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Post by laughter on May 2, 2013 3:28:57 GMT -5
Dear Dude/Dudette, Both kidding oneself and being open honest and sincere with oneself is engaging with something called 'oneself', i.e. playing identity poker. Sincerely, The Great Blue Hole Of Belize And that's a bad thing, I'm guessin..? Because Niz or Ramana or tolle Or Enigma said so? Identity is a prerequisite to attachment. In the context of your vision of things, it's the difference between dressing in costume to get the job done or losing oneself in the play and forgetting the nature of it. |
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Post by Beingist on May 2, 2013 8:57:13 GMT -5
Good point. Then, I must surmise that you no longer heed such encouragement, yourself, as your initial sentiment is, itself, a conclusion. Dear Dude/Dudette, You want conclusion-free discussions about 'Ramana et alia'? Sincerely, The Great Blue Hole Of Belize Do I want? No. Is that possible? I don't know. Are you suggesting it isn't? |
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2013 9:19:46 GMT -5
Identity is a prerequisite to attachment. Yes, you could say (if there is attachment to identity) that it's the first and the foundation for all others. However.....I engage with 'an' identity regularly but am attached to none....mother, wife, artist, writer, woman, friend, daughter, are all identities that I put on and then easily let go of. My focus is and has been for some time now on this tendency for spiritual teachings to take things to an extreme..and I see it here often...to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Just because attachment to a set and rigidly defined identity causes problems, we need not eschew all engagement with identity. It's only an issue if attachment is present. |
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Post by laughter on May 2, 2013 9:31:03 GMT -5
Identity is a prerequisite to attachment. Yes, you could say (if there is attachment to identity) that it's the first and the foundation for all others. However.....I engage with 'an' identity regularly but am attached to none....mother, wife, artist, writer, woman, friend, daughter, are all identities that I put on and then easily let go of. My focus is and has been for some time now on this tendency for spiritual teachings to take things to an extreme..and I see it here often...to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Just because attachment to a set and rigidly defined identity causes problems, we need not eschew all engagement with identity. It's only an issue if attachment is present. That's one way to look at it. |
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Post by topology on May 2, 2013 9:48:03 GMT -5
Identity is a prerequisite to attachment. Yes, you could say (if there is attachment to identity) that it's the first and the foundation for all others. However.....I engage with 'an' identity regularly but am attached to none....mother, wife, artist, writer, woman, friend, daughter, are all identities that I put on and then easily let go of. My focus is and has been for some time now on this tendency for spiritual teachings to take things to an extreme..and I see it here often...to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Just because attachment to a set and rigidly defined identity causes problems, we need not eschew all engagement with identity. It's only an issue if attachment is present. What is engaging with identity? What would be attaching? Edit: What is focused or having a focus? |
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Post by silver on May 2, 2013 9:56:34 GMT -5
Yes, you could say (if there is attachment to identity) that it's the first and the foundation for all others. However.....I engage with 'an' identity regularly but am attached to none....mother, wife, artist, writer, woman, friend, daughter, are all identities that I put on and then easily let go of. My focus is and has been for some time now on this tendency for spiritual teachings to take things to an extreme..and I see it here often...to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Just because attachment to a set and rigidly defined identity causes problems, we need not eschew all engagement with identity. It's only an issue if attachment is present. That's one way to look at it. Hi Laughter. Are you suggesting another that you'd like to share? |
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2013 10:09:21 GMT -5
Yes, you could say (if there is attachment to identity) that it's the first and the foundation for all others. However.....I engage with 'an' identity regularly but am attached to none....mother, wife, artist, writer, woman, friend, daughter, are all identities that I put on and then easily let go of. My focus is and has been for some time now on this tendency for spiritual teachings to take things to an extreme..and I see it here often...to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Just because attachment to a set and rigidly defined identity causes problems, we need not eschew all engagement with identity. It's only an issue if attachment is present. What is engaging with identity? What would be attaching? Edit: What is focused or having a focus? This morning I engaged with an identity as an artist, as I sat down to write up an artists bio to describe my particular painting style and where I find inspiration to paint in the way I do, etc. I wrote from the perspective of 'artist' and