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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2013 15:36:45 GMT -5
The one who thinks love is sex, or compromise, or getting what they want, obviously doesn't know the same love that others know. To say everyone knows the same love is your way of convincing yourself that you know, and that others can't know something you don't. If you think Love is yours to give, then you don't know Love. Sex is sex, compromise is compromise, mother's love is mother's love, - who would say these are all the same?  But there is 'love' - which can join sex, which is a part of mother's love, or a heroic person's love, - and which origin is the idea of love. Nicely said Arisha.  |
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Post by enigma on Jan 26, 2013 15:36:52 GMT -5
Indeed I do! There is a mind split of which Tzu is not aware. He sees himself as open, sincere and wanting a mature discussion, but the warrior cannot stop waving his sword. A story of justification (I give what I get) and projection (others are trying to enforce their beliefs through violence) is developed in order to reconcile these parts. Tzu is one of the most peaceful members of this forum!  Would you say you are the next most peaceful? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2013 15:42:36 GMT -5
It drains my energy to be here. How could it not? Climbing up steep hill after steep hill, every single day because of some sense of duty to some imagined 'higher purpose' will result in that. I find it so interesting that this is your experience, and yet you spend Soooo much time here. My time here feels like a lovely downhill glide....it relaxes me and even energizes me because I enjoy it. What is it that motivates you to come to a place, again and again that drains your energy and makes you feel frustrated? What belief is operating behind your sense of importance in coming here to do what you do? I"m genuinely curious E. I find this very puzzling. |
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Post by silver on Jan 26, 2013 15:44:05 GMT -5
Tzu is one of the most peaceful members of this forum! Would you say you are the next most peaceful? I dare say you are the one imagining that sword, E. Long ago, your compadre, Top convinced me more or less, that black print on a white page were harmless. I do get what he's talking about - if you're a man of peace (I know, you never claimed that or something like that), why are having all these imaginings? |
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Post by enigma on Jan 26, 2013 15:44:46 GMT -5
Sex is sex, compromise is compromise, mother's love is mother's love, - who would say these are all the same? But there is 'love' - which can join sex, which is a part of mother's love, or a heroic person's love, - and which origin is the idea of love. Yes. E, your argument is that because 'love' is an idea, that that makes 'love' somehow less real than this other 'Love'. Its actually the other way round. It is 'Love' that has absolutely no basis in reality. It doesn't exist. Its just a pointer away from conditioned ideas ABOUT the 'love' that we all have a reference for. Because you have got it the wrong way round, you ignore the 'love' that does exist and that we all have a reference for. Ignoring actual love for a non-existent Love is a dodgy game to play. You're on a roll now. ;D I've just been pointing away from those conditioned ideas ABOUT love. Among those ideas is that we all know what it is to act loving and that we can therefore choose it and practice it and ask Mr Love what he would do and such. As I've said many times, Love moves in your absence. You don't want to be absent. You want to make love happen and bludgeon others until they make love happen too. |
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Post by enigma on Jan 26, 2013 15:47:14 GMT -5
It doesn't. It gives you energy. Sharp as a tack, Arish. If it drains your energy to be here ( enigma) - and you're here a considerable (I'm pondering the almost 16,000 posts - I wonder what the average is for the rest of the active members hmm) amount of time - Impossible to keep from asking who's draining whom? I just told you who's draining whom. What does the number of posts have to do with it? |
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Post by andrew on Jan 26, 2013 15:50:28 GMT -5
Yes. E, your argument is that because 'love' is an idea, that that makes 'love' somehow less real than this other 'Love'. Its actually the other way round. It is 'Love' that has absolutely no basis in reality. It doesn't exist. Its just a pointer away from conditioned ideas ABOUT the 'love' that we all have a reference for. Because you have got it the wrong way round, you ignore the 'love' that does exist and that we all have a reference for. Ignoring actual love for a non-existent Love is a dodgy game to play. You're on a roll now. ;D I've just been pointing away from those conditioned ideas ABOUT love. Among those ideas is that we all know what it is to act loving and that we can therefore choose it and practice it and ask Mr Love what he would do and such. As I've said many times, Love moves in your absence. You don't want to be absent. You want to make love happen and bludgeon others until they make love happen too. No you haven't just been pointing away from conditioned ideas about love, you have said that the love that we all have a reference for is just conceptual and is therefore problematic. Its not. What is far more problematic is the way that you have turned a pointer away from conditioned ideas into something more than just a pointer. This is another massive clue that your ego is still alive and kicking (even though you have 'seen through' it). I don't have an issue with the pointer 'love moves in our absence'. However, for as ego still plays a role in our behaviour, I think it is useful and appropriate to pay attention to 'love', especially as it is not a given that 'love' is completely ignored even when there is no intermediary. Its like I said on the other thread, there is a balance between Being and Becoming. Even those that experience Being and Becoming as not separate do not necessarily stop choosing love, or stop deliberately extending love. The reason that you don't do it is because you consider it to be delusionary, and in the context of delusion, this is a delusion! |
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Post by silver on Jan 26, 2013 15:51:29 GMT -5
