? In my examples above, there was not so much a turning towards the pain as there was just a strong desire for the pain to end...of course this was coupled with a clear seeing of the thoughts behind the painful emotions. Indeed, there is profound relief on the other side, but even prior to that loss, there was a desire to be rid of those needs and beliefs. The idea that they 'could' fall away was very much 'a carrot' and one that beckoned me forward to the actuality of the loss. Yes. Carrots are kinda straight and pointy. Life preservers are round with a hole in the middle. Logs are straight and pointy too, but I wouldn't turn it down if I were in need of something to keep me afloat... Doors are rectangular, yet it saved whatsername in Titanic. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2013 11:52:47 GMT -5
I think it can go both ways. Is it really so painful or uncomfy to let go of a previously held to belief if that belief itself was/is the anchor to pain? The majority of my own 'letting go' happened on the heels of emotional pain. I'd been clinging to beliefs about what I needed in order for Peace to prevail. When I saw through those beliefs and they fell away, the Peace I sought, came rushing in. There was no loss of comfort in the seeing through of those beliefs that had been holding me hostage, but rather, quite the opposite. The discomfort came from holding to those beliefs/needs that had been keeping me bound...not in their falling away. At the most intense point of emotional pain, the idea that perhaps those needs and beliefs responsible for the pain could somehow fall away, was enticing beyond anything else I could have imagined. Food that isn't so tasty when the cupboards are full starts to look much tastier when one is starving. While I'd agree, the promise of freedom from attachment to identity and storyline looks better, tastier, from a position of deep suffering, we need not be in 'deep' suffering for that sense of freedom to appeal. Any amount of emotional pain has one looking in the direction of freedom from it. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2013 12:02:51 GMT -5
I'm not sure what you mean here by 'turning towards' discomfort and emotional pain. Do you mean the willingness to look into it and the seeing of the beliefs/needs behind it? In my examples above, there was not so much a turning towards the pain as there was just a strong desire for the pain to end...of course this was coupled with a clear seeing of the thoughts behind the painful emotions. Indeed, there is profound relief on the other side, but even prior to that loss, there was a desire to be rid of those needs and beliefs. The idea that they 'could' fall away was very much 'a carrot' and one that beckoned me forward to the actuality of the loss. Yes. Carrots are kinda straight and pointy. Life preservers are round with a hole in the middle. I'd say it's all a matter of degree. A little bit of emotional pain, the idea of absence looks enticing....neck deep in suffering, the idea of absence looks like heaven. |
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Post by enigma on Nov 15, 2013 15:16:09 GMT -5
The truth doesn't offer the identity anything but oblivion. That's why so many here struggle against it. Yeah....I guess I just don't see 'so many' struggling with that one, as you do. Can you give some examples of where you see that kind of struggling happening? No, it would be seen as attack. That's not what I mean when I talk about carrots in this context, and I won't associate my meaning with yours. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2013 16:39:13 GMT -5
No, it would be seen as attack. You don't have to use a real life person form this forum to give an example. So then...what do you mean when you speak of a 'carrot'? My meaning in this context is; something that entices one to want to investigate further what's being pointed to...a promise or idea that beckons one forward. And,I'd say that a promise of freedom that hinges upon an absence, to one who is feeling bound, is precisely that. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2013 17:21:36 GMT -5
Ah I see. Thanks. Yeah, I'd say that the present need that's the foundation of the pain becomes readily apparent from that position of 'sitting with' the pain....but then again, that might just be my experience.  For me, the strong desire to be without pain came first, then the surrender to it, and then the clear seeing of the precise thoughts/beliefs/needs that were at its foundation....and then the falling away of those. But I would say it was at the 'strong desire' point where 'an absence' or falling away began to look pretty "carrotty".  I used to do a lot of Insight Meditation. I was always envious of the folks that would report these profound insights that happened as a result of the same exact practice I was doing. I never had any insight it seemed. I did get equanimity up the wazoo though, so that's sumthin. Methinks it's a kind of intelligence, being able to report on experience. When I play sports I also have an abyssimal ability to report on the moment by moment proceedings of a play that happened. I just play. But I see the value in that intelligence/skill. There's much to be learned from it. And my value as an athlete is hindered by not being able to do this. There is value in many ways, and society is poor at utilising the differences in people to fulfil the potential of the whole. Instead, the smaller cell will try to create dominance by portraying themselves as an aspirational image, for the larger society to emulate. Gardners theory of multiple intelligence gives an interesting angle on the various types of intelligence that exist. But the theory is yet to be recognised in parenting publications, schools or childrens/youth work settings. As an athlete the body can be a teacher. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2013 18:45:18 GMT -5
I used to do a lot of Insight Meditation. I was always envious of the folks that would report these profound insights that happened as a result of the same exact practice I was doing. I never had any insight it seemed. I did get equanimity up the wazoo though, so that's sumthin. Methinks it's a kind of intelligence, being able to report on experience. When I play sports I also have an abyssimal ability to report on the moment by moment proceedings of a play that happened. I just play. But I see the value in that intelligence/skill. There's much to be learned from it. And my value as an athlete is hindered by not being able to do this. There is value in many ways, and society is poor at utilising the differences in people to fulfil the potential of the whole. Instead, the smaller cell will try to create dominance by portraying themselves as an aspirational image, for the larger society to emulate. Gardners theory of multiple intelligence gives an interesting angle on the various types of intelligence that exist. But the theory is yet to be recognised in parenting publications, schools or childrens/youth work settings. As an athlete the body can be a teacher. It's a nice an useful theory but there isn't a lot of evidence to support it. That's one of the reasons it hasn't been adopted. Still, it provides some language that is useful for teachers tackling multi-level classrooms and differentiated instruction. Using multiple avenues for presenting materials has always been good advice. |
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Post by lolly on Nov 15, 2013 21:15:11 GMT -5
I experienced stuff like the truth being a painful bitter taste and hard to swallow, what's the saying? 'you can't handle the truth'. I think that's true in some ways and bludgeoning people with Truth is just assault... but like a big bad wolf all dressup as nice little old lady... The little red comes in and illusion grandma is truth transvestite wolf... transvestite k9 biatchs be like, 'all the better'... Eek, scary.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2013 6:39:37 GMT -5
There is value in many ways, and society is poor at utilising the differences in people to fulfil the potential of the whole. Instead, the smaller cell will try to create dominance by portraying themselves as an aspirational image, for the larger society to emulate. Gardners theory of multiple intelligence gives an interesting angle on the various types of intelligence that exist. But the theory is yet to be recognised in parenting publications, schools or childrens/youth work settings. As an athlete the body can be a teacher. It's a nice an useful theory but there isn't a lot of evidence to support it. That's one of the reasons it hasn't been adopted. Still, it provides some language that is useful for teachers tackling multi-level classrooms and differentiated instruction. Using multiple avenues for presenting materials has always been good advice. Yes. When education is run from central government, it would do them no favours to prove the validity of this theory as a model for mainstream education (it could be expensive). So whilst it is widely accepted, the meaningful application of the theory has been neglected. In addition, capitalism places different financial value on different types of intelligence. To accept equality of multiple intelligence, has the potential to undermine that status quo. |
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Post by lolly on Nov 16, 2013 21:03:19 GMT -5
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Post by lolly on Nov 16, 2013 21:04:18 GMT -5
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Post by acewall on Nov 16, 2013 23:10:13 GMT -5
I am so stoked to see/hear this man speaking lolly.
Thank you!
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Post by justlikeyou on Dec 14, 2013 11:13:12 GMT -5
I think a true pointer points back to that which you are. Me too. |
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