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Post by enigma on Jan 27, 2013 3:44:05 GMT -5
I mean that you begin from your belief that I brutally attack the vulnerable, and you look for confirmation of that in James' post, going so far as to suspect he may have actually said the words happening in your head, though he clearly did not. It happened because you put the carrot before the donkey. I know what I read, but I needed some clarification from the author. Your amazingly defensive about it - and offensive towards me, making wild accusations about something I never said! go back and read it, it's only a page away. I never said what you accused me of saying. You don't know what you read. I'm not being defensive or offensive to you. Not making accusations, just saying what happened. Not talking about anything you said. Go back and read what he said, then read your post and see if you can figure out where your question to James came from. (Hint: I just told you where it came from) |
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Post by enigma on Jan 27, 2013 3:52:56 GMT -5
Greetings.. What imaginings? You mean the imagining that virtually every post Tzu makes is an unprovoked attack, or that Arisha is at least as harsh as anyone on this forum? Hi E: You can't quite grasp your own dilemma.. you state that everything is imagined, but then you can't even get along with your own imagination, and you want to blame others for it.. no takers at the 'Realizing Happiness' clubhouse, eh.. figured you'd spread a little of that 'realized happiness' over here, huh.. you're quite the ambassador for 'realized happiness', between you and reefs, i can't recall two less happy forum dwellers.. well, unless you've provoked others into sharing your misery, then your positively giddy.. No, seriously, how's that happiness forum working out? keepin' you busy? lots o good ol rezzin going on over there? just stopping in for 20 or 30 posts a day over here to say hi to your old buddies?... yeah, that's what i thought, just keeping your finely honed judgmental edge all polished and shiny.. well heck, stop on by next time you run out of cool rezzin' things to do over at the Hotel Happiness.. i hear you're building better mousetraps over there.. no? 'imagine' that, rumors.. Be well.. What's that you keep accusing me of?........Oh, yeah, mocking and ridiculing. |
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Post by enigma on Jan 27, 2013 4:04:14 GMT -5
It's always amazing what a still mind is capable of doing. Apparently, with a still mind you can see endless herds of giraffes stretching to the horizon.  |
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Post by enigma on Jan 27, 2013 4:07:02 GMT -5
Yes, and Love is not personal and not impersonal. It's not an ambiguous paradox and it's not that the personal and the impersonal love are the same. It means nothing is more intimate than oneness. To know what that means I expect you would have to know what Love is. We all know what love is. You are not one of the rare few that have a reference for love. This reminds me of what James said above. The reason people knock you down is for elitism and because you set yourself apart and above (like here). The reason people kiss your ring (!) is because they want to be one of the elite few. That's not what James said either. |
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Post by andrew on Jan 27, 2013 4:09:31 GMT -5
We all know what love is. You are not one of the rare few that have a reference for love. This reminds me of what James said above. The reason people knock you down is for elitism and because you set yourself apart and above (like here). The reason people kiss your ring (!) is because they want to be one of the elite few. That's not what James said either. I know he didn't. But what you said reminded me of James saying that people are either having a go at you or kissing your ring (!). |
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Post by whiteshaman on Jan 27, 2013 10:09:35 GMT -5
Some twist the words you use and others seem to try to impress you. There is something about you that brings on these 'egoic' reactions to you. I'm not sure why that is but it is the energy of what is going on whether people want to admit that or not. It's not your fault but you have 'set' yourself up to be either respected or hated. Starting forums, being greatly involved in posting in forums, writing papers, giving instruction, creating your own web site related to this stuff..... Do you know what i am saying? I do but it's hard to relay it. Basically I see that you are reaping the results of your actions by setting yourself up as you have. Some want to knock you down and others want to kiss your ring. Both are the actions of children. I do know what you're saying but I don't see anybody kissing my ring. What I see is clear peeps and not