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Post by enigma on Mar 10, 2013 20:21:09 GMT -5
... keep the whole context in mind ... it was directly after an abrupt public warning from Peter that carried with it no indication that this warning was solicited by anyone but Peter ... I imagine that the reports were more a way to facilitate some discussion between E and the mod rather than any serious attempt to get Arisha banned or whatever. Even so, the thought to report MUST have arisen with a sense that forum rules have been contravened, and that there should be some action taken as a response. Some sense of 'injustice' or 'inappropriateness'. Why else report? Its not the first time E has reported posts either. I do remember a sense that there needs to be some clarity as to what 'bickering' means, if that helps, but I'm not going to say that was the reason. It was just a thought. In your case, I speculate that the apparent lack of self judgment about it confounds you. |
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Post by Reefs on Mar 10, 2013 20:23:00 GMT -5
This acceptance cannot be complete as long as there is the belief that folks are able to make their own free will choices and are therefore responsible for those choices, and so it's necessary to realize that nonvolition is the case. This leads to understanding and compassion. If love depends upon 'no one choosing or being responsible' then it is a love based upon condition. It's possible to see and experience responsibility AND love self and others without condition. A belief that these two are incompatible, results in bizarre circumstances where folks who are supposedly 'conscious and aware' are completely unable (or unwilling ) to share motivations for their actions....(actions such as reporting numerous posts to a moderator on a forum). Really interesting that you're saying this E, cause I just spend a bit of time reading through the thread where you cannot say why it was that you reported a bunch of posts. I see that as a stellar example of 'going unconscious' and 'self deception.' It seems to me that there is a lack of consciousness at the root of that 'mystery'. You have created a disconnect between that aspect of experience where 'you' were impacted by a series of posts, to the degree that you felt compelled to report them, and your awareness about that. It's not enough to simply deny or dismiss personal judgments and feelings and resultant motivations, that still are very much in existence. If we are acting in ways that demonstrate negative judgment, it's important to be able to SEE those judgments and to acknowledge 'what in the blazes is actually going on'.....otherwise, we're simply pandering to a big 'ol blind spot. Self love that requires such a blind spot, is very much conditional love. You have a lot of gall coming back here after you've beaten up so badly last time. And now you're back already busy preparing the next stake for Enigma. Do you really think anyone here is still believing you after you've been exposed over and over again? Your delusion are not serving you. Your 'stellar examples' are worthless. You are the brightest star of delusion here. No one is going to believe you anymore. Give it up. Stop preparing the stake for Enigma. That's low behavior. |
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Post by Reefs on Mar 10, 2013 20:23:52 GMT -5
Hey, glad to hear the weight has been lifted, and good to see you back. nasty |
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Post by Reefs on Mar 10, 2013 20:24:38 GMT -5
I like ACIM. I never followed the course step by step, but have got a lot of time for the wisdom. Occasionally I open a page 'at random', which is what I just did, and this is the message...I think it is relevant to the O.P Title: Choose Once Again. (and the bit that leapt out) ''Choose once again if you would take your place among the saviours of the world, or would remain in hell, and hold your brothers there.'' Sure, linear space time lightworkers like you love that. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2013 20:24:52 GMT -5
I know I know ... I put up something about "walks like a duck..." etc... but I looked at that idea when it came to mind and to be perfectly honest, I can't be certain of what he was thinking ... he might have just having some sarcastic fun saying to Pete: "oh yeah! ... see! see! ... wow ... great job pal!". It's all a safari man.  ... and I need the bullets for my own giraffes! Do you find it all interesting that all of us can come up with a myriad of possible reasons, and E, the dude who made the 8 reports cannot offer up one? yes, he might have just been having fun....or he might have been really pissed (off)......or he might have been trying to make a point that Peter was being unfair.....or he might have been curious to see how Peter would respond....... All of those reasons, ANY reason, would be valid. But do you find it at all odd that E CANNOT connect with a sense of what motivated the reports? Can you imagine yourself ever reporting 8 posts and honestly having no idea why you did it? I can, but it would mean that somehow, I'd gone unconscious while those behaviors were occurring. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2013 20:26:36 GMT -5