engaged that aspect of self that is driven to create. I then broke away from that activity (& dropped the artist hat to don the one of mom) as my son was leaving the house to remind him about finishing up his homework after school before he hangs with his friends....I pondered the fact that I was reminding him once again when I said I'd leave it up to him and noted how I was veering slightly away from my highest ideals surrounding parenting. Attaching would be if I believed the totality of who and what I am, to be "a woman who is an artist, mother,...etc" to the degree that I was no longer free to BE whatever I felt moved to be in any given moment. When we're attached to an identity or role, we often cannot see past it...cannot imagine 'being' anything but 'that.' When we engage with identity(ies) we put them on and take them off easily. The identity does not in any way hem us in, but is rather just one expression amongst unlimited expressions. What's focused or having a focus? I've let go of the need to pin that one down.  |
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Post by topology on May 2, 2013 10:13:34 GMT -5
What is engaging with identity? What would be attaching? Edit: What is focused or having a focus? This morning I engaged with an identity as an artist, as I sat down to write up an artists bio to describe my particular painting style and where I find inspiration to paint in the way I do, etc. I wrote from the perspective of 'artist' and engaged that aspect of self that is driven to create. I then broke away from that activity (& dropped the artist hat to don the one of mom) as my son was leaving the house to remind him about finishing up his homework after school before he hangs with his friends....I pondered the fact that I was reminding him once again when I said I'd leave it up to him and noted how I was veering slightly away from my highest ideals surrounding parenting. Attaching would be if I believed the totality of who and what I am, to be "a woman who is an artist, mother,...etc" to the degree that I was no longer free to BE whatever I felt moved to be in any given moment. When we're attached to an identity or role, we often cannot see past it...cannot imagine 'being' anything but 'that.' When we engage with identity(ies) we put them on and take them off easily. The identity does not in any way hem us in, but is rather just one expression amongst unlimited expressions. What's focused or having a focus? I've let go of the need to pin that one down. You're still looking "outwards", in front of the "I". I'm asking what the "I" is that is "engaging" to get your attention to be "behind" the "I". |
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2013 10:16:02 GMT -5
You mean you can't identity with the observer of the identity poker game without knowing what it is? Dear Dude/Dudette, Rephrase, please. Sincerely, The Great Blue Hole Of Belize For clarity, would you restate the concept of 'Identity Poker' so that I can rephrase with specificity? |
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2013 10:19:36 GMT -5
This morning I engaged with an identity as an artist, as I sat down to write up an artists bio to describe my particular painting style and where I find inspiration to paint in the way I do, etc. I wrote from the perspective of 'artist' and engaged that aspect of self that is driven to create. I then broke away from that activity (& dropped the artist hat to don the one of mom) as my son was leaving the house to remind him about finishing up his homework after school before he hangs with his friends....I pondered the fact that I was reminding him once again when I said I'd leave it up to him and noted how I was veering slightly away from my highest ideals surrounding parenting. Attaching would be if I believed the totality of who and what I am, to be "a woman who is an artist, mother,...etc" to the degree that I was no longer free to BE whatever I felt moved to be in any given moment. When we're attached to an identity or role, we often cannot see past it...cannot imagine 'being' anything but 'that.' When we engage with identity(ies) we put them on and take them off easily. The identity does not in any way hem us in, but is rather just one expression amongst unlimited expressions. What's focused or having a focus? I've let go of the need to pin that one down. You're still looking "outwards", in front of the "I". I'm asking what the "I" is that is "engaging" to get your attention to be "behind" the "I". Hmmm...not sure I can answer this Top. What is the "I" that is engaging to get my attention? It's just not experienced in that way. There really is no sense of being either in front of an "I" or behind one. There is mostly these days, just experience happening....sometimes there's acknowledgement of a 'me' there, but more often there's no self referencing going on. Just a sense (if I stop to note) of flowing with whatever's arising moment to moment. |
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Post by topology on May 2, 2013 10:27:44 GMT -5
You're still looking "outwards", in front of the "I". I'm asking what the "I" is that is "engaging" to get your attention to be "behind" the "I". Hmmm...not sure I can answer this Top. What is the "I" that is engaging to get my attention? It's just not experienced in that way. There really is no sense of being either in front of an "I" or behind one. There is mostly these days, just experience happening....sometimes there's acknowledgement of a 'me' there, but more often there's no self referencing going on. Just a sense (if I stop to note) of flowing with whatever's arising moment to moment. When you slip into the mother role, is there thought and awareness of "I am being a mother" in the experience, or is there a perception of "my son" or "my daughter" on the body standing before you, or is it that there is effortless "mothering" happening? |
