|
|
Post by silver on Mar 24, 2013 23:12:15 GMT -5
Silver, If I can ask you some questions that will require reflection. What are you getting out of your discussion here with Enigma? Why do you continue it? What are you hoping to get out of it? What are you actually getting out of it? I don't mind answering/reflecting, yet I can't help wonder why you want to know. Is it because you're protective of E for whatever reason(s) or what? I think your questions reflect suspicion that I'm 'not serious' about non-duality and related topics. Neti-neti comes to mind: It's NOT because I have nothing better to do, not true at all. I'm very simply put - interested. But you should already know that. Do you ask because you think I'm mean or disrespectful? If that's the case, then I don't know why you might view me as not fitting in because that seems to be the M.O. for some core members here. The notion of what I hope to get out of my exchange with E or every/anyone here - never even crossed my mind to 'get something out of it.' I suppose because I'm simply wanting to 'connect' and I've always enjoyed the various forums like for about 25 years now. What I get out of it is pretty basic - just exchanging ideas, checking out other people's ideas - socializing - like everybody else here. Anything wrong with those answers, Top? |
|
|
|
Post by topology on Mar 25, 2013 13:34:16 GMT -5
Silver, If I can ask you some questions that will require reflection. What are you getting out of your discussion here with Enigma? Why do you continue it? What are you hoping to get out of it? What are you actually getting out of it? I don't mind answering/reflecting, yet I can't help wonder why you want to know. I want to know so I can get a sense of where you are relating from. You're relating from an innate distrust and suspicion of motive. Is it because you're protective of E for whatever reason(s) or what? Enigma/Phil doesn't need my protection. I'm a peace maker by nature, someone who wants to clarify miscomunication and misunderstanding when it is happening. I understand where Phil is coming from. I'd like to help you understand if that is at all possible. The understanding I'm talking about isn't a conceptual or factual understanding. It's an understanding that comes from being in rapport. I think your questions reflect suspicion that I'm 'not serious' about non-duality and related topics. The questions reflect a genuine curiosity. Despite everything that's happened on the board, you're still here, plugging away and interacting with Enigma. Non-duality is not a shift in what you believe about the world, its a shift in the way you relate to the world. My question was designed as a temperature gauge to see how you were relating. Neti-neti comes to mind: It's NOT because I have nothing better to do, not true at all. I'm very simply put - interested. But you should already know that. Do you ask because you think I'm mean or disrespectful? I'm not looking for things to be wrong. If anything I'm hoping to hear that a release in resistance has occurred. Not resistance to Enigma or non-duality. But a general release. Being suspicious of the motive of others is tension/resistance. If that's the case, then I don't know why you might view me as not fitting in because that seems to be the M.O. for some core members here. I don't have any prejudices about who is here or who shouldn't be here. You are hear of your own volition (or compulsion), so this is where you belong. This material and subject matter is a grindstone. Something in you is pushing you against the grindstone wearing away at the resistance. It takes time. But "progress" can be measured in the number of layers shed. The notion of what I hope to get out of my exchange with E or every/anyone here - never even crossed my mind to 'get something out of it.' I suppose because I'm simply wanting to 'connect' and I've always enjoyed the various forums like for about 25 years now. What I get out of it is pretty basic - just exchanging ideas, checking out other people's ideas - socializing - like everybody else here. Anything wrong with those answers, Top? There's no right or wrong. You are wanting to get something out of your interaction, you wrote it in the next sentence. Wanting to connect. Which is in part maybe why your experience on the forum has been so tumultuous. This is a theme in my own life, given I'm breaking up with my wife. I was trying to connect and feel connected through her. Talk about putting pressure on a relationship. Connection is something that can only come from our Selves. Connecting to others only works if we are already connected to Self and we see our Self in others. If we are disconnected and seeking connection through our interaction with others, it becomes a conditional or codependent strain on the relationship. Are you fully connected to your Self? I'm going to make a proposal and I would like to hear your thoughts on it: If you were fully connected to yourSelf, you would not be wary or suspicious of other people's motives in their interaction. If you were fully connected, you would be Whole and at Peace regardless of the state of the external world. What do you think? |
|
|
|
Post by silver on Mar 25, 2013 16:30:04 GMT -5