If love depends upon 'no one choosing or being responsible' then it is a love based upon condition. It's possible to see and experience responsibility AND love self and others without condition. A belief that these two are incompatible, results in bizarre circumstances where folks who are supposedly 'conscious and aware' are completely unable (or unwilling ) to share motivations for their actions....(actions such as reporting numerous posts to a moderator on a forum). Really interesting that you're saying this E, cause I just spend a bit of time reading through the thread where you cannot say why it was that you reported a bunch of posts. I see that as a stellar example of 'going unconscious' and 'self deception.' It seems to me that there is a lack of consciousness at the root of that 'mystery'. You have created a disconnect between that aspect of experience where 'you' were impacted by a series of posts, to the degree that you felt compelled to report them, and your awareness about that. It's not enough to simply deny or dismiss personal judgments and feelings and resultant motivations, that still are very much in existence. If we are acting in ways that demonstrate negative judgment, it's important to be able to SEE those judgments and to acknowledge 'what in the blazes is actually going on'.....otherwise, we're simply pandering to a big 'ol blind spot. Self love that requires such a blind spot, is very much conditional love. You have a lot of gall coming back here after you've beaten up so badly last time. And now you're back already busy preparing the next stake for Enigma. Do you really think anyone here is still believing you after you've been exposed over and over again? Your delusion are not serving you. Your 'stellar examples' are worthless. You are the brightest star of delusion here. No one is going to believe you anymore. Give it up. Stop preparing the stake for Enigma. That's low behavior.  ....... Someone got outta bed on the wrong side this morning.  |
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Post by Reefs on Mar 10, 2013 20:26:43 GMT -5
Sure, there is a point where story-telling begins, but to simply look and see that certain emotions and judgments are arising and that these are spurring an urge to act in a certain way is not story telling. It is simple seeing/noticing and acknowledgement of what's going on. You've disconnected prior to this seeing, telling us that to report what is seen, would be to create a story. Not so. The story telling would begin when you started trying to explain the validity of your emotions and judgments and urge to act, but there is no story telling in the acknowledgement of what actually happened (in mind...what thoughts arose, etc.) when you read those posts and then had an urge to report them. The fact that you cannot see those thought/machinations of mind, or refuse to engage with them AT ALL, indicates where you go unconscious. If you had been aware of the thoughts arising as you read ARisha's posts and then responded by reporting, you may not have actually gone through with reporting them as you would have seen at that point, that mind was churning out a story of unfairness, or disparity, or something that was not 'okay.' This is why it's important to be aware at this level about what mind is doing....what thoughts are arising....what subsequent emotions/feelings are arising. Sure and that's a very expanded and dispassionate perspective. But, It is also possible to dispassionately observe from an expanded position, the feelings, judgments and motivations that arose/arise from a more personal position. In fact, the mere act of observation requires that we stand back and expand our perspective. You're trying to make a quantum leap from having egoic, needy thoughts to then, claiming, 'stuff just happens.' Before we go there, The egoic needy thoughts first require addressing. If we are to transcend behaviors where we lash out unconsciously, and in the process create more suffering, it's of the utmost importance to first be able to SEE the thought processes that led to the action. To simply say; IN the big scheme of things, this 'just happened' is to turn a blind eye to unconsciousness. This is a big 'If.' The problem is, that if we believe we have emptied ourselves of purpose before we actually have, we get to go about behaving in ways that are chock full of egoic need, all the while remaining oblivious to that. this is what happens when one Comes to a point of 'some' clarity, but believes he is fully 'done' and from that position of being relatively blind, but believing his is absolutely clear, contributing to the very suffering we believe we are helping to alleviate. What you describe here though is a place of profound acceptance....where we are no longer pushing against anything....thus, actual 'way of being' reflects this. You've put the cart before the horse E. You have not yet transcended egoic need. It's only from a place of complete acceptance that we really experience the 'flow' of 'stuff just happening.' If you had actually been experiencing in such a way, the urge to report posts would not have arisen. The types of thoughts that arise have everything to do with 'how' we are experiencing. Being in the 'flow' does not lead to thoughts that say; 'this is wrong......this must be remedied.....this is unfair.' And there is nothing wrong with feeling a sense of unfairness and thus, reporting a post, but it IS important to be able to see what mind was doing when that all occurred. LOL. The unconscious one calls others unconscious. Will your delusion ever end? You are hopeless. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2013 20:28:45 GMT -5
