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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2013 15:53:43 GMT -5
Ran out of time this morning, Huge PM in another forum and a huge response to laughter took all my 4 hrs today.
Will try again to clarify the blackmail issue next time.
MG ... not trying to single you out or attack you but your post raises an interesting point of focus. I know that I've gotten to the point where I'm going to put hard limits on the time I spend responding here on the ST forum.
I too , since leaving SF, have chosen to limit my net life.
Prioritizing my time is something i am a novice at and although it can be interpreted by another that i value them less if i spend time doing other things than hang with them,
in the light of my life and the priorities i choose, that may occur but i don't let it influence my decisions.
I have finite time while in human form, and i look for where i can make the best positive impact in life and enjoy my self.
So, regardless of how positive and enjoyable interactions are to me, private 1 on 1 conversations (on and offline) are at the top of the list,
so too is writing my first book, long walks on the abondoned traintrack, bush and beach and trying to emulate Ken Block on the dirt road to said beach.
So , no worries laughter, i am learning all too well the vital long term importance of prioritizing time.
I could spend easily 12+ hours a day here responding to so many interesting topics and perspectives,
but 'Priority' is one of a few key words i have been intergrating into my being these last few years.
EDIT: spelling |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2013 17:01:34 GMT -5
I've just been pointing away from those conditioned ideas ABOUT love. Among those ideas is that we all know what it is to act loving and that we can therefore choose it and practice it and ask Mr Love what he would do and such.
but are merely making an effort to direct people away from their ideas about love, onto your ideas about love,
like these ones... To claim love moves in the absence of people, then you would have to exist in a realm
where no one exists in order to see love moving independantly of humans, otherwise it is simply a theory, an idea.
Of course, for you to conclude your idea is a fact, and not just a mind created idea based on your interpretive observations of reality,
you must have had some 'no humans exist' experience and concluded the idea is sound.
However, in order to prove your claim, you would have to set up the conditions where no one exists in order to show others that love moves independantly without them.
To observe love without there being a human observer seems like a bit of a mind trick to perform.
As in how to be dead, and still observe love in a realm where everyone else is dead, then come back to life and tell other living beings what you saw,
let alone take other dead people to this place so they can see it for themselves and bring them all back to life so they can tell others what they saw.
It seems far more plausible and simple to theorise that love is an energy and is transmitted by conscious beings
who are aware of this energy and choose to transmit it towards other things in existance and can sense it coming from other beings.
Also, it seems uncharacteristic of a person who is motivated by love, to bludgeon others with their personal ideas about it
in order to influence others to adopt a love motivated state of being.
However, anyone can talk about love and try to influence others to change, and not be motivated by love when they do so.
Talking about love does not automatically mean a person is motivated by it when doing so.
These people are talkers, not doers. And if they have never done, then what do they know.
They simply share a lot of theory, ideas, beliefs, about the subject but have no real experience, all they have is images in their mindtanks about it.
Theories are tested to check the validity of them, and i can't see how "Love moves independantly of humans" can be tested by a human.
Sure, there can be a ton of words to explain the theory, to make is seem valid, but that's not testing it, that's just expanding a theory.
Making is so big it looks real, solid, tangible. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2013 17:19:01 GMT -5
Maybe it is and maybe it isn't. I'd say the moment mind turns love into a weapon to judge and condescend to others, it's time to see through that game.
Yeah but enigma...
say you are in an incident where a person switches from being nice to you, which Joe or Mary Average would cite, "Oh, being nice, that's a love motivated behavior."...
and the person turns and starts being mean to you, which Joe or Mary Average would cite, "Oh, being mean, that's a hate motivated behavior."...
That the person has not turned love into a weapon, but has simply changed tools of interaction. They were using love and switched over to hate.
So, in light of that theory, the only person using their mind to turn love into a weapon to judge and condescend, is you.
It is you who are observing reality and mentally concluding someone has turned love into a weapon, but they may not have.
They may have simply changed tools mid conversation.
So perhaps it is you who is playing mind games with yourself and are not aware of it because you are convinced your conclusions are the only explanation.
Notice i said, "perhaps" and "theory", so i am not claiming my observations are true.
I state my observations because they fit the scenario and thus become viable theories to explore if a person chooses to. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2013 18:23:32 GMT -5
I do know what you're saying but I don't see anybody kissing my ring. What I see is clear peeps and not so clear ones, and the clear ones are not interested in knocking down or kissing, just talking about what's really going on behind the curtain. Anybody who talks about what's going on behind the curtain is going to get knocked down.
