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Post by arisha on Jan 31, 2013 5:06:54 GMT -5
I said many times that Western spirituality is NOT a spirituality (though the reason was different : no practice. It can be called 'a philosophy' but not 'spirituality'. It is not only MY opinion but this is what is a common knowledge about Western spirituality on the whole East starting from Russia, maybe even more to the West, from Poland. Please, don't be offended. If you look the definition of the word 'spirituality' in Wikipedia (it was made by Westerners, btw) you will see that 'practical' approach is included in it, btw ("the deepest values by which people LIVE"), but people here don't want to notice those words... If my spirituality is freezing cold - it can be because of the use of words, ( the Truth is also freezing) - but not in practice. I feel it to be better than vice-versa, no? No offense taken. I can well believe that the East doesn't really see Western spirituality as spirituality. I think I really can see what you see, though because of where I come from, and the way my path has unfolded, I can see value in the Western approach....particularly for Westerners. I understand that in practise your spirituality is not freezing cold. To Westerners though, it might seem it. Oh, you know, Andrew, I can see it a bit different now. Oh, yes, you are right. Those different accents in mentality can result in different accents in spirituality ! I like the image you used about warm and cold waters! |
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Post by andrew on Jan 31, 2013 5:09:33 GMT -5
No offense taken. I can well believe that the East doesn't really see Western spirituality as spirituality. I think I really can see what you see, though because of where I come from, and the way my path has unfolded, I can see value in the Western approach....particularly for Westerners. I understand that in practise your spirituality is not freezing cold. To Westerners though, it might seem it. Oh, you know, Andrew, I can see it a bit different now. Oh, yes, you are right. Those different accents in mentality can result in different accents in spirituality ! I like the image you used about warm and cold waters!  |
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Post by arisha on Jan 31, 2013 6:59:45 GMT -5
Spirituality is really freezing cold. Philosophy is a better, warmer water. Yes, it can be seen from this point of view. I feel it exciting.
Is it healthy or not to swim in the freezing water?
Now some music.
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Post by topology on Jan 31, 2013 7:52:58 GMT -5
ATAing, Noticing, being present, aware, and non-attached, this is a practical approach to living and is talked about here all the time. From a 'cold waters' point of view, I think all of that would be a self-indulgent or self-centered game, because its all done for the sake of the individual. Or to put another way, there is no 'serving' in it. Don't get me wrong though, I can see value in that stuff. I know, you are playing the role of translator. Let's run with this East/West difference being put forward. The "East" approach is to actively engage in service with the side-effect of becoming egoless. The "West" approach is to engage in anti-ego activities with the side-effect of becoming of service to others. It's climbing the same damn mountain from different directions. Of course the east mountain climber is in horror of the western approach because there is no overt focus on serving. The western approach is walking easterly and the Eastern approach is walking westerly. Ah well. Yeah for approach elitism. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2013 8:02:59 GMT -5
I know, you are playing the role of translator. Let's run with this East/West difference being put forward. The "East" approach is to actively engage in service with the side-effect of becoming egoless. The "West" approach is to engage in anti-ego activities with the side-effect of becoming of service to others. It's climbing the same darn mountain from different directions. Of course the east mountain climber is in horror of the western approach because there is no overt focus on serving. The western approach is walking easterly and the Eastern approach is walking westerly. Ah well. Yeah for approach elitism. This model makes sense, but looking at it as it has been presented allows me to see the eastern approach as more wholly integrated from the get go. Everything, including ego is serving the Self. |
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Post by andrew on Jan 31, 2013 8:09:04 GMT -5
From a 'cold waters' point of view, I think all of that would be a self-indulgent or self-centered game, because its all done for the sake of the individual. Or to put another way, there is no 'serving' in it. Don't get me wrong though, I can see value in that stuff. I know, you are playing the role of translator. Let's run with this East/West difference being put forward. The "East" approach is to actively engage in service with the side-effect of becoming egoless. The "West" approach is to engage in anti-ego activities with the side-effect of becoming of service to others. It's climbing the same darn mountain from different directions. Of course the east mountain climber is in horror of the western approach because there is no overt focus on serving. The western approach is walking easterly and the Eastern approach is walking westerly. Ah well. Yeah for approach elitism. Yes, I think that's pretty much it, though I also see some parties of the western approach in horror because the eastern approach is seen to be about 'the person'. Personally, I think there is something to be said for both sides. East meets West hehe. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2013 8:25:48 GMT -5
Hi, various Clubs members! ;D About Tolle. I don't know what people have found in his teaching, really don't know. It is not an authentic teaching. I don't think it's possible to call it a teaching at all. It's just a compilation from zen and some other teachings - done with crucial distortions, and presented as something new and valuable. The core is missing, and what is left is floating around senselessly. That is why his teaching doesn't help. He is not able to understand why it doesn't help, but he pretends everything is ok, though he does know that the teaching is useless for people. Instead of investigating why his teaching creates even more problems instead of giving help he prefers not noticing that. But he certainly knows something is wrong. So many people after trying his method start asking : and what? Why is there the same depression or even more? And those who didn't have any negative experience about the reality start having it instead of receiving more light and hope, and also ask : what to do about it? Does Tolle know about such outcomes? Sure, he does. What is his answer to those questions? The same as what he has recommended before. He doesn't care about others problems, about learning from them, about helping anybody with them. You may say why he had such a