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2013 10:43:18 GMT -5
Hmmm...not sure I can answer this Top. What is the "I" that is engaging to get my attention? It's just not experienced in that way. There really is no sense of being either in front of an "I" or behind one. There is mostly these days, just experience happening....sometimes there's acknowledgement of a 'me' there, but more often there's no self referencing going on. Just a sense (if I stop to note) of flowing with whatever's arising moment to moment. When you slip into the mother role, is there thought and awareness of "I am being a mother" in the experience, or is there a perception of "my son" or "my daughter" on the body standing before you, or is it that there is effortless "mothering" happening? There is both...IN the case of stopping to ponder how my current mode of parenting aligns with my highest ideals of being a parent this morning, there was the thought, "I am a mother." But all of that was also pretty effortless. See, I think this is another example of where something that is very useful and helpful initially, in terms of waking up, can get taken too far. Indeed, The whole line of inquiry into 'who and what' IS, can initially be very illuminating, but there's a point where those questions really do become irrelevant. In my experience, If life is flowing in a manner that is harmonious, easy and peaceful, those question really no longer do have any relevance. There is just 'this' and it includes all sorts of stuff, none of which is a problem. |
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Post by Beingist on May 2, 2013 10:44:30 GMT -5
Identity is a prerequisite to attachment. Yes, you could say (if there is attachment to identity) that it's the first and the foundation for all others. However.....I engage with 'an' identity regularly but am attached to none....mother, wife, artist, writer, woman, friend, daughter, are all identities that I put on and then easily let go of. My focus is and has been for some time now on this tendency for spiritual teachings to take things to an extreme..and I see it here often...to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Just because attachment to a set and rigidly defined identity causes problems, we need not eschew all engagement with identity. It's only an issue if attachment is present. But isn't 'I am a mother, wife, artist, etc.' still an attachment to a self-image, however fluid, however changing, or however ... intense? I can understand that we still are going to do whatever it is to be done, which can then bring about the appearance that we're playing the role of the mother, wife, artist, etc., but do you consciously consider what those roles entail, or do you just ... do it? The difference is attachment to self-image. |
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Post by silver on May 2, 2013 10:48:59 GMT -5
When you slip into the mother role, is there thought and awareness of "I am being a mother" in the experience, or is there a perception of "my son" or "my daughter" on the body standing before you, or is it that there is effortless "mothering" happening? There is both...IN the case of stopping to ponder how my current mode of parenting aligns with my highest ideals of being a parent this morning, there was the thought, "I am a mother." But all of that was also pretty effortless. See, I think this is another example of where something that is very useful and helpful initially, in terms of waking up, can get taken too far. Indeed, The whole line of inquiry into 'who and what' IS, can initially be very illuminating, but there's a point where those questions really do become irrelevant. In my experience, If life is flowing in a manner that is harmonious, easy and peaceful, those question really no longer do have any relevance. There is just 'this' and it includes all sorts of stuff, none of which is a problem. Hey fig, don't you think these fellas should get out more often? I gotta tell ya, I was melting down from reading too much of this stuff. A healthy diet should have variety. I literally felt sick last night because of all this craziness.  |
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2013 10:51:48 GMT -5
But isn't 'I am a mother, wife, artist, etc.' still an attachment to a self-image, however fluid, however changing, or however ... intense?[/quote] As I understand it, attachment to an identity would mean that I am somehow 'bound' by it....that It defines my way of being. & If I'm loving playing the role of mom or artist or whatever, where are the binds or limitations? If they are there, there is no problem with them, so...where's the problem?  If no need is present, there is no attachment. If I am attached to a certain self image, then there is a need present there to be seen by others and to see self, in a particular light. If that need is not there, no attachment. Sometimes I consciously consider the role, sometimes I'm just 'in it.' This morning as I wrote my artists bio, I was consciously putting on the artists hat. |
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