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Post by enigma on Feb 12, 2013 22:18:18 GMT -5
Her interpretation of what she read was not what she read. To me, what seems illogical is to have a discussion about whether I'm right about what I meant or if she is right about what I meant. I'm more than willing to clear up any misinterpretations,
Because you keep stating this... I just finished a lengthy post expressing how you have your intepretation, and silver has hers,
to hilight that each person has a real unique viewing position in reality that translates into a real description of what they see.
And you respond with, 'nope, her view is wrong.'
I don't see any openness to discuss the differences.
All i see is a wall with "Her interpretation of what she read was not what she read." deeply etched into it.
Of which you have every right to have and hold. E: The sky is blue. S: Why would you say the sky is green? E: I didn't say the sky is green. S: I know what I read. E: You don't know what you read. Your interpretation of what you read is not what you read. What you read is "The sky is blue." The reason I don't include emotion in most of my posts is because there is no emotion to be expressed. You as*ume I purposely omit my emotional reaction for some mysterious non-dual purpose. Style has a tendency to be interpreted as emotion, and I so my style is not often warm and cozy or humorous when saying something someone may not want to hear. Neither is it belligerent, arrogant, mocking, insulting or condemning. How the reader fills in the style tells me a lot about the state of mind of the reader. So what you require is periodic admissions that I could be wrong, like once every 48 hours or sumthin? Would that satisfy your criteria? Look dude, nobody can ever be absolutely certain they're right, though it is possible to know that in the largest context we are all absolutely wrong. To my knowledge, I've never claimed rightness, never declared I know anything worth listening to, never offered any credentials or ever placed myself in a position of authority. So what are all these peeps talking about who call me unreproachable and unwilling to admit I could be wrong? Maybe it's because I don't riddle my posts with IMHO disclaimers or change my mind as often as I change my socks or morph and change my stories with the seasons. Maybe it's because I walked off that right/wrong humble/arrogant battlefield a long time ago. Everybody is doing the best they can and sees precisely as clearly as they do. Why not get over it already? There's nowhere for me to move to. There's no place for me to go unless I want to go back to that battlefield. I don't. Watching you all swing your swords and try to make each other stylishly wrong is quite enough for me. |
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Post by enigma on Feb 12, 2013 22:33:20 GMT -5
Greetings.. And, when others bring their own version of this practice, there is conflict.. neither willing to engage the other openly and honestly, without resort to judgement and manipulation.. Be well.. So you've found one guy on the internet you seemingly can't openly communicate with effectively. Why not just move on? Apparently, I'm draining energy from cyberspace at an unprecidented rate, and even Bill Gates is feeling the tug of the gravitational well from my black hole.  |
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Post by enigma on Feb 12, 2013 22:49:12 GMT -5
The problem you quoted me saying applies to you as well. Top has a very gentle and open approach generally, and yet even you have demonized him and made him wrong for your misperception that he is making others wrong.
Looks to me like a bit of emotional over dramatization there.
Pray tell what do you call your posts to or of silver when you accuse her of blackmailing?
I would like to see you classification system in comparison to the posts i write to topology.
How do you rate your posts of and to silver when you accuse her of many things.
And you are allowed to have any opinion you like.
My experiences reveal a difference of approach creates a different response.Mine too. I was talking about clarity, not friendliness. [/font] The post of Top's to Silver you quoted earlier was about a malfunction of the bolt in the machine, and yet Silver blew a gasket in response. You only imagine you've had success with certain approaches. Your 'success' is due to the dynamics of the receiver of your message.I am constantly amused that you are so sure of what i have experienced in interactions, of which you know nothing about...unless you have been observing me for the past 20 years, of which i seriously doubt you have.
If you want to think my successes are due to the dynamics of the receiver of your message, by all means enigma, think whatever you want, it's a free concert..
I know it's due to the combination of me and the other. And by 'know', i mean i was there, i experienced it, i see the difference when i interact differently.
If that has not been your experiences, then that has not been your experiences.
But when you try to tell me what i experienced is not what i experienced, when i was there and you weren't, i simply joyfully facepalm~.
