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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2013 3:42:32 GMT -5
Well, if we follow the idea that when we look at water we don't know it's water or that we can drink it or that we're thirsty, I guess the whole issue will resolve itself in the ending of the physical existence. But of course it will end innocently. We seem to have lots of peeps losing interest in true/false and knowledge. How is it possible to function that-a-way? I don't know.....but thanks to God, it seems to be working out rather well :-) I went for a walk earlier today, and it seemed like I did not exist, that nothing exists, only God....everywhere I looked, there was only God Could be that this is the truth, and this might be why things seem to work out just fine no matter what....but who knows really....I certainly don't. Do you? There is no end to the conclusions that mind can create from unitive experiences.
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Post by enigma on Jun 9, 2013 10:25:08 GMT -5
I'm talking about seeing an idea as not more than an idea. Is that too complicated for you? Nope, that's pretty easy to follow. Is there anything that's not just an idea? Sure. Most ideas have valid, practical applications in the physical world. The idea that there is a pool of water in the distance when you are in the desert and dying of thirst may save your life if you act on that idea. That seems like more than just a firing of neurons. OTOH,the idea that what is really a mirage will quench your thirst could be fatal if you take too long exploring that idea by acting on it. Not all ideas are equally valid.
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Post by enigma on Jun 9, 2013 10:33:17 GMT -5
False knowledge isn't true. Lol, okay, I'll buy that. What knowledge IS true? Knowledge is true/false in the context in which it is used. It's true that you wrote that post. Nothing is ultimately true because it's all essentially imagination and has no absolute foundation, but you use true/false ideas all the time in their appropriate contexts, as you're doing now with your questions.
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Post by justlikeyou on Jun 9, 2013 10:46:32 GMT -5
Nothing is ultimately true... That is a contradiction that proves the opposite.
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Post by enigma on Jun 9, 2013 10:48:39 GMT -5
How the heck do you let go of knowledge? Can you unknow that the sky is blue by choosing to let it go? I didn't say anything about knowing or attaching. I asked how one lets go of knowledge. Right, the ideas have not occurred. That's innocence. Once you bite that apple, you can't unbite it.
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Post by silver on Jun 9, 2013 10:49:55 GMT -5
Greetings.. The attachment to the idea that the infant is somehow less attached or has some guruesque quality is founded in beliefs about which there is only speculation and projected beliefs based on the desires of more mature minds.. for all of the beliefs and projected desires for the infant's detached awareness, it is noteworthy that the infant cannot survive of its own accord.. mind, awareness, and identity evolve and mature as a collective and cooperative effort, notwithstanding sometimes formidable challenges to that process.. Be well.. Haha, it's just an assumption that infants are innocent....I love this place, I'll call it the idea shredder lol Wow, this exchange really makes me sit forward in my seat...the baby did it! They just look innocent. Next thought I had is well, there is no such thing as 'innocence' just as there is no such thing as 'guilt' - its opposite. Fascinating.
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Post by enigma on Jun 9, 2013 10:53:46 GMT -5
Again, Sorry for interrupting this conversation, but when you are done talking with Enigma about our state of delusion, could you help me out with said delusion by answering these questions: yesterday at 7:26pm The Great Blue Hole Of Belize said: Dear Dude/Dudette, You said:Simple reason for that. They don't see clearly. They did the discerning in the past and since it was minding and not seeing, it didn't work out well. So the conclusion is the true/false thingy must be false. Sincerely, The Great Blue Hole Of Belize I think you were talking to Enigma there, so forgive me if I'm being rude by jumping in here... And then I said:I am confused about something though.....What's the difference between "minding" and "seeing"? Is it in some way beneficial to know what the difference is? Also, what knows the difference between "minding" and "seeing"....is it the mind, or the seeing, or something else entirely? And finally, are you ABSOLUTELY sure of your answers....most of the time when I've thought that the answer that I had was the only right one, I was wrong Read more: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/2811/world-innocence?page=5#ixzz2VgmJ4ZXaEnigma, please feel free to jump in here, as surprisingly for two separate human beings, you and Blue seem to share perfectly identical points of view on everybody and everything discussed here....as such, I'll take it that your's and Blue's answers are the same, no need to make an extra post saying: Zackery! Unless you want to ;-) Actually.....never mind on that last bit, it could very helpful to watch both of you guys answer the same question. The 'How do you know what you know' question? Seems unlikely at this point.
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Post by enigma on Jun 9, 2013 10:58:52 GMT -5
Greetings.. The still mind is a return to innocence, an opportunity to see/experience without the distortions of beliefs and knowings.. Be well.. I spose that's a valid point, as long as the mind never moves again. However, you won't be nearly as functional as an infant, who's mind actually IS moving. The moment yours moves, everything you think you know will come flooding back, and you'll start typing about it on spearachuul forums.
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Post by Beingist on Jun 9, 2013 11:04:06 GMT -5
Haha, it's just an assumption that infants are innocent....I love this place, I'll call it the idea shredder lol Wow, this exchange really makes me sit forward in my seat...the baby did it! They just look innocent. Next thought I had is well, there is no such thing as 'innocence' just as there is no such thing as 'guilt' - its opposite. Fascinating. Indeed, I rez with that last bit, Ag. It is through the guilt/innocence paradigm that the idea of innocence arises in the first place. Ultimately, they're both dualistic concepts.
