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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2017 12:01:29 GMT -5
That would be a person who does that. The separate volitional person (SVP)? Yes that would be the separate volitional personal who is also neither separate or volitional. |
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Post by maxdprophet on May 3, 2017 12:02:51 GMT -5
Well, back to nothing, I would say, as I define ignorance as false knowledge. One is not born in ignorance, but rather innocence. To nothing is probably more accurate. Though in terms of Niz and the knowing I am, it could be unconscious knowing, to conscious knowing, then back to unconscious knowing. What is absent in the return are the fears and attachments and the misunderstanding. How 'bout the zenny 'just knowing'? I'm uncomfortable with 'unconscious knowing.' The unconscious implies there could be something beneath the surface. |
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2017 12:06:41 GMT -5
Mind can pretend that it wants to. That's what most of us are doing. Pretending that we aren't what we are. Playing hide and seek. Looking for consciousness where it can't be found. That's why we can wake up to that place where we are looking from at any time. We really just don't want to. As Satch has said, he is quite happy with his person. So this is all about fixation/attachment it seems. Mind moves along. I Am and all the extras. Most folks are fixated on the glitter and other drama; all that movement. So when you say Mr Mind doesn't want to "go to the place empty of belief" it's because it would be self-annihilating for Mr Mind to do that. Transcend the mind and you will be happy with the person or no person. Either way it doesn't matter. You see, waking up is all inclusive of both non dual and duality. It's all the same. |
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Post by enigma on May 3, 2017 12:23:28 GMT -5
Well, it can, like, write emails and stuff, right?  That would be a person who does that. It was a joke.  Moving along.... |
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Post by enigma on May 3, 2017 12:24:30 GMT -5
There's an udder failure to communicate here, so we'll move along. Looks good from here. Hence the failure. |
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Post by enigma on May 3, 2017 12:29:58 GMT -5
Yes Being knows itself but veils itself from itself and identifies with objects. Falling into the dream. That can be reverse engineered. If you believe the thought that you can be veiled and fall into Maya, that will be your experience. Drop that belief and see what happens. Especially the next time you aren't happy with your person. You can't just believe your reality into existence, you can only believe illusion into apparent existence. The problem is that illusion will always betray you at some point. If being is veiled then that's what it is. You also can't drop a belief. As Tenka would say, beliefs are beliefs because they are believed. |
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Post by enigma on May 3, 2017 12:39:42 GMT -5
Mind can pretend that it wants to. That's what most of us are doing. Pretending that we aren't what we are. Playing hide and seek. Looking for consciousness where it can't be found. That's why we can wake up to that place where we are looking from at any time. We really just don't want to. As Satch has said, he is quite happy with his person. So this is all about fixation/attachment it seems. Mind moves along. I Am and all the extras. Most folks are fixated on the glitter and other drama; all that movement. So when you say Mr Mind doesn't want to "go to the place empty of belief" it's because it would be self-annihilating for Mr Mind to do that. Right, mind is not interested in transcending mind. There's no benefit to mind. |
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2017 12:43:37 GMT -5
So this is all about fixation/attachment it seems. Mind moves along. I Am and all the extras. Most folks are fixated on the glitter and other drama; all that movement. So when you say Mr Mind doesn't want to "go to the place empty of belief" it's because it would be self-annihilating for Mr Mind to do that. Right, mind is not interested in transcending mind. There's no benefit to mind. So who is it that is it disturbed by thoughts and sees a benefit in quiescence? |
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Post by maxdprophet on May 3, 2017 12:51:59 GMT -5
So this is all about fixation/attachment it seems. Mind moves along. I Am and all the extras. Most folks are fixated on the glitter and other drama; all that movement. So when you say Mr Mind doesn't want to "go to the place empty of belief" it's because it would be self-annihilating for Mr Mind to do that. Transcend the mind and you will be happy with the person or no person. Either way it doesn't matter. You see, waking up is all inclusive of both non dual and duality. It's all the same. Transcending the mind is the trick. |
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Post by andrew on May 3, 2017 12:58:18 GMT -5
I would prefer to say a movement of attention. 'Movement of mind' carries an implication that doesn't quite work for me in this context. I think because I do see the sense of being as prior to mind and more fundamentally than phenomena. Attention seems a little more apt to me. Ah, it is because the idea of 'mind' is associated with creativity (and formulation). The sense of being isn't 'created' as such and definitely isn't formulated. Okay. 'Movement of attention' doesn't really give me conniption fits, so no biggie.  well that's good, I don't know what they are, but they don't sound like something I want to have either! |
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Post by andrew on May 3, 2017 13:00:36 GMT -5
Fundamentally existence doesnt have a sense of itself i agree. Consciousness is itself, it doesn’t need to know itself. However if it wants to know something other than itself, it modulates itself into a 'sense' of itself. It is the birth of duality. Yes I agree (I'm assuming Consciousness = Existence there) |
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Post by andrew on May 3, 2017 13:03:53 GMT -5
What that unconscious knowing pre any realisations is something to be frowned upon and post them, it's to be glorified? There's a natural way of using the unconscious, and an unnatural way. The natural way assists in mind/body functioning, and the unnatural way disrupts it. So while it sounds ironic to become conscious, and then go unconscious again, we're actually just talking about cleaning up the process. yes, nice. |
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Post by andrew on May 3, 2017 13:07:31 GMT -5
To nothing is probably more accurate. Though in terms of Niz and the knowing I am, it could be unconscious knowing, to conscious knowing, then back to unconscious knowing. What is absent in the return are the fears and attachments and the misunderstanding. How 'bout the zenny 'just knowing'? I'm uncomfortable with 'unconscious knowing.' The unconscious implies there could be something beneath the surface. Sure. Unconscious knowing, non-conceptual knowing, just knowing....makes no difference to me if the understanding works. Fact is that it is really challenging to find appropriate words to talk about this stuff, some words work well in some conversations, and the same words don't work well in other conversations, it's a confusing business, but makes for good conversation I guess. |
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Post by maxdprophet on May 3, 2017 13:10:18 GMT -5
So this is all about fixation/attachment it seems. Mind moves along. I Am and all the extras. Most folks are fixated on the glitter and other drama; all that movement. So when you say Mr Mind doesn't want to "go to the place empty of belief" it's because it would be self-annihilating for Mr Mind to do that. Right, mind is not interested in transcending mind. There's no benefit to mind. Transcending mind, though, can be sought. I have first hand experience with that. ATA-T for example. Mindfulness. Contemplating 'I am Unborn.' Staying with the I Am in hopes that the I Am, too, will be transcended. Meditation mantra with So Ham.... You could object by saying, well 'transcending mind' is not really understood (because it can't be understood). So it's like saying I'm searching for El Dorado (when actually it's NYC). In other words, what is sought is wrapped up in all sorts of imaginary expectations and other illusions. SR must be like such and such. And likewise, while there may be no ultimate benefits for mind, there are indeed expected benefits in what is sought but those benefits are ultimately the fabricated by confusion. Similarly, as source says, it can not be wanted. But yes I do those aforementioned practices because it is wanted. But then y'all can object by saying that this place can not actually be wanted because desire/want are exactly the sort of thing that are transcended. The quest for otherness belies presence, equanimity with what is. So I suppose a takeaway is that any sort of searching, any sort of desiring (for a desireless state), is a good red flag. |
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Post by maxdprophet on May 3, 2017 13:15:37 GMT -5
Right, mind is not interested in transcending mind. There's no benefit to mind. So who is it that is it disturbed by thoughts and sees a benefit in quiescence? It's true, mindfulness is all the rage right now. Can 10x productivity for example. |
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