so clear ones, and the clear ones are not interested in knocking down or kissing, just talking about what's really going on behind the curtain. Anybody who talks about what's going on behind the curtain is going to get knocked down. It really has nothing to do with websites and separate forums and post count, since I was getting knocked down long before there was any of that. Short story here I just remembered. Several years ago I stumbled across some old posts by somebody who called himself Anonsage. Both the sage part and the anonymous parts I will testify to as appropriate. I spent some time trying to track him down because his posts were vibrantly clear and very gentle in the delivery. I followed his posts through a few forums and watched him get insulted, degraded, spit on and finally nailed to the cross in one particularly belligerent encounter, after which he never posted again, at least under that name. What I saw was wisdom despised and innocence crucified. A peek behind the curtain reveals that this is, and always has been, the nature of humankind. There is no mystery here. Yea, I'm not surprised to hear that this has been happening before all the websites, forums and posts (not saying I agree with your thoughts on what is actually happening..'clear and unclear peeps'). It has to do with human nature for sure which is why I said the reactions I see, be it conflicting or ring kissing are not sincere. And just to be clear, as I know you know this, I was not trying to suggest 'why' you set yourself up...only that you have set yourself up. I would never start a website or a forum but that's me. In fact I see all this as a deterent for me but again, that's me. I'll end by saying that it is obvious that when words are said that cut thru to someones unconscious reasons for acting as they do, that they will either love you or crucify you..........but...........quite simply, the one cutting thru could be wrong. I find that intuition in such matters as the source of seeing thru someone else (like you did with Silver here), can't always be trusted. I'm curious though: What makes you think you are right about Silver's reason for what she said (even after she said that you were wrong about that? What makes you think you can discern clear and not so clear or sincern interest and lack of interest in what's going on? See to me, here again...you have set yourself up, this time with your choice of words. Is it simply that you trust your intuition to know what is clear or who is insincere or why someone says what they say? Just trying to understand....... |
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Post by Beingist on Jan 27, 2013 10:20:44 GMT -5
Greetings.. Hi E: You can't quite grasp your own dilemma.. you state that everything is imagined, but then you can't even get along with your own imagination, and you want to blame others for it.. no takers at the 'Realizing Happiness' clubhouse, eh.. figured you'd spread a little of that 'realized happiness' over here, huh.. you're quite the ambassador for 'realized happiness', between you and reefs, i can't recall two less happy forum dwellers.. well, unless you've provoked others into sharing your misery, then your positively giddy.. No, seriously, how's that happiness forum working out? keepin' you busy? lots o good ol rezzin going on over there? just stopping in for 20 or 30 posts a day over here to say hi to your old buddies?... yeah, that's what i thought, just keeping your finely honed judgmental edge all polished and shiny.. well heck, stop on by next time you run out of cool rezzin' things to do over at the Hotel Happiness.. i hear you're building better mousetraps over there.. no? 'imagine' that, rumors.. Be well.. What's that you keep accusing me of?........Oh, yeah, mocking and ridiculing. Maybe you just need to put your mocking, ridiculing posts between 'Greetings', and 'Be well', E, and he won't accuse you of so much mocking and ridiculing? |
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Post by tzujanli on Jan 27, 2013 11:08:48 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. Hi E: You can't quite grasp your own dilemma.. you state that everything is imagined, but then you can't even get along with your own imagination, and you want to blame others for it.. no takers at the 'Realizing Happiness' clubhouse, eh.. figured you'd spread a little of that 'realized happiness' over here, huh.. you're quite the ambassador for 'realized happiness', between you and reefs, i can't recall two less happy forum dwellers.. well, unless you've provoked others into sharing your misery, then your positively giddy.. No, seriously, how's that happiness forum working out? keepin' you busy? lots o good ol rezzin going on over there? just stopping in for 20 or 30 posts a day over here to say hi to your old buddies?... yeah, that's what i thought, just keeping your finely honed judgmental edge all polished and shiny.. well heck, stop on by next time you run out of cool rezzin' things to do over at the Hotel Happiness.. i hear you're building better mousetraps over there.. no? 'imagine' that, rumors.. Be well.. Excellent!!.. i've been trying to determine if you even understood the concept of "mocking and ridiculing", so it seems that you do.. well, you see it in others.. i invite you to to look at interactions through the eyes of others.. Be well.. |