[/quote] I'm not talking about what experience you had, (I have to take your word for that) I'm talking about why you had it. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2013 23:40:33 GMT -5
Enigma agreed that how I understood his points were consistent with how he intended them.
What am I speculating about? I don't know what you mean, then by where it came from.
Natch, it's old news by now and I don't think that it's going to help anybody to keep on about it when it's understood by those interested parties what the dynamic is here.
You have certain agendas or talking points, certain messages that you want to tell Enigma. These are sitting in the background waiting for triggers and contexts to activate their expression. When you read James' post, it sounded like one of his talking points was similar or in support of one of your talking points. You then proceeded as if James had the same talking point as you.
This is all Enigma is trying to point at:
1) You have talking points that you hold onto and throw at him.
2) You will mis-hear someone else's talking point if it is "close enough" to your own talking point. This is a mistake in perception and a misrepresentation of another person.
These are your conclusions about silver?
If you answer yes to both, then i repeat, speculation...unless you have verifiable proof. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2013 23:57:53 GMT -5
Heey, speaking of love.
I so adore tartare sauce. It's my fav sauce of all the sauces i have tried.
When i'm driving to the shops, i think of tartare sause and if fills me with immense joy to know i am driving to town to get me some.
Sometimes, when i am so joyful while driving to town to get me some, if i see cows in the fields, i call out to them,
"Hey cows, i'm going to get me some tartare sauce, how awesome is that! Tartare sauce,...oh yeah!!!'
Sometimes, if they are not engrossed in whatever cows can be engrossed in, they look up at me and i imagine they are saying to each other,
"Hey there's that happy nut who's always chatting to us about stuff as he drives by,
i bet the aliens did a number on him, 'cus he sure behaves differently to all the other humans round these parts."
Anyways...tartare sauce...
I bet Jesus, when he was at that banquet and he turned the jugs of water into the best wine the guests have ever tasted.
I bet Jesus could make the best tartare sauce ever!
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Post by tzujanli on Feb 13, 2013 0:09:38 GMT -5
Greetings.. And, when others bring their own version of this practice, there is conflict.. neither willing to engage the other openly and honestly, without resort to judgement and manipulation.. Be well.. So you've found one guy on the internet you seemingly can't openly communicate with effectively. Why not just move on? It's not just me, Silence.. there are quite a few that find it difficult to have discussions on this forum without the 'non-dual posse' derailing the process of open and honest discussion with their agendas and judgments and mockery.. So, here's another question: the "one guy", and the 'posse', 'moved on', built a Realizing Happiness sanctuary for their believers, so.. have you asked the "one guy" why he doesn't find 'Happiness' where he 'moved on' to? Be well.. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2013 0:14:50 GMT -5
I do not dispute you see your posts are like this.
I theorise you see you are not including style or emotion in your posts because of something to do with your nondualism beliefs.
And when others express they see you have an abrasive style or you include emotion in your posts,
you literally cannot see what they see because you see reality through your nondualsim belief filter. [/size][/quote] You as*ume I purposely omit my emotional reaction for some mysterious non-dual purpose.[/quote] Although i am only up to page 40 something in this thread, i saw your latest response.
Because of the hilighted response, i have decided to end all communication with you
because i did not say 'i theorise you purposely omit emotion in your posts'. My theory is you do include emotion in your posts.
And because it appears to me you see the exact opposite of what i have said, it seems successful communication with you is currently not possible.