According to what i have read since visiting and joining ST is that the majority of people aren't expressing their dislike of their curtain being pulled back,
but the way it is done.
(Granted, some of the deliveries from them are harsh thus not helping the situation. But hey, that's where love shines via forgiveness)
Intuitive call to add this to the post.
How awesome is love via forgiveness?
Well, 18 years ago me missus left me and shacked up with another guy fairly quickly.
2 year down the road, me still in severe inner pain from the breakup, she gave birth to their child.
I was still in 'wanting her back' mode and her having a kid to another man severely tested my resolve.
I chose love(forgiveness) and visited her in hospital, and boy was she surprised to see me there.
One of the scariest and hardest things i have done in my life.
Not the actual visit, but the inner journey to reach a state of being to choose to vist.
I asked if i could hold her child, she wept and said yes.
I held this child and felt love for him and her.
I said to her, i still love her, and i am willing to love(accept) this child as if it were my own,
in whatever capacity of relationship i would have with him seeing as i was not the actual father.
She later declined and years later i divorced her.
Love experiences like that helped change me to become the beautiful awesome person that i am today....true story.
Anyways...back to the main topic...
According to what i have read since visiting and joining ST is that the majority of people aren't expressing their dislike of their curtain being pulled back,
but the way it is done.
I think an apt street vernacular is 'bedside manner'.
Two doctors may have near identical skill levels, knowledge, expertise etc, but if one is insensitive, the patients will simply go to the other for help.
I am currently walking with someone, enjoying our time together and offering my help if i can provide it.
I do this whenever my intuition gives me the go ahead, cus there's so many to help and my time is limited.
Using your words, i am confident that this person is willingly examining deep behind thier curtain,
and they welcome and appreciate my efforts and the journey they are embarking on.
I found my self examination to be a most painful and scary experience, i was sensitive to the slightest bump or sudden exposure.
But with a little compassionate guidance, i slowly got the hang of it and hazzah,
i was into it courageously, passionately and willingly, regardless of what horrors might be discovered, and i found some humdingers along the way.
In my early explorations, if i came across someone with your "bedside manner",
i would recoil back into my safe secure self created matrix castle for long long time...oh long long time.
Now, near complete healing, i don't even feel i twinge of discomfort from the constant derogative remarks you aren't aware you express.
I see people here have been waving their arms at you to get your attention regarding your approach style,
but you just don't seem interested in exploring this or are convinced it's not part of the interaction problem.
Instead, as what i see is a clear example, you claim silver is the only problem in the interaction, that she is using blackmail. This story would be relevant if i knew why Anonsage stopped posting. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2013 18:53:55 GMT -5
Heey, speaking of love.
And silver, i expect you might get the biggest kick out of this as you are fairly clued up with my relationship with me crazy ol' Mah.
It's been just over two years now, and dear ol' Mah has just begun to want to go places with me.
Two reasons:
1: It took me a while to figure out that if i ask her to come with me, she will decline, but if i mention in passing that i am going to the beach sometime today,
she will, if her inner world is settled, she will ask if she can come.
2: She is slowly wanting to live instead of her usual self destructive thoughts she has, so she wants to go do things she actually likes.
So, the other day, she asked me and we went to the beach together.
Not for long as she is not up to long walks, due to illnesses and atrophy.
Talk about happy child mode though. Not exhuberently happy, but way happy compared to her usual mode.
Yesterday, this time i asked her if she would like to go to the beach as i said i might go to the beach if the weather is ok.
She went to feed chooks and pigs and i thought she would decline, but she burst in later and said, "I'm ready when you are."
Again, at the beach, happy child mode kicked in and increased in joyfulness from last time.
It was extra low tide so there were lots of things to examine and she ended up with a kilo or so of smooth pebbles and seashells.
She was so happy, enjoying life, carefree just like a kid.
It's taken me a gentle slow two years, but mah is starting to see the beauty of life that she has not seen for decades,
though still very sensitive, she interacts with life far better than she has for a long time.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2013 19:31:52 GMT -5
If anyone ever tells you they know the truth- run!
Why run, as they may actually have it.
It seems to me that running from someone saying something is the other side of a coin of which is blindly believing what they say.