Another example of creative story telling. One finds what one is looking for. Productive conversation requires sincerity. What's happening for the most part over here is ego work. I don't have a problem with that, I just don't want to do it all the time. "One finds what one is looking for". Do you want to say that Tzu finds confrontation on this forum because he is looking for confrontation? Who would agree with you? Your giraffe's neck has grown to the moon. What sincerity are you talking about? Yes, your ego work does create the most part of conflicts here. Yes, you don't have a problem with that because this is what you need. Interesting. Interesting how you demand peeps show you the quote but you yourself keep things nice and cloudy by combining your unique brand of chiding and ridiculing with the omission of any specific quote(s) that you seem to be referring to. Seems pretty slippery to me... |
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Post by silver on Jan 26, 2013 15:52:49 GMT -5
Sharp as a tack, Arish. If it drains your energy to be here ( enigma) - and you're here a considerable (I'm pondering the almost 16,000 posts - I wonder what the average is for the rest of the active members hmm) amount of time - Impossible to keep from asking who's draining whom? I just told you who's draining whom. What does the number of posts have to do with it? You said being here drains your energy, didn't you? That's what I was referring to, and you just say this - you didn't name any names in that post when you said that. |
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Post by enigma on Jan 26, 2013 15:55:25 GMT -5
You have no interest in Hetero's plagiarism or lying, but only in discrediting Reefs, so your particular story ignores the 'exploring' and looks for ways to slam Reefs. H did precisely the same thing, so by your indifference you are supporting him. . It's more than clear that you're a coward who cannot find his way out of his cowardly labyrinth, so you have reefs do your bidding for you, too, while you figure out how to extricate yourself from the cowardliness so you can pretend to be enlightened for another 24 hours. It's always been this way. Probably not going to change, either. This is the sort of post that could lead to a new incarnation. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2013 16:04:36 GMT -5
It's more than clear that you're a coward who cannot find his way out of his cowardly labyrinth, so you have reefs do your bidding for you, too, while you figure out how to extricate yourself from the cowardliness so you can pretend to be enlightened for another 24 hours. It's always been this way. Probably not going to change, either. This is the sort of post that could lead to a new incarnation. Nah. I wouldn't have started the thread were that the case. You haven't even taken responsibility for your expression within the post in question. I felt pain when I read your exchange about arisha. You feel nothing. Fear has rendered your sensitivity useless. But you know what? I'll bet you could enliven it once again with an apology. And then we can get on with the business of love and community. But that's your choice. |
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Post by enigma on Jan 26, 2013 16:10:52 GMT -5
Yes, which is why those expressions of love are a hint that choosing love is delusional, unnecessary, misconceived. Except it can be a very useful and appropriate thing to do if ego is still present (and maybe even when it isn't). Maybe it is and maybe it isn't. I'd say the moment mind turns love into a weapon to judge and condescend to others, it's time to see through that game. Yes, more playing with the map instead of walking the territory. Staring at the finger instead of looking for the moon. I'm pretty sure most here are clear about that. Well, that's not really what I'm saying. I don't have a problem with the imaginary person trying to make the right choices. It makes sense just fine. What I'm saying is that Love is impersonal, and so whatever the person does, he can only stand in the way of Love. Sure, it's "quite clear" to you that I have ego running rampant, and it's "clear" to H that I have no courage, and it's 'clear; to Tzu that I'm not interested in productive conversation and it's 'clear' to Figs that there are all sorts of guidelines on the new forum and it's clear to Arisha that Tzu is the most peaceful person on the forum, etc, etc. |
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Post by enigma on Jan 26, 2013 16:16:42 GMT -5
All sorts of guidelines?? What it says is the only requirement is sincerity. Where did you find all sorts of guidelines? In your imagination? "Sincerity" is so thoroughly defined that there's a whole thread dedicated to it. After reading through, it seems as though one's level of sincerity will be deemed absent if there is : a need to be right, need to control, need to entertain or be entertained, need to socialize, need to be liked, need to acquire knowledge or need to look enlightened, (all of course are in the eye of the beholder). Reefs very strongly expressed his dissatisfaction with this forum and you yourself regularly express your frustration with the nonsense and drama and such. Even in what you say above, I get the sense that you favor the flavor of your own forum....even more reason why I am baffled that you are spending more time here than there. And don't get me wrong. I have no interest in getting you to leave. I'm pretty clear on the fact that in order to have forum discussion, divergence of opinion must be, otherwise we just reiterate what the other has said and pat him on the back and that doesn't go too far in terms of actual discussion. In all fairness, while you do seem to bellyache a bit now and again about 'the nonsense' here, it really was Reefs who seemed to want to give this place a complete overhaul so it would better suit his idea of perfect forum experience. And now it would seem he has his perfect forum vision come into manifestation, and yet, here he remains...? I'm Enigma. Reefs is a different person. |
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Post by enigma on Jan 26, 2013 16:19:14 GMT -5
It drains my energy to be here. How could it not? Climbing up steep hill after steep hill, every single day because of some sense of duty to some imagined 'higher purpose' will result in that. I find it so interesting that this is your experience, and yet you spend Soooo much time here. My time here feels like a lovely downhill glide....it relaxes me and even energizes me because I enjoy it. The ego is energized by such conversations. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2013 16:20:31 GMT -5
Sharp as a tack, Arish. If it drains your energy to be here ( enigma) - and you're here a considerable (I'm pondering the almost 16,000 posts - I wonder what the average is for the rest of the active members hmm) amount of time - Impossible to keep from asking who's draining whom? I just told you who's draining whom. What does the number of posts have to do with it? Your number of posts is relevant in the same way that the number of times one bangs his head against the wall is relevant to a guy who's complaining that his head hurts. |
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