Even so, the thought to report MUST have arisen with a sense that forum rules have been contravened, and that there should be some action taken as a response. Some sense of 'injustice' or 'inappropriateness'. Why else report? Its not the first time E has reported posts either. I do remember a sense that there needs to be some clarity as to what 'bickering' means, if that helps, but I'm not going to say that was the reason. It was just a thought. In your case, I speculate that the apparent lack of self judgment about it confounds you. There need not be ANY self judgment in awareness about the arising of certain thoughts and feelings. |
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Post by enigma on Mar 10, 2013 20:30:40 GMT -5
There was the thought to report the posts, and that thought was followed by the reporting of the posts. Back up a few paces cowboy. The thought to report posts did not occur in a vacuum. If you really can't see this, then This is precisely where your blind spot exists. Prior to the thought about reporting posts, there was a 'feeling' which arose in conjunction with a thought about the post(s) of Arisha's that you read. So, you really cannot connect at all with a sense of "why" you wanted to report all those posts?  If so E, this explains so much. If your ability to 'see' does not extend to the thoughts/feelings behind behaviors, then clearly, you are completely unaware in terms of how and why you do what you do. This disconnect is what happens when folks who are still very much experiencing egoic need, become convinced that they have transcended the personal; A refusal to acknowledge thoughts, feelings and behaviors that are very much still based upon attachment to personal identity and storyline. The interesting thing is, none of these things are problems in & of themselves, so long as we can see them. But if we are blind to them, we are capable of behaving in ways that hurt others without even being the merest bit suspicious of the fact that we might be doing so. No, you're right. All I have to go on is your words and my observations of your actions here. IN the same way though E, you don't "really know" anything about anyone here either. I guess I just cannot imagine not being able to see the thoughts/feelings that arose behind an urge to report a series of (8!!) posts to Peter. And as such, it seems as though you are avoiding admitting that you were affected in some way by those posts. From my vantage point, it'd just be easier to say; "yeah, sure I felt a little angry there as things appeared to be unfair and I wanted to prove my point"....or "I was trying to be funny".....or "I was high/drunk and I accidentally hit the report button." ;D At some point, you might lose interest in policing your thoughts, but this will only happen when you stop hiding from yourself. At that point, you'll stop trying to justify everything you do with some sort of correct reason and purpose. In a way, it comes down to trusting yourself. As long as you're still blowing the whistle on yourself, you're going to keep blowing the whistle on everybody else. |
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Post by tzujanli on Mar 10, 2013 20:31:40 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. Hi Laughter: This is the same piece of 'poetry' that Phil posts from time to time to use as justification for his 'way' of interacting.. he used to post it at SF, too.. but, if 'poetry' is justification we're in a bunch of trouble, there is 'poetry' about stuff that i will not repeat.. I wish there were no battle, the solution is simple, unless.. unless there is fear of the result, whatever that result might be.. i sense that even the conclusion of our 'dance' is fearful for E.. he imagines me as an enemy, a 'cause' for his Martyrdom.. i am not his enemy, he is.. Be well.. i am not his enemy, he is.. Well of course, in general, and in the abstract, there's no retort to be had to what you say here Bob, because in the end, the enemy is only within -- very hard of course to project this realization onto every real-world situation that we can imagine of course, but that doesn't devalue it's currency in my book. And especially in the context of what Phil points up to us -- this is a message board for Christ's sake. Noone is actually going to harm anyone else here ... the joke I was going to make in your reponse to top about it being illegal to send letterbombs