Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2013 8:59:43 GMT -5
Well, how's that: You are all hopeless! 99.7% of you suck. Good luck with your flawed premises! That's OK for a theme, but please elaborate. lol well max, I guess its safe to assume we are not in the .03% ;D
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Post by enigma on Jan 12, 2013 13:04:36 GMT -5
Yeah, I think you're 'having a go at me'. Any idea why? Surely not because I invited a couple of friends from another forum. Ive been pretty distance from the forum lately, there's not much 'beef' here at the moment. I just happen to think there is some truth in the idea that there is a bit of a club on the forum and I think that Tzu has sensed that correctly. However, the word 'club' isn't quite correct, I could try and find other words but they probably wouldn't suffice either. On every forum there are peeps who generally see things the same way and are generally in agreement, and that happens here. There's nothing wrong with that until somebody starts calling it an exclusive club or a gang, and assigning various derogatory qualities and agendas. Q thought there was something vile going on, and Arisha is convinced that there's an NLP agenda afoot and others have seen a forum control agenda. Everybody who disagrees with what's said is hunting for a witch to burn, and burning a whole coven at once is more efficient than burning them one at a time.
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Post by silver on Jan 12, 2013 13:14:40 GMT -5
Ive been pretty distance from the forum lately, there's not much 'beef' here at the moment. I just happen to think there is some truth in the idea that there is a bit of a club on the forum and I think that Tzu has sensed that correctly. However, the word 'club' isn't quite correct, I could try and find other words but they probably wouldn't suffice either. On every forum there are peeps who generally see things the same way and are generally in agreement, and that happens here. There's nothing wrong with that until somebody starts calling it an exclusive club or a gang, and assigning various derogatory qualities and agendas. Q thought there was something vile going on, and Arisha is convinced that there's an NLP agenda afoot and others have seen a forum control agenda. Everybody who disagrees with what's said is hunting for a witch to burn, and burning a whole coven at once is more efficient than burning them one at a time. We know this is fun, imaginative musings and uh thank god, it's really not happening or likely to.......and it's easy to see the same sort of figurative funn stuff happening when the resident 'club' or rezzing group circle the wagons to fend off the injun(s). Top - you taught me this, that it's just words on a page - no conflagration, no one really spitting and yelling into one's face or brutal beat-downs. Hence, no need for fear and apprehension or anger.
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Post by enigma on Jan 12, 2013 13:27:42 GMT -5
Well, if the forum focus is spirituality which could be just anything from farting to meditating or eating vegan to shaving your head, then certain folks who only want to talk about non-duality certainly seem like a too cool for school club to those who rather talk about movies and horse stances or dimensions and levels of consciousness. However, that doesn't mean that those with a more narrow focus really feel like club members. LOA will bring them together naturally. LOA does not have an agenda. I don't have an issue with the idea of talking about LOA as a way of explaining the existence of the club. I think that when you returned to the forum after your absence you desired to be free from the dynamic that was initially created, and you challenged Enigma on your return. Then 'Bad Poetry happened'. As a stats person, it might be interesting for you to look at how often you have challenged Enigma SINCE that thread, which was quite a while ago now. With regard to 'horse stances', Tat clearly had a very strong non-dual focus. The club made it very hard for him to be here though as he challenged E. Yes, Tath had a strong nondual focus, which was appreciated by many, including me. Many also challenged the boundaries of his understanding, including me. When he struggled with those challenges and thought he could use the rest of the forum to show me how wrong I was, many continued to question what he imagined he was seeing. They weren't rallying to my defense, just offering their own perspectives. His primary objective here was to form a 'Tath Club' with himself as the enlightened teacher. He made no secret of that. When he ran out of ways to form his following, he detonated and left. You can turn him into a victim if that serves your purpose, but that's not what happened.
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Post by enigma on Jan 12, 2013 13:36:25 GMT -5
I don't have an issue with the idea of talking about LOA as a way of explaining the existence of the club. I think that when you returned to the forum after your absence you desired to be free from the dynamic that was initially created, and you challenged Enigma on your return. Then 'Bad Poetry happened'. As a stats person, it might be interesting for you to look at how often you have challenged Enigma SINCE that thread, which was quite a while ago now. With regard to 'horse stances', Tat clearly had a very strong non-dual focus. The club made it very hard for him to be here though as he challenged E. Why should I challenge Enigma when I agree with his take on non-duality? We don't even differ in our general take on LOA. The only difference is that I've given LOA much more thought than he ever did or ever is willing to do. So I can go into much more specifics than he. But since I see talking LOA here as a distraction, I don't see the point in bringing it up anymore which means the focus is now fully on non-duality. Are you looking for trouble, Andrew? It looks like he's trying to form a gang with Tzu to do battle with the 'big boys club' that he imagines. When/if Arisha returns, she'll be invited to the gang too. I couldn't figure out where he's going with the challenging. It seems like if we all agree all the time then we're a club, and if we disagree just sometimes, then it proves we're a club somehow cuz we should be disagreeing at regular intervals or sumthin.