Our individual worlds are too far apart. |
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Post by silence on Feb 13, 2013 0:20:59 GMT -5
It's not just me, Silence.. there are quite a few that find it difficult to have discussions on this forum without the 'non-dual posse' derailing the process of open and honest discussion with their agendas and judgments and mockery.. [/quote] What do these open, honest discussions look like? Is there some forum you've participated on that you're looking to replicate the interactions? So, here's another question: the "one guy", and the 'posse', 'moved on', built a Realizing Happiness sanctuary for their believers, so.. have you asked the "one guy" why he doesn't find 'Happiness' where he 'moved on' to? Be well.. I don't really know what any of that means beyond the fact that you don't seem pleased that he didn't move exclusively to his forum. |
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Post by tzujanli on Feb 13, 2013 0:26:28 GMT -5
Greetings.. It's not just me, Silence.. there are quite a few that find it difficult to have discussions on this forum without the 'non-dual posse' derailing the process of open and honest discussion with their agendas and judgments and mockery.. What do these open, honest discussions look like? Is there some forum you've participated on that you're looking to replicate the interactions? So, here's another question: the "one guy", and the 'posse', 'moved on', built a Realizing Happiness sanctuary for their believers, so.. have you asked the "one guy" why he doesn't find 'Happiness' where he 'moved on' to?Be well.. Forget 'him' the question was for 'you', what is your intention? why do you ask me? this is an opportunity to look at what 'you' want from this exchange, and why.. Be well.. |
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Post by arisha on Feb 13, 2013 0:53:12 GMT -5
So you've found one guy on the internet you seemingly can't openly communicate with effectively. Why not just move on? It's not just me, Silence.. there are quite a few that find it difficult to have discussions on this forum without the 'non-dual posse' derailing the process of open and honest discussion with their agendas and judgments and mockery.. So, here's another question: the "one guy", and the 'posse', 'moved on', built a Realizing Happiness sanctuary for their believers, so.. have you asked the "one guy" why he doesn't find 'Happiness' where he 'moved on' to? Be well.. I agree with you, Tzu. There are quite a few, a lot of people who also agree with you. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2013 1:06:06 GMT -5
Greetings.. If we will simply look at what is happening, without attachments to beliefs, desires, goals,and expectations, much of the conflict apparent in this forum will fall away.. If you think you know the answer, keep looking.. If you know you know the answer, look more.. Believing that you know the answer, keeps you from seeing the possibility that there is much more unknown, than known.. it creates an unwillingness to 'look', even the 'great teachers' who believed their's was 'the' way, were attached and stuck to that 'limitation'.. not giving themselves the liberation to see clearly, but only to see what they 'believe'.. Mostly, we argue for our own limitations.. Be well..
Logically i see it as, if the truth has been found, searching is no longer required.
The problem witht the self created matrix is it's easy to label something as truth without it actually being the truth.
So as you say, keep looking when you think you have it all figured out.
I learnt this during my 7 year journey to heal myself of 40+years of severe depression and suidical thoughts.
The journey was only 7 years because i only became aware i had this illness back in early 2000's.
So from that day on, i explored and each year i would heal a major inner issue or two,
thinking i had totally resolved depression, only to crash and burn when it would manifest again.
It took me a few years to realise that i was attaching "this is the source of my depression" labels to things that was not the source.
Add to that, i was also expanding my awareness during the same time period,
gaining insights into things i had never seen before, growing in wisdom and understanding.
And what i noticed after the buzz of exhileration of healing a problem due to my increase in understanding,
when i would once again settle back into a calm still inner state of being, thus my range of sight became clear and expanded,
i was and still am in awe to see that even though i had gained so much ground,
when i looked out beyond the current position i was at, i saw the unknown area still unexplored went for miles and miles and miles.
So i designed a phrase to signify a principle i live by...
No matter how awesome the realizations/insights/revelations/bursts of enlightenment i achieve of a particualr topic,
when i look at the whole picture, i still have only touched the tip of my fingernail on the tip of an iceburg that is so huge, it looks infinite.
That whenever i think i know all there is to know of a subject, i humbly, joyfully and enthusiastically know i only know a speck of all there is to know of it.
So i apply what i have discovered, and i continue my journey, always open to receive new info to continue my transformation, healing and growth. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2013 1:14:08 GMT -5
I am interested to see what your opinion is of enigma's motivation(s) for his coffee comment. If it's as indepth as your assessment of arisha.
I want to make a distinction between what comes before the first comma and what comes after. Enigma is pointing out to Silver that she's making "I agree" posts.
The part the comes after the comma can be read with any number of colorings. It could be intended as humor. I've posted comments like that intending them humorously in the past (other forums). It could be a comment on how Enigma sees the value of those particular posts, meaning they don't do much to advance the on-topic conversations. It really depends on how the reader adds their own flavor since the statement itself is neutral.
comparitively, to me is nowhere near as indepth as your assessment of arisha.EDIT: layout |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2013 1:23:14 GMT -5
Okay, who just smote me? ;D I saw you pop in and out, Reefs. *snicker*
I have no idea who is doing the smoting, nor am interested in knowing.
