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Post by enigma on Jan 12, 2013 3:54:35 GMT -5
Silence and Reefs? Silence seldom posts, so you're suggesting the club consists of Reefs and myself? In that case, your Figandrew club was the same size. I think you're looking for somebody to blame for the fact that you don't get as much agreement here as you would like. I have a simpler explanation. I would put Portto as a quieter member of the club too coz with you and P, its kind of a case of 'buy one get one free'. Silence has posted a fair bit since that initial thread. You can think that, but I wasn't getting agreement even before they came. I'm not saying the club was deliberate but the way that you worded that O.P, and the way that they came to the forum, created a unique dynamic. If you read the first page of comments after the O.P you will see that an interesting divide was created immediately. I guess you probably think that I am having a go at you, but as I have said, I don't think any of it was planned as such, its just the way it has worked out, Yeah, I think you're 'having a go at me'. Any idea why? Surely not because I invited a couple of friends from another forum.
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Post by andrew on Jan 12, 2013 3:58:50 GMT -5
I would put Portto as a quieter member of the club too coz with you and P, its kind of a case of 'buy one get one free'. Silence has posted a fair bit since that initial thread. You can think that, but I wasn't getting agreement even before they came. I'm not saying the club was deliberate but the way that you worded that O.P, and the way that they came to the forum, created a unique dynamic. If you read the first page of comments after the O.P you will see that an interesting divide was created immediately. I guess you probably think that I am having a go at you, but as I have said, I don't think any of it was planned as such, its just the way it has worked out, Yeah, I think you're 'having a go at me'. Any idea why? Surely not because I invited a couple of friends from another forum. Ive been pretty distance from the forum lately, there's not much 'beef' here at the moment. I just happen to think there is some truth in the idea that there is a bit of a club on the forum and I think that Tzu has sensed that correctly. However, the word 'club' isn't quite correct, I could try and find other words but they probably wouldn't suffice either.
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Post by Reefs on Jan 12, 2013 4:06:41 GMT -5
Reefs, if you want your own forum with a specific manifesto, subforums and rules, hand-picked moderators etc then you could easily start your own. Hell, I'd even help select the forum software based on your requirements, set it up, support it technically and even pay for hosting. Just so we could see where it would go. I extend the same offer to ZD, enigma, Topo and the rest of 'the club' - you could consider joining forces on it. Starting a forum is technically really easy. Of course the harder part is reeling in the traffic, but you are probably well known enough to attract a few folks and then it's word of mouth. I'm very much an appreciator of each of your styles and content, and would be interested to see you all 'in your element' as it were - getting down to it with sincere seekers whose dispositions are well suited towards your styles, not having to repeat yourselves all the time and battling with posters who also consider themselves teachers. That being said, I do somehow manage to eke educational value out of all of the battles that go on here (and so thanks to both sides of the fence for that!). Cheers. Nice. Sounds very sincere. I would really take it to the next level and talk more about some subtleties that usually get overlooked. But that's not working here with that kind of sloppy forum vision. And I don't think we would have to worry about traffic. This wouldn't be a high traffic forum anyway. I usually see LOA working it's magic here. Haven't you noticed that just after Peter became mod Silver arrived here? Couldn't have happened earlier. A clear vision for the forum is enough, then you don't even need rules. The vision will attract peeps that are a match to it. Like it is said in the Daodejing (paraphrasing): When the top guy is in alignment with the Dao, everything else is in order. No one even knows the top guy, no one has ever seen him. Folks only know that he exists. And his influence is mighty. When the top guy loses his alignment with the Dao, his influence isn't strong anymore, moral codes will be established as guidance and folks will live in confusion. When the top guy is even less in alignment with the Dao, moral codes will be replaced with laws and regulation and folks will live in conflict with each other. When the top guy loses sight of the Dao altogether, laws will be replaced with punishments and folks will live in fear. So, if you wanna do it, it will be some kind of spiritual elitist thingy, hehe.
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Post by Reefs on Jan 12, 2013 4:12:18 GMT -5
Yeah, I think you're 'having a go at me'. Any idea why? Surely not because I invited a couple of friends from another forum. Ive been pretty distance from the forum lately, there's not much 'beef' here at the moment. I just happen to think there is some truth in the idea that there is a bit of a club on the forum and I think that Tzu has sensed that correctly. However, the word 'club' isn't quite correct, I could try and find other words but they probably wouldn't suffice either. Well, if the forum focus is spirituality which could be just anything from farting to meditating or eating vegan to shaving your head, then certain folks who only want to talk about non-duality certainly seem like a too cool for school club to those who rather talk about movies and horse stances or dimensions and levels of consciousness. However, that doesn't mean that those with a more narrow focus really feel like club members. LOA will bring them together naturally. LOA does not have an agenda.