Each act consists of not taking the time to examine what is being said.
If i come across someone who is claiming to know the truth about something that is relevant to my journey, i will take the time to listen, then examine and enquire if need be.
If i didn't stop and take the time to listen to a small sharing of Eastern Thought by some chick on a forum a few years ago,
of what initially sounded like utter nonsense to my understanding back then,
i would literally still be lost in my own extremely painful self delusion, and most likely would not be alive, as i already tried to end my life once 'cus i could not remove the pain.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2013 19:55:49 GMT -5
Innocence is the ability to give and receive love without holding on. Innocence is the ability to give and receive love without holding on. - Deepak Chopra Someone reading Deepak lately? 
This is where the issue of mild(my opinion) plagiarism was brought up by you reefs.
Although i am of the opinion that authors work should be acknowledged, aka i feel heterodox tripped up a tad by not doing so.
I am far more interested in why you brought it up in the first place.
As, like i said, i have gone back and reread the thread and cannot figure out your motive for doing so.
One minute everyone is happily involved in a heady mixture of drama and discussion about love,
and then all of a sudden you go nutso about heterodox's misdemeanor.
If you like, by expounding, i would like to gain some understanding of the incident. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2013 20:19:38 GMT -5
If anyone ever tells you they know the truth- run!
Why run, as they may actually have it.
It seems to me that running from someone saying something is the other side of a coin of which is blindly believing what they say.
Each act consists of not taking the time to examine what is being said.
If i come across someone who is claiming to know the truth about something that is relevant to my journey, i will take the time to listen, then examine and enquire if need be.
If i didn't stop and take the time to listen to a small sharing of Eastern Thought by some chick on a forum a few years ago,
of what initially sounded like utter nonsense to my understanding back then,
i would literally still be lost in my own extremely painful self delusion, and most likely would not be alive, as i already tried to end my life once 'cus i could not remove the pain.
Hi MG Thanks for your thoughtful post. One of the things I really do appreciate about reading your posts is the response is sure to include a balanced perspective. My response regarding running from one who 'knows' the truth was with regard to a newer member expressing another longtime member's malignant truth as Truth. My exposure to Eastern Thought back in the 90's was not an accident. I felt every expression being shared that evening, and I've felt the same in others expressing other facets of Truth with the same lightness. There's a genuine ease of Being in the words of a true teacher. It's unhurried. As though they have all the time in the world. I've read and felt the Truth pouring forth from a lot of member's here, but not as often as I did when I first became a member here. I respond in like kind when I read their expressions. I'm aware of who they are. Nice to meet you, MG. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2013 21:44:19 GMT -5
Why run, as they may actually have it.
It seems to me that running from someone saying something is the other side of a coin of which is blindly believing what they say.
Each act consists of not taking the time to examine what is being said.
If i come across someone who is claiming to know the truth about something that is relevant to my journey, i will take the time to listen, then examine and enquire if need be.
If i didn't stop and take the time to listen to a small sharing of Eastern Thought by some chick on a forum a few years ago,
of what initially sounded like utter nonsense to my understanding back then,
i would literally still be lost in my own extremely painful self delusion, and most likely would not be alive, as i already tried to end my life once 'cus i could not remove the pain.
Hi MG Thanks for your thoughtful post. One of the things I really do appreciate about reading your posts is the response is sure to include a balanced perspective. My response regarding running from one who 'knows' the truth was with regard to a newer member expressing another longtime member's malignant truth as Truth. My exposure to Eastern Thought back in the 90's was not an accident. I felt every expression being shared that evening, and I've felt the same in others expressing other facets of Truth with the same lightness. There's a genuine ease of Being in the words of a true teacher. It's unhurried. As though they have all the time in the world. I've read and felt the Truth pouring forth from a lot of member's here, but not as often as I did when I first became a member here. I respond in like kind when I read their expressions. I'm aware of who they are. Nice to meet you, MG.
Tnx, i try to remain as balanced as i am aware of each day and not take sides.
Try to see if there are alternative ways to view things.
Takes a lot longer to make decisions, but reduces simple but costly errors.
And the practice expands ones range of sight, to reach a conclusion and then challenge oneself to find an alternative.
I regard it's a natural attribute of humans and i can see that my several years as a single parent brought out my feminine energies,
So i regard my balanced approach is in relation to yin/yang.
Couple that with eastern astrology and numerology personality descriptions which all show a propensity towards balance.
