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Post by enigma on Jan 26, 2013 15:10:46 GMT -5
Another example of creative story telling. One finds what one is looking for. Productive conversation requires sincerity. What's happening for the most part over here is ego work. I don't have a problem with that, I just don't want to do it all the time. "One finds what one is looking for". Do you want to say that Tzu finds confrontation on this forum because he is looking for confrontation? Indeed I do! There is a mind split of which Tzu is not aware. He sees himself as open, sincere and wanting a mature discussion, but the warrior cannot stop waving his sword. A story of justification (I give what I get) and projection (others are trying to enforce their beliefs through violence) is developed in order to reconcile these parts. |
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Post by arisha on Jan 26, 2013 15:12:04 GMT -5
Yes, conflict and confrontation give them energy which they lack. So, it is obvious that such people need help, and more attention. They are too weak spiritually. It drains my energy to be here. How could it not? It doesn't. It gives you energy. |
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Post by arisha on Jan 26, 2013 15:15:26 GMT -5
"One finds what one is looking for". Do you want to say that Tzu finds confrontation on this forum because he is looking for confrontation? Indeed I do! There is a mind split of which Tzu is not aware. He sees himself as open, sincere and wanting a mature discussion, but the warrior cannot stop waving his sword. A story of justification (I give what I get) and projection (others are trying to enforce their beliefs through violence) is developed in order to reconcile these parts. Tzu is one of the most peaceful members of this forum! OMG. You happen to be completely delusioned, even more delusioned than what can be seen from the first sight. |
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Post by enigma on Jan 26, 2013 15:15:40 GMT -5
All sorts of guidelines?? What it says is the only requirement is sincerity. Where did you find all sorts of guidelines? In your imagination? Nobody ever said they want to get away from this forum and stay on their own side of the fence. However, the quality of 'conversation' is much better, and that's what we were looking for. I don't want to abandon this forum, and I don't want it to suffer because of the other forum, but it's pretty clear they're going be quite different. I don't think this forum could or would suffer as a result of the other forum. Even if no-one ever posted here again, I don't think I would say that this forum is suffering. It remains to be seen, but what I think I'm seeing is more negativity here. If no-one ever posted here again, I'm pretty sure the forum would suffer. Hehe. Or do you mean if none of your enemies posted here again? |
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Post by andrew on Jan 26, 2013 15:16:18 GMT -5
The one who thinks love is sex, or compromise, or getting what they want, obviously doesn't know the same love that others know. To say everyone knows the same love is your way of convincing yourself that you know, and that others can't know something you don't. If you think Love is yours to give, then you don't know Love. Sex is sex, compromise is compromise, mother's love is mother's love, - who would say these are all the same?  But there is 'love' - which can join sex, which is a part of mother's love, or a heroic person's love, - and which origin is the idea of love. Yes. E, your argument is that because 'love' is an idea, that that makes 'love' somehow less real than this other 'Love'. Its actually the other way round. It is 'Love' that has absolutely no basis in reality. It doesn't exist. Its just a pointer away from conditioned ideas ABOUT the 'love' that we all have a reference for. Because you have got it the wrong way round, you ignore the 'love' that does exist and that we all have a reference for. Ignoring actual love for a non-existent Love is a dodgy game to play. |
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Post by silver on Jan 26, 2013 15:17:25 GMT -5
It drains my energy to be here. How could it not? It doesn't. It gives you energy. Sharp as a tack, Arish. If it drains your energy to be here ( enigma) - and you're here a considerable (I'm pondering the almost 16,000 posts - I wonder what the average is for the rest of the active members hmm) amount of time - Impossible to keep from asking who's draining whom? |
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Post by andrew on Jan 26, 2013 15:20:50 GMT -5
I don't think this forum could or would suffer as a result of the other forum. Even if no-one ever posted here again, I don't think I would say that this forum is suffering. It remains to be seen, but what I think I'm seeing is more negativity here. If no-one ever posted here again, I'm pretty sure the forum would suffer. Hehe. Or do you mean if none of your enemies posted here again? No, I meant no-one. I like to hold you accountable for some stuff, but that's one thing I wouldn't hold you accountable for. People come and go, forums come and go. |
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Post by enigma on Jan 26, 2013 15:22:38 GMT -5
I haven't said anything at all about self monitoring. Your the one going on about that as if you know anything about how anybody is or isn't self monitoring. Practicing love doesn't seem to have anything to do with self monitoring. I suppose once you conclude that someone isn't acting loving, and doesn't change that behavior to align with your own ideas, you can then conclude that one is not noticing how unloving they are, and therefore must not be monitoring. The giraffes are stacked a few levels deep there and I don't have the patience to try to move them all out of the way. Reefs has spoken about the delusion of self monitoring and you speak of the delusion of choosing love or asking love what to do. I'm Enigma. Reefs is somebody else. |
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Post by andrew on Jan 26, 2013 15:26:16 GMT -5