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Post by tzujanli on Jan 27, 2013 11:17:55 GMT -5
Greetings.. So much gossip and so little time to respond. Here's a pointer from Ramakrishna. I think it sums it up quite well. So.. if someone is about to harm your child, and the harm is imminent, and the 'show of tamas' is not effective, do you not act until the harm is done? Be well.. |
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Post by arisha on Jan 27, 2013 13:38:29 GMT -5
It's always amazing what a still mind is capable of doing. Apparently, with a still mind you can see endless herds of giraffes stretching to the horizon. I'm not being defensive or offensive to you, Enigma. Not making accusations, just saying what happened. One can see endless herds of your giraffes - with a still mind, or with not a still mind but it is apparent and obvious to everybody how many giraffes you have. You seem to close your eyes, you don't see your giraffes, and you have no other interest but to be looking for other giraffes and to be endlessly talking about them. This kind of projection shows everybody how many giraffes you have yourself. Your inability to talk about your own giraffes adds more giraffes to the herds of your giraffes. In the light of this I doubt that your endless talking about other giraffes is good for achieving your goals whatever they could be. Just saying. What is your goal as regards your intend to destroy beliefs? Do you want to be energized by the destruction? Or do you want to render help with the destruction? Why are you sure that such a destruction, coming from you, can be helpful if you want to help? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2013 13:56:32 GMT -5
Some twist the words you use and others seem to try to impress you. There is something about you that brings on these 'egoic' reactions to you. I'm not sure why that is but it is the energy of what is going on whether people want to admit that or not. It's not your fault but you have 'set' yourself up to be either respected or hated. Starting forums, being greatly involved in posting in forums, writing papers, giving instruction, creating your own web site related to this stuff..... Do you know what i am saying? I do but it's hard to relay it. Basically I see that you are reaping the results of your actions by setting yourself up as you have. Some want to knock you down and others want to kiss your ring. Both are the actions of children. I do know what you're saying but I don't see anybody kissing my ring. What I see is clear peeps and not so clear ones, and the clear ones are not interested in knocking down or kissing, just talking about what's really going on behind the curtain. Anybody who talks about what's going on behind the curtain is going to get knocked down. It really has nothing to do with websites and separate forums and post count, since I was getting knocked down long before there was any of that. Short story here I just remembered. Several years ago I stumbled across some old posts by somebody who called himself Anonsage. Both the sage part and the anonymous parts I will testify to as appropriate. I spent some time trying to track him down because his posts were vibrantly clear and very gentle in the delivery. I followed his posts through a few forums and watched him get insulted, degraded, spit on and finally nailed to the cross in one particularly belligerent encounter, after which he never posted again, at least under that name. What I saw was wisdom despised and innocence crucified. A peek behind the curtain reveals that this is, and always has been, the nature of humankind. There is no mystery here. As long as you continue to cling to this story (wisdom is despised and innocence is crucified) you will continue to create and live it. "Wisdom is despised and innocence is crucified", is nothing more than a belief and as beliefs go, this one can wreak great havoc. It's particularly tough to see behind the curtain when a particular story is serving our ego. I can see why this story is so hard for you to let go of, as there are so many perks you derive from holding tightly to it. The benefits of letting go though, would make those pale in comparison.  |
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Post by james on Jan 27, 2013 14:00:12 GMT -5
That'll be (everybody - 1) if you want to include me in the equation. I find him to be startlingly clear.