I am only focused on both your scores. The tension is electrifying.
Is there a bookie in ST? ~chuckles and sighs~
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Post by arisha on Feb 13, 2013 1:29:35 GMT -5
You as*ume I purposely omit my emotional reaction for some mysterious non-dual purpose.
Because of the hilighted response, i have decided to end all communication with you
because i did not say 'i theorise you purposely omit emotion in your posts'. My theory is you do include emotion in your posts.
And because it appears to me you see the exact opposite of what i have said, it seems successful communication with you is currently not possible.
Our individual worlds are too far apart.It's not only you, M-G, who prefer to end all communication with E. Me, Silver, others told him the same. Of course, we have to respond to his replies if we are still here. As for me, I see it as wrong if I do not respond, and others (and those who may come to the forum) are subject to bullying and insulting in this or that way, directly or indirectly. Because they will be, sooner or later. E had been banned at all other forums as he himself said. This post of his where he says "You as*ume..." is such a hidden form of insulting which I would report to mod, but I am not sure if Peter agrees it's an insult. He may say there is nothing wrong about it (if he didn't see anything wrong in using the word 'bitch' about a woman - in any context). Yes, moderation is better now on this forum, because a year ago they made one guy, Steven, be stressed so much that he got a bit crazy, I think. But all that can be done is just to stop communicating with E, and you are right about it. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2013 1:42:44 GMT -5
I dunno about you Topology, but i have yet to see silver respond favourably to being pushed, but you go right ahead and continue pushing.
What i have noticed is people will conform to the desires of the forceful pusher, for a time.
But when the pushing ceases, the person reverts back to their natural state.
That people will change/conform soley to stop being pushed around. It's a temporary change.
If you have not done so yet, I would highly recommend reading the bad-poetry thread from the beginning. This provides a much needed context for the current dynamic between many of the players here. You've chosen to involve yourself, now please educate yourself. At least the first 20 pages, but it would be best to continue until past the point where Silver says she feels like an Atom-Bomb went off in her head and I helped her see that neither Reefs nor Enigma put that atom bomb there.
My pushing on Silver is exemplified in that thread. I understand the perspective that Enigma is coming from and I've been somewhat successful at translation.
Enigma's posting style is very easy to project interpretation onto. Either that is his natural mode of expression or he finds it useful for eliciting giraffes. His primary message is to become aware of the added interpretation we layer on top of what is actually said. Of course someone will have a hard time hearing that message when they feel like every interaction is pushing their buttons.
There's a difference between energetic domination and applying pressure to become more aware of the dynamics going on. You and Tzu both have made comparisons to RT. I see a difference. RT exemplified brainwashing. The challenging and pushing we do on this forum is more anti-hypnosis.
If nobody/nothing pushed on you during times of stagnation, would you have made as much an effort to become less stagnant? Pushing doesn't have to be negative. Yeah, the lazy part of us doesn't like it. The ego doesn't want to be told its missing something.
We are not talking about the same kind of pushing. A coach/teacher/friend/caring-family member will push when they see something as being in our best interest that we are not seeing for ourselves.
Over the last few days I've been sitting down with my wife being confrontational. We've been locked in co-dependency, passive-aggressive behavior, avoidance patterns etc. I'm wanting to move out of these dynamics with her. Pushing her to face these issues and to face our underlying unhappiness was exactly what was called for. I'm changing, ultimately if she doesn't change with me then I'm divorcing her. So I have to push on the stagnation to see if there is anything that can awaken and meet me as I move forward.
An intervention is pushing.
A come to Jesus meeting is pushing.
A let's grow up and start maturing talk is pushing.
It's pushing for growth, and the Ego hates it at first and perceives it as attack. (Course In Miracles)
I dunno about you Topology, but i have yet to see silver respond favourably to being pushed, but you go right ahead and continue pushing. |
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