notwithstanding of course . Phil does make overt reference to you as the enemy but Phil is Phil and he says alot of things for effect -- most of what he does is simply to comment on what you've written to and about him and add some dramatic flair to it for the sake of comedic provocation. You can't be certain whether or not he does actually consider you an enemy or not. Not by what he writes here. Have you come to the actual conclusion that Phil has made you the enemy? Have you turned yourself into a false-false-enemy by making this assumption? This is a completely open and sincere question for you Bob, really man ... I imagine alot less these days than I used to but still the treasure chest if quite full, so if you were to answer "yes" to either of those I would not think any less of you ... no shame in it man. I'll be the first to admit that it's fun sometimes to do this, to build a straw man to fling rotten apples at, but deep down inside, do you really think that there's a human being hiding out up there in rural Oregon who seriously dislikes you? You know.. it's becoming fun to watch you either imagine or misinterpret what is said, then apply faulty logic to arrive at a post that has no actual relation to the referenced post other than your belief that it does, unless.. you did read the "unless" in the referenced post, right.. the indication of hypothetical.. is this intentional? Be well.. |
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Post by Reefs on Mar 10, 2013 20:33:13 GMT -5
There was the thought to report the posts, and that thought was followed by the reporting of the posts. There was no discontent, no anger, no resistance, no agenda, no contemplation of the repercussions. It's your "evidence" that I'm questioning. The thought to report the posts must have followed some sense of something....the sense that the people you were reporting were contravening forum rules in some way and also the sense that some kind of action from the moderator as a response is appropriate. Why else report them? An 'I don't know' answer to that is an unwillingness to look at the motivation. By the way, I'm not writing off the possibility that posts can be reported from a place of 'love', I have yet to report a post despite occasionally experiencing a movement to sometimes, but I don't rule out the possibility that it is ego that has me NOT reporting them! My feeling is though that you are carrying forum baggage around with you to some extent (carrying the past) and that this is linked to the reporting. Aren't you the paradox guy? Doesn't your deluded philosophy tell you to embrace it? What are you bellyaching here? Also, think about your motivation here, Andy. |
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Post by Reefs on Mar 10, 2013 20:34:44 GMT -5
You don't know what will happen from "a place of profound acceptance....where we are no longer pushing against anything". I think It's fairly safe to say, that the thoughts that arise in conjunction with the reporting of eight posts are not thoughts that arise from a place of acceptance, allowance or flow. Sure, after the fact, you may very well be in full acceptance of the fact that you reported those posts, but the reporting itself is evidence of resistance and pushing against your forum experience in that moment. I find it odd that you are working so hard to avoid admitting that you had some resistance to what was occurring there. Would it be so bad to simply admit that you were not liking the dynamic that was in play there? ...would you say that a child who feels compelled to report the behavior of another kid on a school playground to the principle, is flowing harmoniously in acceptance/allowance with his playground experience? Now we are speculating again? Did you forget your "isn't that what we're really all after?" disaster? Will you ever learn? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2013 20:37:59 GMT -5
Back up a few paces cowboy. The thought to report posts did not occur in a vacuum. If you really can't see this, then This is precisely where your blind spot exists. Prior to the thought about reporting posts, there was a 'feeling' which arose in conjunction with a thought about the post(s) of Arisha's that you read. So, you really cannot connect at all with a sense of "why" you wanted to report all those posts? If so E, this explains so much. If your ability to 'see' does not extend to the thoughts/feelings behind behaviors, then clearly, you are completely unaware in terms of how and why you do what you do. This disconnect is what happens when folks who are still very much experiencing egoic need, become convinced that they have transcended the personal; A refusal to acknowledge thoughts, feelings and behaviors that are very much still based upon attachment to personal identity and storyline. The interesting thing is, none of these things are problems in & of themselves, so long as we can see them. But if we are blind to them, we are capable of behaving in ways that hurt others without even being the merest bit suspicious of the fact that we might be doing so. No, you're right. All I have to