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Post by arisha on Jan 27, 2013 14:25:10 GMT -5
That'll be (everybody - 1) if you want to include me in the equation. I find him to be startlingly clear. I don't find him clear. Sure, the "equation" is made bearing in mind that sharing his ideas about himself means to be subtracted. Being clear doesn't necessarily mean to get rid of one's own giraffes, though. |
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Post by enigma on Jan 27, 2013 18:22:57 GMT -5
I do know what you're saying but I don't see anybody kissing my ring. What I see is clear peeps and not so clear ones, and the clear ones are not interested in knocking down or kissing, just talking about what's really going on behind the curtain. Anybody who talks about what's going on behind the curtain is going to get knocked down. It really has nothing to do with websites and separate forums and post count, since I was getting knocked down long before there was any of that. Short story here I just remembered. Several years ago I stumbled across some old posts by somebody who called himself Anonsage. Both the sage part and the anonymous parts I will testify to as appropriate. I spent some time trying to track him down because his posts were vibrantly clear and very gentle in the delivery. I followed his posts through a few forums and watched him get insulted, degraded, spit on and finally nailed to the cross in one particularly belligerent encounter, after which he never posted again, at least under that name. What I saw was wisdom despised and innocence crucified. A peek behind the curtain reveals that this is, and always has been, the nature of humankind. There is no mystery here. Yea, I'm not surprised to hear that this has been happening before all the websites, forums and posts (not saying I agree with your thoughts on what is actually happening..'clear and unclear peeps'). It has to do with human nature for sure which is why I said the reactions I see, be it conflicting or ring kissing are not sincere. And just to be clear, as I know you know this, I was not trying to suggest 'why' you set yourself up...only that you have set yourself up. I would never start a website or a forum but that's me. In fact I see all this as a deterent for me but again, that's me. I'll end by saying that it is obvious that when words are said that cut thru to someones unconscious reasons for acting as they do, that they will either love you or crucify you..........but...........quite simply, the one cutting thru could be wrong. I find that intuition in such matters as the source of seeing thru someone else (like you did with Silver here), can't always be trusted. I'm curious though: What makes you think you are right about Silver's reason for what she said (even after she said that you were wrong about that? What makes you think you can discern clear and not so clear or sincern interest and lack of interest in what's going on? See to me, here again...you have set yourself up, this time with your choice of words. Is it simply that you trust your intuition to know what is clear or who is insincere or why someone says what they say? Just trying to understand....... Short of admitting to wrongdoing, (faulty perception) I don't know how that issue (question) can be resolved. I asked Silver where her question came from but she's not going to answer because she thinks I'm trying to hurt her. Where would you guess it came from? Look through her eyes and see if you can tell where it came about. |
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Post by arisha on Jan 27, 2013 18:36:58 GMT -5
I've found the poem I asked you about.
Thirteen Ways of Looking at a Blackbird
by Wallace Stevens
Among twenty snowy mountains,
The only moving thing
Was the eye of the blackbird.
II
I was of three minds,
Like a tree
In which there are three blackbirds.
III
The blackbird whirled in the autumn winds.
It was a small part of the pantomime.
IV
A man and a woman
Are one.
A man and a woman and a blackbird
Are one.
V
I do not know which to prefer,
The beauty of inflections
Or the beauty of innuendoes,
The blackbird whistling
Or just after.
VI
Icicles filled the long window
With barbaric glass.
The shadow of the blackbird
Crossed it, to and fro.
The mood
Traced in the shadow
An indecipherable cause.
VII
O thin men of Haddam,
Why do you imagine golden birds?
Do you not see how the blackbird
Walks around the feet
Of the women about you?
VIII
I know noble accents
And lucid, inescapable rhythms;
But I know, too,
That the blackbird is involved
In what I know.
IX
When the blackbird flew out of sight,
It marked the edge
Of one of many circles.
X
At the sight of blackbirds
Flying in a green light,
Even the bawds of euphony
Would cry out sharply.
XI
He rode over Connecticut
In a glass coach.
Once, a fear pierced him,
In that he mistook
The shadow of his equipage
For blackbirds.
XII
The river is moving.
The blackbird must be flying.
XIII
It was evening all afternoon.
It was snowing
And it was going to snow.
The blackbird sat
In the cedar-limbs.
Sometimes light takes the form of a blackbird, yes. Light is equal to black in a mathematics.
I always liked the poem though I couldn't explain why. Today I've realized the reason of it. I googled more and found the following quotations from Wallace Stevens:
“Perhaps the truth depends on a walk around the lake.”
“The only emperor is the emperor of ice cream.”
“Throw away the light, the definitions, and say what you see in the dark.”
"The final belief is to believe in a fiction, which you know to be a fiction, there being nothing else. The exquisite truth is to know that it is a fiction and that you believe in it willingly.”
“in the presence of extraordinary actuality, consciousness takes the place of imagination.”
“A violent order is disorder; and a great disorder is an order. These two things are one.”
“God and the imagination are one.”
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