success (bestseller #1, the best spiritual teacher, etc.) if his teaching doesn't work, and why he is still popular? It just happened. He happened to be the one who was liked for the simplicity of his method (people prefer to be given something simple, the simpler the better.) And it occurred on a due time, when religions don't have such an influence as before because the level of life is so high in the West that everybody can be well without any God. But still people need something else. Now it's a something to cope with boredom. When one has all they need and even more, they start feeling boredom. Even depression. And here comes E.Tolle who managed to cope with his boredom! Point well taken.. Do you think he is known in other parts of the world where people are not provided so well? Nobody reads his ridiculous teachings there! People are not bored there - that's why. They suffer from other things, but no one has a depression. Those who have it are so rare. But here, in the US, I can listen about it every day: Ask your doctor about Simbolta. Depression hurts... As for Tolle's "philosophy", - let me tell you that he has no philosophy of his own at all. Nothing. Just empty words. I dunno know about you, top, but on this end 'rishi's viewpoint came through loud and clear. |
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Post by topology on Jan 31, 2013 8:30:45 GMT -5
Hi, various Clubs members! ;D Point well taken.. Do you think he is known in other parts of the world where people are not provided so well? Nobody reads his ridiculous teachings there! People are not bored there - that's why. They suffer from other things, but no one has a depression. Those who have it are so rare. But here, in the US, I can listen about it every day: Ask your doctor about Simbolta. Depression hurts... As for Tolle's "philosophy", - let me tell you that he has no philosophy of his own at all. Nothing. Just empty words. I dunno know about you, top, but on this end 'rishi's viewpoint came through loud and clear. What came through loud and clear? That depression and boredom is mostly a western(developed nation) disease? I would agree with that. The rest, has rotting tomato in it. |
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Post by topology on Jan 31, 2013 8:32:03 GMT -5
I know, you are playing the role of translator. Let's run with this East/West difference being put forward. The "East" approach is to actively engage in service with the side-effect of becoming egoless. The "West" approach is to engage in anti-ego activities with the side-effect of becoming of service to others. It's climbing the same darn mountain from different directions. Of course the east mountain climber is in horror of the western approach because there is no overt focus on serving. The western approach is walking easterly and the Eastern approach is walking westerly. Ah well. Yeah for approach elitism. This model makes sense, but looking at it as it has been presented allows me to see the eastern approach as more wholly integrated from the get go. Everything, including ego is serving the Self. Someone walking from the eastern sea board would have that sense of it. I.E. confirmation bias. |
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Post by topology on Jan 31, 2013 8:39:17 GMT -5
This model makes sense, but looking at it as it has been presented allows me to see the eastern approach as more wholly integrated from the get go. Everything, including ego is serving the Self. Someone walking from the eastern sea board would have that sense of it. I.E. confirmation bias. Let me add to that point. Perhaps the people walking from a western direction sense that path is more whole for them. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2013 8:44:45 GMT -5
What came through loud and clear? That depression and boredom is mostly a western(developed nation) disease? I would agree with that. The rest, has rotting tomato in it. The italicized paragraph. Where I posted - point well taken. Sounds like there's a tomato epidemic near the Gulf of Mexico. ;D |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2013 8:50:16 GMT -5
Someone walking from the eastern sea board would have that sense of it. I.E. confirmation bias. Let me add to that point. Perhaps the people walking from a western direction sense that path is more whole for them. I am a child of the middle orchard. I live in the Mid-West. I happen to see the value in turning the ego around. eh |
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Post by topology on Jan 31, 2013 9:44:23 GMT -5
What came through loud and clear? That depression and boredom is mostly a western(developed nation) disease? I would agree with that. The rest, has rotting tomato in it. The italicized paragraph. Where I posted - point well taken. Sounds like there's a tomato epidemic near the Gulf of Mexico. ;D Tomatoes aren't native to West Texas. We've been using a distributor, Tomatoes International. I've asked where their supplier is. Either the packaging is wrong or the distance is just too great, but the tomatoes from russia just don't seem to survive the trip. |
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Post by Reefs on Jan 31, 2013 9:51:51 GMT -5
I know, you are playing the role of translator. Let's run with this East/West difference being put forward. The "East" approach is to actively engage in service with the side-effect of becoming egoless. The "West" approach is to engage in anti-ego activities with the side-effect of becoming of service to others. It's climbing the same darn mountain from different directions. Of course the east mountain climber is in horror of the western approach because there is no overt focus on serving. The western approach is walking easterly and the Eastern approach is walking westerly. Ah well. Yeah for approach elitism. Yes, I think that's pretty much it, though I also see some parties of the western approach in horror because the eastern approach is seen to be about 'the person'. Personally, I think there is something to be said for both sides. East meets West hehe. What a nonsense. There is no difference except in appearance. The eastern neo-dvaita rap is not different from the western neo-advaita rap. So forget your synthesis, they are already one, hehe. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2013 9:52:17 GMT -5
The italicized paragraph. Where I posted - point well taken. Sounds like there's a tomato epidemic near the Gulf of Mexico. ;D Tomatoes aren't native to West Texas. We've been using a distributor, Tomatoes International. I've asked where their supplier is. Either the packaging is wrong or the distance is just too great, but the tomatoes from russia just don't seem to survive the trip. ;D There is a well-heeled interest group that thinks they may have a solution for ya in the growing region of the desert southwest. Their idea is to divert water from the Great Lakes to their region. All I have to say to them is this. Over my dead body. Sounds like somebody could make a lot of money reinventing the shipping container. ;D |
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