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Post by andrew on Jan 12, 2013 13:36:55 GMT -5
Ive been pretty distance from the forum lately, there's not much 'beef' here at the moment. I just happen to think there is some truth in the idea that there is a bit of a club on the forum and I think that Tzu has sensed that correctly. However, the word 'club' isn't quite correct, I could try and find other words but they probably wouldn't suffice either. On every forum there are peeps who generally see things the same way and are generally in agreement, and that happens here. There's nothing wrong with that until somebody starts calling it an exclusive club or a gang, and assigning various derogatory qualities and agendas. Q thought there was something vile going on, and Arisha is convinced that there's an NLP agenda afoot and others have seen a forum control agenda. Everybody who disagrees with what's said is hunting for a witch to burn, and burning a whole coven at once is more efficient than burning them one at a time. Im not suggesting something evil or vile or something planned even. IMO there is a bit of a club here though, and it was formed through the way things unfolded at that time.
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Post by andrew on Jan 12, 2013 13:43:05 GMT -5
I don't have an issue with the idea of talking about LOA as a way of explaining the existence of the club. I think that when you returned to the forum after your absence you desired to be free from the dynamic that was initially created, and you challenged Enigma on your return. Then 'Bad Poetry happened'. As a stats person, it might be interesting for you to look at how often you have challenged Enigma SINCE that thread, which was quite a while ago now. With regard to 'horse stances', Tat clearly had a very strong non-dual focus. The club made it very hard for him to be here though as he challenged E. Yes, Tath had a strong nondual focus, which was appreciated by many, including me. Many also challenged the boundaries of his understanding, including me. When he struggled with those challenges and thought he could use the rest of the forum to show me how wrong I was, many continued to question what he imagined he was seeing. They weren't rallying to my defense, just offering their own perspectives. His primary objective here was to form a 'Tath Club' with himself as the enlightened teacher. He made no secret of that. When he ran out of ways to form his following, he detonated and left. You can turn him into a victim if that serves your purpose, but that's not what happened. Well, you see it differently to me and that's okay. There may have been a degree of vanity there or something like that, but I think his understandings were very sound, and I think his perception of you at the time was pretty spot on. And lets be clear, its not like me and Tat had an allegiance, we had 'strong words' more than once. I also don't think he 'detonated' as such.
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Post by enigma on Jan 12, 2013 13:43:11 GMT -5
Why should I challenge Enigma when I agree with his take on non-duality? We don't even differ in our general take on LOA. The only difference is that I've given LOA much more thought than he ever did or ever is willing to do. So I can go into much more specifics than he. But since I see talking LOA here as a distraction, I don't see the point in bringing it up anymore which means the focus is now fully on non-duality. Are you looking for trouble, Andrew? I wouldn't say I am particularly looking for trouble, no, I am just talking a dynamic that I see. I think there are some significant differences in yours and E's position, and I think challenging Enigma when you returned reflected these differences and your desire to be free from the dynamic. Then Bad Poetry happened and the club became relevant again. Not deliberately though, I don't think any of this is planned. Allegiances are a given on a forum, and if it was just an allegiance I wouldn't be talking, but I think this goes beyond allegiances, and I think the creation of the dynamic can be seen on the link I provided. Basically, most peeps see what they want to see, and there are a few here besides you who do that on a consistent basis, which is one of the reasons I talk about imagination and giraffes so much.
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Post by enigma on Jan 12, 2013 13:51:05 GMT -5
Silence and Reefs? Silence seldom posts, so you're suggesting the club consists of Reefs and myself? In that case, your Figandrew club was the same size. I think you're looking for somebody to blame for the fact that you don't get as much agreement here as you would like. I have a simpler explanation. It seems that the idea of there being a club is a product of whether or not peeps are in agreement with each other, an appearance of nearness in mindset. If we look across the field in headspace, from one person's vantage point looking in the easterly direction X,Y, and Z seem to all be clustered together in a "grouping". Move 1000 cliques closer and X appears in the NE, Z is in the SE and Y is due East. Move to the center of the "group" in headspace then X is NW, Z is due South and Y is Easterly and there is no grouping at all. From outside the Milky Way, the whole galaxy appears to be some kind of Big Boys Club gang that likely has an agenda of universal domination.