Which is so funny, 'cus i was extremely way out of balance for the first 40 years of my human existence. Severely messed up in me mindtank.
I like how you describe your experience and the clarification of 'run away'.
From your post i see that a good way to jugde a person's claims is to observe the energy of the person sharing them.
If they are not living examples of what they "preach", that to me is an indication that something ain't right,
then it's a matter of exploring to see what's up with that.
Example:
One of the reasons i left the christian path was this example of many similar ones i saw on my travels.
It did not add up for me that a group in a church would passionately defend their belief in god's power to heal physical illnesses and deformities,
if they also have a permanent deaf ministry in their church, where the deaf members are signed the sermon each week
but they are never healed of their affliction.
And if enquired, they would point to numerous scriptures showing why god has chosen not to heal these people at this time,
or what problems the deaf had to not recieve god's free healing.
I look at the messenger of said truth for proof of it in their life as an indication of it's validity. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2013 22:14:35 GMT -5
EDIT: This post come to mind an hour or so ago, before i stopped to have lunch.
Heey, speaking of love.
Has anyone else noticed this.
i have noticed that when it comes to admitting mistakes, faults, sharing information about oneself that one is either embarrassed about, feels ashamed of or guilty about,
that people will far more often than not, openly and willingly share this info with people they feel secure with,
people they conclude loves them, people they conclude will not use this information against them,
people they regard as having a level of compassionate understanding of the imperfections and frailties that is common among the human species,
people that are more into forgiving than condemning.
A shorter version would be people are more open with people they regard as close trusted friends and not enemies.
So i see it's a two way street, that if someone is not forthcoming with you, perhaps it's the quality of your relationship to them, which can always be improved.
I also see a connection to the reluctance to be honest, even for very minor embarrassing things,
is related to the culture of serious and joking condemnation of people when they err.
I stumbled across a weird glitch in the matrix during the early part of my marriage, so that's in my early 20's.
If i was in a public place, usually a large food store and we're at the checkout,
and i did something that would be commonly accepted as embarassing, thus i began to feel the tinges of embarrassment rising,
if i joyfully declared out loud enough so people metres away could hear me,
"Oh this is embarrassing", or " Oh dear , i am so embarrassed",
the feelings of embarrassment, every time, would instantly disappear.
It's experiences like these that engage my enthusiasm to look inside.
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Post by Reefs on Feb 2, 2013 23:43:25 GMT -5
I see it this way. Flowing takes effort. Granted that flowing takes far less effort that other actions. But just like 'doing nothing', flowing still requires effort. Regardless of how autonomic an action is or is perceived to be, there is still effort occuring. To me, not being consciously aware of the effort does not equate to only, "There is no effort", as the other possibility is, "I don't sense any effort." The effortlessness I am talking about is the effortlessness of the one in the flow. A boat floating down the river doesn't involve any effort on the boats part. I can't convince you. You have to see yourself. And when you do, that will be the end of that kind of discussions. I just want you to take a look at what he describes as "flow experience" and how he describes it and what examples he provides to get an idea what non-doing and effortless means. And Dr. Csik uses the return key quite often and regularly so it will be a pleasant read.  What's there going on between you and Tahoma? |
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Post by silver on Feb 3, 2013 1:02:55 GMT -5
Heey, speaking of love.
And silver, i expect you might get the biggest kick out of this as you are fairly clued up with my relationship with me crazy ol' Mah.
It's been just over two years now, and dear ol' Mah has just begun to want to go places with me.
Two reasons:
1: It took me a while to figure out that if i ask her to come with me, she will decline, but if i mention in passing that i am going to the beach sometime today,
she will, if her inner world is settled, she will ask if she can come.
2: She is slowly wanting to live instead of her usual self destructive thoughts she has, so she wants to go do things she actually likes.
So, the other day, she asked me and we went to the beach together.
Not for long as she is not up to long walks, due to illnesses and atrophy.
Talk about happy child mode though. Not exhuberently happy, but way happy compared to her usual mode.
Yesterday, this time i asked her if she would like to go to the beach as i said i might go to the beach if the weather is ok.
She went to feed chooks and pigs and i thought she would decline, but she burst in later and said, "I'm ready when you are."
Again, at the beach, happy child mode kicked in and increased in joyfulness from last time.