go on is your words and my observations of your actions here. IN the same way though E, you don't "really know" anything about anyone here either. I guess I just cannot imagine not being able to see the thoughts/feelings that arose behind an urge to report a series of (8!!) posts to Peter. And as such, it seems as though you are avoiding admitting that you were affected in some way by those posts. From my vantage point, it'd just be easier to say; "yeah, sure I felt a little angry there as things appeared to be unfair and I wanted to prove my point"....or "I was trying to be funny".....or "I was high/drunk and I accidentally hit the report button." ;D At some point, you might lose interest in policing your thoughts, but this will only happen when you stop hiding from yourself. At that point, you'll stop trying to justify everything you do with some sort of correct reason and purpose. In a way, it comes down to trusting yourself. As long as you're still blowing the whistle on yourself, you're going to keep blowing the whistle on everybody else. Being aware of thoughts/feelings does not equal 'policing them.' It is one thing to be aware of the thoughts that arise and quite another to judge them or justify them. You seem to be mixing up your lack of awareness about what thoughts were in existence when you reported those posts with judging them as being wrong or inappropriate. To see them is one thing.....to judge them, another. Do we really need to become unconscious about thoughts and feelings in order to avoid judging ourselves too harshly? |
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Post by Reefs on Mar 10, 2013 20:40:05 GMT -5
You don't know what will happen from "a place of profound acceptance....where we are no longer pushing against anything". I think It's fairly safe to say, that the thoughts that arise in conjunction with the reporting of eight posts are not thoughts that arise from a place of acceptance, allowance or flow. Sure, after the fact, you may very well be in full acceptance of the fact that you reported those posts, but the reporting itself is evidence of resistance and pushing against your forum experience in that moment. I find it odd that you are working so hard to avoid admitting that you had some resistance to what was occurring there. Would it be so bad to simply admit that you were not liking the dynamic that was in play there? ...would you say that a child who feels compelled to report the behavior of another kid on a school playground to the principle, is flowing harmoniously in acceptance/allowance with his playground experience? Yes, your word twisting and bad memory is also very odd. Didn't get Beingist banned because of you? Doesn't matter if you reported his posts or not, you complained about it openly. Your bellyaching got him banned. Why didn't you embrace the valuable input he gave you? |
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Post by Reefs on Mar 10, 2013 20:41:22 GMT -5
There was the thought to report the posts, and that thought was followed by the reporting of the posts. Back up a few paces cowboy. The thought to report posts did not occur in a vacuum. If you really can't see this, then This is precisely where your blind spot exists. Prior to the thought about reporting posts, there was a 'feeling' which arose in conjunction with a thought about the post(s) of Arisha's that you read. So, you really cannot connect at all with a sense of "why" you wanted to report all those posts? If so E, this explains so much. If your ability to 'see' does not extend to the thoughts/feelings behind behaviors, then clearly, you are completely unaware in terms of how and why you do what you do. This disconnect is what happens when folks who are still very much experiencing egoic need, become convinced that they have transcended the personal; A refusal to acknowledge thoughts, feelings and behaviors that are very much still based upon attachment to personal identity and storyline. The interesting thing is, none of these things are problems in & of themselves, so long as we can see them. But if we are blind to them, we are capable of behaving in ways that hurt others without even being the merest bit suspicious of the fact that we might be doing so. No, you're right. All I have to go on is your words and my observations of your actions here. IN the same way though E, you don't "really know" anything about anyone here either. I guess I just cannot imagine not being able to see the thoughts/feelings that arose behind an urge to report a series of (8!!) posts to Peter. And as such, it seems as though you are avoiding admitting that you were affected in some way by those posts. From my vantage point, it'd just be easier to say; "yeah, sure I felt a little angry there as things appeared to be unfair and I wanted to prove my point"....or "I was trying to be funny".....or "I was high/drunk and I accidentally hit the report button." ;D Just one gal's opinion though. |
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... and I need the bullets for my own giraffes!
....... Someone got outta bed on the wrong side this morning. 