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Post by andrew on Jan 12, 2013 13:56:14 GMT -5
Why should I challenge Enigma when I agree with his take on non-duality? We don't even differ in our general take on LOA. The only difference is that I've given LOA much more thought than he ever did or ever is willing to do. So I can go into much more specifics than he. But since I see talking LOA here as a distraction, I don't see the point in bringing it up anymore which means the focus is now fully on non-duality. Are you looking for trouble, Andrew? It looks like he's trying to form a gang with Tzu to do battle with the 'big boys club' that he imagines. When/if Arisha returns, she'll be invited to the gang too. I couldn't figure out where he's going with the challenging. It seems like if we all agree all the time then we're a club, and if we disagree just sometimes, then it proves we're a club somehow cuz we should be disagreeing at regular intervals or sumthin. Its fair to say that I form allegiances with people, but forming a club here would not happen for me. Part of being in the club is to challenge each other to some slight extent, though I don't recall you and Silence ever questioning each other, or Reefs and Silence ever questioning each other. I also don't recall you challenging Reefs but I saw Reefs challenge you pretty strongly when he returned to the forum....like I said, I felt he wanted to be free from the dynamic and that makes sense given what was happening when he left the forum.
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Post by enigma on Jan 12, 2013 13:57:07 GMT -5
I would really take it to the next level and talk more about some subtleties that usually get overlooked. So, if you wanna do it, it will be some kind of spiritual elitist thingy, hehe. OK, so pick a suitable domain name by finding one that isn't already taken using the link below (note: doesn't have to be .com), making sure that it doesn't cost a lot of money! 10-20 USD is an acceptable price. www.godaddy.com/?ci=72737Once you decide on the domain I can buy it and some hosting and install the forum software (I already selected it) and then you can decide how you want it to look, what the rules are, who the moderators will be (if not you) etc etc. It's not complicated to get something basic up and running so you can start directing people there, and then we just refine it as we go along according to your wishes and emergent behavior. Or I could attach a free forum to my website, which currently gets 2-3000 visits/month. It would be like one Big Boys Club. ;D
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Post by andrew on Jan 12, 2013 13:57:43 GMT -5
I wouldn't say I am particularly looking for trouble, no, I am just talking a dynamic that I see. I think there are some significant differences in yours and E's position, and I think challenging Enigma when you returned reflected these differences and your desire to be free from the dynamic. Then Bad Poetry happened and the club became relevant again. Not deliberately though, I don't think any of this is planned. Allegiances are a given on a forum, and if it was just an allegiance I wouldn't be talking, but I think this goes beyond allegiances, and I think the creation of the dynamic can be seen on the link I provided. Basically, most peeps see what they want to see, and there are a few here besides you who do that on a consistent basis, which is one of the reasons I talk about imagination and giraffes so much. You denying that a club was formed could be delusion on your part. If a club was formed with you as a central member, I'm pretty sure you would want to see something different.
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Post by enigma on Jan 12, 2013 14:11:41 GMT -5
On every forum there are peeps who generally see things the same way and are generally in agreement, and that happens here. There's nothing wrong with that until somebody starts calling it an exclusive club or a gang, and assigning various derogatory qualities and agendas. Q thought there was something vile going on, and Arisha is convinced that there's an NLP agenda afoot and others have seen a forum control agenda. Everybody who disagrees with what's said is hunting for a witch to burn, and burning a whole coven at once is more efficient than burning them one at a time. Im not suggesting something evil or vile or something planned even. IMO there is a bit of a club here though, and it was formed through the way things unfolded at that time. I know what you're saying. You've said it several times. I'm saying it's just your version of the witch.
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Post by enigma on Jan 12, 2013 14:16:45 GMT -5
Yes, Tath had a strong nondual focus, which was appreciated by many, including me. Many also challenged the boundaries of his understanding, including me. When he struggled with those challenges and thought he could use the rest of the forum to show me how wrong I was, many continued to question what he imagined he was seeing. They weren't rallying to my defense, just offering their own perspectives. His primary objective here was to form a 'Tath Club' with himself as the enlightened teacher. He made no secret of that. When he ran out of ways to form his following, he detonated and left. You can turn him into a victim if that serves your purpose, but that's not what happened. Well, you see it differently to me and that's okay. There may have been a degree of vanity there or something like that, but I think his understandings were very sound, and I think his perception of you at the time was pretty spot on. And lets be clear, its not like me and Tat had an allegiance, we had 'strong words' more than once. I also don't think he 'detonated' as such. He thought I was hurting seekers with my lies and had to be beaten down. He threatened to sue some of the members. He also splattered himself all over the forum and it took days for ZD and Shawn to clean up the mess.
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Post by andrew on Jan 12, 2013 14:16:45 GMT -5
Im not suggesting something evil or vile or something planned even. IMO there is a bit of a club here though, and it was formed through the way things unfolded at that time. I know what you're saying. You've said it several times. I'm saying it's just your version of the witch. Could be. Or could be that there was some truth to Tzu sensing a bit of a club here.
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