It was extra low tide so there were lots of things to examine and she ended up with a kilo or so of smooth pebbles and seashells.
She was so happy, enjoying life, carefree just like a kid.
It's taken me a gentle slow two years, but mah is starting to see the beauty of life that she has not seen for decades,
though still very sensitive, she interacts with life far better than she has for a long time.Hah, you're a clever guy, M-G. So glad you've slowly but surely coaxed her out and about with you - she obviously needs to do this - the out-of-doors is so healing.  |
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Post by laughter on Feb 3, 2013 1:35:03 GMT -5
Heey, speaking of love.
And silver, i expect you might get the biggest kick out of this as you are fairly clued up with my relationship with me crazy ol' Mah.
It's been just over two years now, and dear ol' Mah has just begun to want to go places with me.
Two reasons:
1: It took me a while to figure out that if i ask her to come with me, she will decline, but if i mention in passing that i am going to the beach sometime today,
she will, if her inner world is settled, she will ask if she can come.
2: She is slowly wanting to live instead of her usual self destructive thoughts she has, so she wants to go do things she actually likes.
So, the other day, she asked me and we went to the beach together.
Not for long as she is not up to long walks, due to illnesses and atrophy.
Talk about happy child mode though. Not exhuberently happy, but way happy compared to her usual mode.
Yesterday, this time i asked her if she would like to go to the beach as i said i might go to the beach if the weather is ok.
She went to feed chooks and pigs and i thought she would decline, but she burst in later and said, "I'm ready when you are."
Again, at the beach, happy child mode kicked in and increased in joyfulness from last time.
It was extra low tide so there were lots of things to examine and she ended up with a kilo or so of smooth pebbles and seashells.
She was so happy, enjoying life, carefree just like a kid.
It's taken me a gentle slow two years, but mah is starting to see the beauty of life that she has not seen for decades,
though still very sensitive, she interacts with life far better than she has for a long time.Hah, you're a clever guy, M-G. So glad you've slowly but surely coaxed her out and about with you - she obviously needs to do this - the out-of-doors is so healing. Heartening story MG. Reefs is right about the brush clearing or trip to the optomotrist or whatever it was you were talking about ... my guess is that he got that Ritalin prescription filled. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2013 10:29:46 GMT -5
Innocence is the ability to give and receive love without holding on. - Deepak Chopra Someone reading Deepak lately?
This is where the issue of mild(my opinion) plagiarism was brought up by you reefs.
Although i am of the opinion that authors work should be acknowledged, aka i feel heterodox tripped up a tad by not doing so.
I went back and looked at the exchange, especially the time passed between exchanges. One poster was was expressing limited thought about love, I posted words pointing at a more expansive view. As I pointed out, I've been reading Deepak every day for 20 years, and continue to do so every day. I felt the context of the posts were well within the framework of the discussion, and the intention behind the posts was to express a more expansive viewpoint about love. No hidden motive there. I agreed to quote authors as a result. But I didn't see the same agreement offered by reefs or enigma. Somebody authored the expressions they were sharing. The posts had a rote quality to them. Chopra's quite easy to quote in a discussion. Love dances in the freshness of the unknown. No copy and paste necessary. It's there at a touch. Alive. And a helluva lot fresher than the stale, repetitive memory of non dual dogma R&E are constantly engaged in. |
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Post by Reefs on Feb 3, 2013 10:41:06 GMT -5
I've gone back and reread from page one.
This is where the issue of mild(my opinion) plagiarism was brought up by you reefs.
Although i am of the opinion that authors work should be acknowledged, aka i feel heterodox tripped up a tad by not doing so.
I went back and looked at the exchange, especially the time passed between exchanges. One poster was was expressing limited thought about love, I posted words pointing at a more expansive view. As I pointed out, I've been reading Deepak every day for 20 years, and continue to do so every day. I felt the context of the posts were well within the framework of the discussion, and the intention behind the posts was to express a more expansive viewpoint about love. No hidden motive there. I agreed to quote authors as a result. But I didn't see the same agreement offered by reefs or enigma. Somebody authored the expressions they were sharing. The posts had a rote quality to them. Chopra's quite easy to quote in a discussion. Love dances in the freshness of the unknown. No copy and paste necessary. It's there at a touch. Alive. And a helluva lot fresher than the stale, repetitive memory of non dual dogma R&E are constantly engaged in.  Oh yeah, blame it on reefs and enigma again. |
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