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Post by silence on Jun 9, 2013 11:09:35 GMT -5
Greetings.. The still mind is a return to innocence, an opportunity to see/experience without the distortions of beliefs and knowings.. Be well.. I spose that's a valid point, as long as the mind never moves again. However, you won't be nearly as functional as an infant, who's mind actually IS moving. The moment yours moves, everything you think you know will come flooding back, and you'll start typing about it on spearachuul forums. And the lord sayeth, still your mind and hire personal assistants!
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Post by enigma on Jun 9, 2013 11:22:40 GMT -5
You might be wondering why I'm poking at Blue's and Enigma's belief's, the answer is simple, it's a kinda self centeredness about shedding beliefs that I might not be aware of. You see, I have this kinda irresistible hobby of picking at the lnots of ideas and beliefs that get all tangled up, its like a fun puzzle. and in my estimate that there, there are three people posting here regularly that seem to have absolute certainty, and that's a knot/puzzle that's fun to pick at. Blue Enigma Tzu My interaction with Max recently helped me get rid of a foundational idea, and hopefully by picking at these guys ideas it will jujitsu one again....but if not, maybe my picking at idea knots will undo one of their ideas.... Tzu I don't know that well But as for BlueEnigma, In many many years of posting, and what must be tens of thousands of posts, I don't recall ever seeing Enigma not having the answer, never once saw him say anything approximating "I don't know" Gosh, that's a whole lot of certainty that's there to pick at lol I know that I exist, and I don't seem to have the word lawyering problems that others have in saying oneness is true. Everything else collapses into a little greasy spot and nothing is ultimately true. I've said that a gazillion times so I don't have much patience with questions about 'my beliefs' and how I know all the wonderful stuff I know and how often I say I don't know something. When no idea is ultimately true, all those questions are irrelevant. I do play around with insights and opinions, and usually preface it with 'As I see it' or 'seems to me', which could be a clue that it's merely a perspective. However, if you have an agenda to put me in my place or make me wrong you might not notice that I'm not going around declaring absolute truths, just questioning the truth of the ideas others seem to be holding onto.
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Post by tzujanli on Jun 9, 2013 11:28:41 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. The still mind is a return to innocence, an opportunity to see/experience without the distortions of beliefs and knowings.. Be well.. I spose that's a valid point, as long as the mind never moves again. However, you won't be nearly as functional as an infant, who's mind actually IS moving. The moment yours moves, everything you think you know will come flooding back, and you'll start typing about it on spearachuul forums. You really don't understand this stuff very well, do you.. seriously? that, or you choose to create illusions that support your beliefs.. you and i both know your post is not a valid representation of the effects of a still mind. Be well..
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Post by enigma on Jun 9, 2013 11:29:21 GMT -5
Greetings.. The attachment to the idea that the infant is somehow less attached or has some guruesque quality is founded in beliefs about which there is only speculation and projected beliefs based on the desires of more mature minds.. for all of the beliefs and projected desires for the infant's detached awareness, it is noteworthy that the infant cannot survive of its own accord.. mind, awareness, and identity evolve and mature as a collective and cooperative effort, notwithstanding sometimes formidable challenges to that process.. Be well.. The infant doesn't have some kind of guruesque quality. You're confusing innocence with transcendence. Of course the infant is less attached to ideas, as there's no concept of a separate self and all the nonsense that springs from that and results in human suffering. It's not noteworthy that the infant can't survive on it's own. It's irrelevant.
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Post by tzujanli on Jun 9, 2013 11:31:13 GMT -5
Greetings.. You might be wondering why I'm poking at Blue's and Enigma's belief's, the answer is simple, it's a kinda self centeredness about shedding beliefs that I might not be aware of. You see, I have this kinda irresistible hobby of picking at the lnots of ideas and beliefs that get all tangled up, its like a fun puzzle. and in my estimate that there, there are three people posting here regularly that seem to have absolute certainty, and that's a knot/puzzle that's fun to pick at. Blue Enigma Tzu My interaction with Max recently helped me get rid of a foundational idea, and hopefully by picking at these guys ideas it will jujitsu one again....but if not, maybe my picking at idea knots will undo one of their ideas.... Tzu I don't know that well But as for BlueEnigma, In many many years of posting, and what must be tens of thousands of posts, I don't recall ever seeing Enigma not having the answer, never once saw him say anything approximating "I don't know" Gosh, that's a whole lot of certainty that's there to pick at lol I know that I exist, and I don't seem to have the word lawyering problems that others have in saying oneness is true. Everything else collapses into a little greasy spot and nothing is ultimately true. I've said that a gazillion times so I don't have much patience with questions about 'my beliefs' and how I know all the wonderful stuff I know and how often I say I don't know something. When no idea is ultimately true, all those questions are irrelevant. I do play around with insights and opinions, and usually preface it with 'As I see it' or 'seems to me', which could be a clue that it's merely a perspective. However, if you have an agenda to put me in my place or make me wrong you might not notice that I'm not going around declaring absolute truths, just questioning the truth of the ideas others seem to be holding onto. You claim that "Oneness is truth", and state that with no option for what is actually happening.. Be well..
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Post by enigma on Jun 9, 2013 11:35:49 GMT -5
Greetings.. The still mind is a return to innocence, an opportunity to see/experience without the distortions of beliefs and knowings.. Be well.. Well said Babes are the model of innocence, kinda odd how most people that you ask on the street will think of a Baby when you ask them to think of the model of innocence, but around here it becomes so complicated with speeeerachul mumbo jumbo ideas lol (Contains Psychoanalysis)I haven't heard anybody suggest otherwise. In your attempt to simplify, you seem to find complication where there is none. If you focus on how others need to see how simple it is, you'll find the complication you're looking for.
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