I don't mind answering/reflecting, yet I can't help wonder why you want to know. I want to know so I can get a sense of where you are relating from. You're relating from an innate distrust and suspicion of motive. Is it because you're protective of E for whatever reason(s) or what? Enigma/Phil doesn't need my protection. I'm a peace maker by nature, someone who wants to clarify miscomunication and misunderstanding when it is happening. I understand where Phil is coming from. I'd like to help you understand if that is at all possible. The understanding I'm talking about isn't a conceptual or factual understanding. It's an understanding that comes from being in rapport. I think your questions reflect suspicion that I'm 'not serious' about non-duality and related topics. The questions reflect a genuine curiosity. Despite everything that's happened on the board, you're still here, plugging away and interacting with Enigma. Non-duality is not a shift in what you believe about the world, its a shift in the way you relate to the world. My question was designed as a temperature gauge to see how you were relating. Neti-neti comes to mind: It's NOT because I have nothing better to do, not true at all. I'm very simply put - interested. But you should already know that. Do you ask because you think I'm mean or disrespectful? I'm not looking for things to be wrong. If anything I'm hoping to hear that a release in resistance has occurred. Not resistance to Enigma or non-duality. But a general release. Being suspicious of the motive of others is tension/resistance. If that's the case, then I don't know why you might view me as not fitting in because that seems to be the M.O. for some core members here. I don't have any prejudices about who is here or who shouldn't be here. You are hear of your own volition (or compulsion), so this is where you belong. This material and subject matter is a grindstone. Something in you is pushing you against the grindstone wearing away at the resistance. It takes time. But "progress" can be measured in the number of layers shed. The notion of what I hope to get out of my exchange with E or every/anyone here - never even crossed my mind to 'get something out of it.' I suppose because I'm simply wanting to 'connect' and I've always enjoyed the various forums like for about 25 years now. What I get out of it is pretty basic - just exchanging ideas, checking out other people's ideas - socializing - like everybody else here. Anything wrong with those answers, Top? There's no right or wrong. You are wanting to get something out of your interaction, you wrote it in the next sentence. Wanting to connect. Which is in part maybe why your experience on the forum has been so tumultuous. This is a theme in my own life, given I'm breaking up with my wife. I was trying to connect and feel connected through her. Talk about putting pressure on a relationship. Connection is something that can only come from our Selves. Connecting to others only works if we are already connected to Self and we see our Self in others. If we are disconnected and seeking connection through our interaction with others, it becomes a conditional or codependent strain on the relationship. Are you fully connected to your Self? I'm going to make a proposal and I would like to hear your thoughts on it: If you were fully connected to yourSelf, you would not be wary or suspicious of other people's motives in their interaction. If you were fully connected, you would be Whole and at Peace regardless of the state of the external world. What do you think? That comment (2nd sentence) reflects that you don't 'read' people's intentions or at least mine well at all. That is not it at all. It may be innate, but it's not distrust /suspicion of motive - it's far more like an overlay of gentle curiosity of one human being wanting to know more about another, but I mean no harm. |
|
|
|
Post by topology on Mar 25, 2013 17:01:54 GMT -5
I want to know so I can get a sense of where you are relating from. You're relating from an innate distrust and suspicion of motive. Enigma/Phil doesn't need my protection. I'm a peace maker by nature, someone who wants to clarify miscomunication and misunderstanding when it is happening. I understand where Phil is coming from. I'd like to help you understand if that is at all possible. The understanding I'm talking about isn't a conceptual or factual understanding. It's an understanding that comes from being in rapport. The questions reflect a genuine curiosity. Despite everything that's happened on the board, you're still here, plugging away and interacting with Enigma. Non-duality is not a shift in what you believe about the world, its a shift in the way you relate to the world. My question was designed as a temperature gauge to see how you were relating. I'm not looking for things to be wrong. If anything I'm hoping to hear that a release in resistance has occurred. Not resistance to Enigma or non-duality. But a general release. Being suspicious of the motive of others is tension/resistance. I don't have any prejudices about who is here or who shouldn't be here. You are hear of your own volition (or compulsion), so this is where you belong. This material and subject matter is a grindstone. Something in you is pushing you against the grindstone wearing away at the resistance. It takes time. But "progress" can be measured in the number of layers shed. There's no right or wrong. You are wanting to get something out of your interaction, you wrote it in the next sentence. Wanting to connect. Which is in part maybe why your experience on the forum has been so tumultuous. This is a theme in my own life, given I'm breaking up with my wife. I was trying to connect and feel connected through her. Talk about putting pressure on a relationship. Connection is something that can only come