Reefs has spoken about the delusion of self monitoring and you speak of the delusion of choosing love or asking love what to do. I'm Enigma. Reefs is somebody else. You mean....Reefnigma is actually two (I mean not-two) people? |
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Post by enigma on Jan 26, 2013 15:26:30 GMT -5
Okay. I took your comment to mean that the mother and hero are experiencing the same love. You're saying those two are experiencing the same love as everybody else. I don't know what peeps are subjectively experiencing, but I would say the mother and the hero are not trying to express love, be more loving, monitoring their love levels. I would say that in most cases, they are simply absent for their loving. The mother and the hero do not know why they do what they do. That's what makes it love. I would say that the mother is aware that she is loving, and if asked, the hero would say 'I acted from love, what else could I do?' What is absent in these cases is the deliberate extension/giving of love or choosing of love or choosing to be love. Yes, which is why those expressions of love are a hint that choosing love is delusional, unnecessary, misconceived. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2013 15:26:31 GMT -5
You have no interest in Hetero's plagiarism or lying, but only in discrediting Reefs, so your particular story ignores the 'exploring' and looks for ways to slam Reefs. H did precisely the same thing, so by your indifference you are supporting him. . It's more than clear that you're a coward who cannot find his way out of his cowardly labyrinth, so you have reefs do your bidding for you, too, while you figure out how to extricate yourself from the cowardliness so you can pretend to be enlightened for another 24 hours. It's always been this way. Probably not going to change, either. |
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Post by andrew on Jan 26, 2013 15:30:28 GMT -5
I would say that the mother is aware that she is loving, and if asked, the hero would say 'I acted from love, what else could I do?' What is absent in these cases is the deliberate extension/giving of love or choosing of love or choosing to be love. Yes, which is why those expressions of love are a hint that choosing love is delusional, unnecessary, misconceived. Except it can be a very useful and appropriate thing to do if ego is still present (and maybe even when it isn't). And if we are NOT doing that on the basis that we don't want to engage in delusional behaviour, then not only are we in delusion anyway, but we are not engaging with love at all, and there is no self-monitoring. Its a dodgy old game. I do understand what you are saying. In the context of there being 'no-one' the idea of choosing love, extending love or being love makes no sense. For a start though, very few on the planet experience a total absence of intermediary. And even in those rare cases, it is still entirely possible that they will deliberately engage with love. Quite clearly you guys still have ego playing out, so ruling out 'dualistic' behaviours on the basis that they are delusional really doesn't wash. In fact I would say the fact that you refuse to engage with 'dualistic' behaviours says more about your ego than anything else. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2013 15:32:26 GMT -5
All sorts of guidelines?? What it says is the only requirement is sincerity. Where did you find all sorts of guidelines? In your imagination? "Sincerity" is so thoroughly defined that there's a whole thread dedicated to it. After reading through, it seems as though one's level of sincerity will be deemed absent if there is : a need to be right, need to control, need to entertain or be entertained, need to socialize, need to be liked, need to acquire knowledge or need to look enlightened, (all of course are in the eye of the beholder). Reefs very strongly expressed his dissatisfaction with this forum and you yourself regularly express your frustration with the nonsense and drama and such. Even in what you say above, I get the sense that you favor the flavor of your own forum....even more reason why I am baffled that you are spending more time here than there. And don't get me wrong. I have no interest in getting you to leave. I'm pretty clear on the fact that in order to have forum discussion, divergence of opinion must be, otherwise we just reiterate what the other has said and pat him on the back and that doesn't go too far in terms of actual discussion. In all fairness, while you do seem to bellyache a bit now and again about 'the nonsense' here, it really was Reefs who seemed to want to give this place a complete overhaul so it would better suit his idea of perfect forum experience. And now it would seem he has his perfect forum vision come into manifestation, and yet, here he remains...? |
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Post by enigma on Jan 26, 2013 15:34:06 GMT -5
The one who thinks love is sex, or compromise, or getting what they want, obviously doesn't know the same love that others know. To say everyone knows the same love is your way of convincing yourself that you know, and that others can't know something you don't. If you think Love is yours to give, then you don't know Love. Sex is sex, compromise is compromise, mother's love is mother's love, - who would say these are all the same? Not the same. That was my point. |
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Post by enigma on Jan 26, 2013 15:35:23 GMT -5
The one who thinks love is sex, or compromise, or getting what they want, obviously doesn't know the same love that others know. To say everyone knows the same love is your way of convincing yourself that you know, and that others can't know something you don't. If you think Love is yours to give, then you don't know Love. But there is 'love' - which can join sex, which is a part of mother's love, or a heroic person's love, - and which origin is the idea of love. Love does not originate from the idea of love. |
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