from our Selves. Connecting to others only works if we are already connected to Self and we see our Self in others. If we are disconnected and seeking connection through our interaction with others, it becomes a conditional or codependent strain on the relationship. Are you fully connected to your Self? I'm going to make a proposal and I would like to hear your thoughts on it: If you were fully connected to yourSelf, you would not be wary or suspicious of other people's motives in their interaction. If you were fully connected, you would be Whole and at Peace regardless of the state of the external world. What do you think? That comment (2nd sentence) reflects that you don't 'read' people's intentions or at least mine well at all. That is not it at all. It may be innate, but it's not distrust /suspicion of motive - it's far more like an overlay of gentle curiosity of one human being wanting to know more about another, but I mean no harm. The questions you asked me in response to my questions to you all indicate that you feel like I have an ulterior motive for asking my initial questions other than an interest in you. Like I need to defend E, or I'm seeing you as mean or disrespectful. You're speculating as to my motive and then trying to head off any response at the pass. Then you ask me if I see anything wrong with those answers, so you're expecting criticism from me. All of that was wrestling with the hypothetical story around why I would be asking the questions that I asked. Remember MG's story about his conversations with his friend? All of his communication problems with his friend came from trying to talk to his mental model of his friend instead of simply answering the questions without looking for explanations of motive, without trying to manage the interaction. It's a wonderful question. Are we engaging each other, or are we engaging the mental model, the stored up image of each other? Reef's mocking is engaging the stored up image. Enigma has much less of a stored up image in his mind, always willing to form a new impression it seems, but will go with the old impression if that is what is coming up. ZD appears to have no mental image of anyone on the forum. That's why people think his posting is so great. When there is no image to wrestle with, it is a breath of fresh air. That is what this thread is about, shedding that accumulated mental image of others. |
|
|
|
Post by silver on Mar 25, 2013 17:19:18 GMT -5
"I want to know so I can get a sense of where you are relating from. You're relating from an innate distrust and suspicion of motive." That comment (2nd sentence) reflects that you don't 'read' people's intentions or at least mine well at all. That is not it at all. It may be innate, but it's not distrust /suspicion of motive - it's far more like an overlay of gentle curiosity of one human being wanting to know more about another, but I mean no harm. The questions you asked me in response to my questions to you all indicate that you feel like I have an ulterior motive for asking my initial questions other than an interest in you. Like I need to defend E, or I'm seeing you as mean or disrespectful. You're speculating as to my motive and then trying to head off any response at the pass. Then you ask me if I see anything wrong with those answers, so you're expecting criticism from me. All of that was wrestling with the hypothetical story around why I would be asking the questions that I asked. Remember MG's story about his conversations with his friend? All of his communication problems with his friend came from trying to talk to his mental model of his friend instead of simply answering the questions without looking for explanations of motive, without trying to manage the interaction. It's a wonderful question. Are we engaging each other, or are we engaging the mental model, the stored up image of each other? Reef's mocking is engaging the stored up image. Enigma has much less of a stored up image in his mind, always willing to form a new impression it seems, but will go with the old impression if that is what is coming up. ZD appears to have no mental image of anyone on the forum. That's why people think his posting is so great. When there is no image to wrestle with, it is a breath of fresh air. That is what this thread is about, shedding that accumulated mental image of others. I think that's fascinating, especially when considering that E responds to questions with questions more often than not, seems to me to prove that you have some pretty sharp biases there - given that you're trying to put the focus on when I appear to do that, but I'm not that way. |
|
|
|
Post by topology on Mar 25, 2013 17:24:47 GMT -5
The questions you asked me in response to my questions to you all indicate that you feel like I have an ulterior motive for asking my initial questions other than an interest in you. Like I need to defend E, or I'm seeing you as mean or disrespectful. You're speculating as to my motive and then trying to head off any response at the pass. Then you ask me if I see anything wrong with those answers, so you're expecting criticism from me. All of that was wrestling with the hypothetical story around why I would be asking the questions that I asked. Remember MG's story about his conversations with his friend? All of his communication problems with his friend came from trying to talk to his mental model of his friend instead of simply answering the questions without looking for explanations of motive, without trying to manage the interaction. It's a wonderful question. Are we engaging each other, or are we engaging the mental model, the stored up image of each other? Reef's mocking is engaging the stored up image. Enigma has much less of a stored up image in his mind, always willing to form a new impression it seems, but will go with the old impression if that is what is coming up. ZD appears to have no mental image of anyone on the forum. That's why people think his posting is so great. When there is no image to wrestle with, it is a breath of fresh air. That is what this thread is about, shedding that accumulated mental image of others. I think that's fascinating, especially when considering that E responds to questions with questions more often than not, seems to me to prove that you have some pretty sharp biases there - given that you're trying to put the focus on when I appear to do that, but I'm not that way. You're still wrestling and seeing my engaging you as criticism. So I will stop now. |
|
|
|
Post by silver on Mar 25, 2013 17:32:59 GMT -5
I think that's fascinating, especially when considering that E responds to questions with questions more often than not, seems to me to prove that you have some pretty sharp biases there - given that you're trying to put the focus on when I appear to do that, but I'm not that way. You're still wrestling and seeing my engaging you as criticism. So I will stop now. You're blind as a bat right now (not the only one, though). What crossed my mind when you posted this last bit is that I think I've had enough of being dissected in the BP thread. I'm not being seen for who I am. |
|
|
|
Post by topology on Mar 25, 2013 18:26:34 GMT -5
You're still wrestling and seeing my engaging you as criticism. So I will stop now. You're blind as a bat right now (not the only one, though). What crossed my mind when you posted this last bit is that I think I've had enough of being dissected in the BP thread. I'm not being seen for who I am. You are Presence. You are the Light of Consciousness. |
|
|
|
Post by silver on Mar 25, 2013 18:30:51 GMT -5
You're blind as a bat right now (not the only one, though). What crossed my mind when you posted this last bit is that I think I've had enough of being dissected in the BP thread. I'm not being seen for who I am. You are Presence. You are the Light of Consciousness. Where's my regal robe? Are you cereal? This feels like playing a kid's make-believe game. (It is kinda fun being queen for a day.) You're still not responding to my out-loud wonderings and queries, though, my royal subject. |
|
|
|
Post by silver on Mar 25, 2013 18:31:34 GMT -5
You're blind as a bat right now (not the only one, though). What crossed my mind when you posted this last bit is that I think I've had enough of being dissected in the BP thread. I'm not being seen for who I am. You are Presence. You are the Light of Consciousness. I know what Reefs and Enigma would say - I'm the Light of Unconsciousness.  |
|
|
|
Post by topology on Mar 25, 2013 18:37:44 GMT -5
You are Presence. You are the Light of Consciousness. I know what Reefs and Enigma would say - I'm the Light of Unconsciousness. They're focused on what you're saying, the words/thoughts coming out of your mouth/mind. I'm wanting to get at what is sitting behind the word-generator. What Tzu would call the still mind. |
|
|
|
Post by silver on Mar 25, 2013 18:40:35 GMT -5
I know what Reefs and Enigma would say - I'm the Light of Unconsciousness. They're focused on what you're saying, the words/thoughts coming out of your mouth/mind. I'm wanting to get at what is sitting behind the word-generator. What Tzu would call the still mind. Okay - but isn't it the same 'Oneness' thingy behind all of us? If we're all Hitler or Napoleon or Princess Di or you or me, isn't it all the same? |
|
|
|
Post by topology on Mar 25, 2013 18:46:44 GMT -5
They're focused on what you're saying, the words/thoughts coming out of your mouth/mind. I'm wanting to get at what is sitting behind the word-generator. What Tzu would call the still mind. Okay - but isn't it the same 'Oneness' thingy behind all of us? If we're all Hitler or Napoleon or Princess Di or you or me, isn't it all the same? If you're asking, then you don't know. You're thinking about it conceptually, or as a belief. When you can see it, you will not have questions about it, you will know. |
|
|
|
Post by silver on Mar 25, 2013 18:55:31 GMT -5
Okay - but isn't it the same 'Oneness' thingy behind all of us? If we're all Hitler or Napoleon or Princess Di or you or me, isn't it all the same? If you're asking, then you don't know. You're thinking about it conceptually, or as a belief. When you can see it, you will not have questions about it, you will know. I've said this before and I think it's worth saying again - that I know there's something to this nonduality/ata stuff, but I'm still ferreting it out for myself. From everything I've been reasonably exposed to - opinions - from this forum, at this point I think that some aspects of it are being carried far beyond what was intended and/or is reasonable. And the source of those 'some aspects' are thoughts in your minds. |
|
|
|
Post by silver on Mar 25, 2013 18:56:36 GMT -5
Okay - but isn't it the same 'Oneness' thingy behind all of us? If we're all Hitler or Napoleon or Princess Di or you or me, isn't it all the same? If you're asking, then you don't know. You're thinking about it conceptually, or as a belief. When you can see it, you will not have questions about it, you will know. Ahhh, but neither of us can 'know'.  |
|