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Post by andrew on Jan 12, 2013 4:18:28 GMT -5
Ive been pretty distance from the forum lately, there's not much 'beef' here at the moment. I just happen to think there is some truth in the idea that there is a bit of a club on the forum and I think that Tzu has sensed that correctly. However, the word 'club' isn't quite correct, I could try and find other words but they probably wouldn't suffice either. Well, if the forum focus is spirituality which could be just anything from farting to meditating or eating vegan to shaving your head, then certain folks who only want to talk about non-duality certainly seem like a too cool for school club to those who rather talk about movies and horse stances or dimensions and levels of consciousness. However, that doesn't mean that those with a more narrow focus really feel like club members. LOA will bring them together naturally. LOA does not have an agenda. I don't have an issue with the idea of talking about LOA as a way of explaining the existence of the club. I think that when you returned to the forum after your absence you desired to be free from the dynamic that was initially created, and you challenged Enigma on your return. Then 'Bad Poetry happened'. As a stats person, it might be interesting for you to look at how often you have challenged Enigma SINCE that thread, which was quite a while ago now. With regard to 'horse stances', Tat clearly had a very strong non-dual focus. The club made it very hard for him to be here though as he challenged E.
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Post by Reefs on Jan 12, 2013 4:35:23 GMT -5
Well, if the forum focus is spirituality which could be just anything from farting to meditating or eating vegan to shaving your head, then certain folks who only want to talk about non-duality certainly seem like a too cool for school club to those who rather talk about movies and horse stances or dimensions and levels of consciousness. However, that doesn't mean that those with a more narrow focus really feel like club members. LOA will bring them together naturally. LOA does not have an agenda. I don't have an issue with the idea of talking about LOA as a way of explaining the existence of the club. I think that when you returned to the forum after your absence you desired to be free from the dynamic that was initially created, and you challenged Enigma on your return. Then 'Bad Poetry happened'. As a stats person, it might be interesting for you to look at how often you have challenged Enigma SINCE that thread, which was quite a while ago now. With regard to 'horse stances', Tat clearly had a very strong non-dual focus. The club made it very hard for him to be here though as he challenged E. Why should I challenge Enigma when I agree with his take on non-duality? We don't even differ in our general take on LOA. The only difference is that I've given LOA much more thought than he ever did or ever is willing to do. So I can go into much more specifics than he. But since I see talking LOA here as a distraction, I don't see the point in bringing it up anymore which means the focus is now fully on non-duality. Are you looking for trouble, Andrew?
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Post by andrew on Jan 12, 2013 4:59:14 GMT -5
I don't have an issue with the idea of talking about LOA as a way of explaining the existence of the club. I think that when you returned to the forum after your absence you desired to be free from the dynamic that was initially created, and you challenged Enigma on your return. Then 'Bad Poetry happened'. As a stats person, it might be interesting for you to look at how often you have challenged Enigma SINCE that thread, which was quite a while ago now. With regard to 'horse stances', Tat clearly had a very strong non-dual focus. The club made it very hard for him to be here though as he challenged E. Why should I challenge Enigma when I agree with his take on non-duality? We don't even differ in our general take on LOA. The only difference is that I've given LOA much more thought than he ever did or ever is willing to do. So I can go into much more specifics than he. But since I see talking LOA here as a distraction, I don't see the point in bringing it up anymore which means the focus is now fully on non-duality. Are you looking for trouble, Andrew? I wouldn't say I am particularly looking for trouble, no, I am just talking a dynamic that I see. I think there are some significant differences in yours and E's position, and I think challenging Enigma when you returned reflected these differences and your desire to be free from the dynamic. Then Bad Poetry happened and the club became relevant again. Not deliberately though, I don't think any of this is planned. Allegiances are a given on a forum, and if it was just an allegiance I wouldn't be talking, but I think this goes beyond allegiances, and I think the creation of the dynamic can be seen on the link I provided.
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Post by Reefs on Jan 12, 2013 5:13:39 GMT -5
Why should I challenge Enigma when I agree with his take on non-duality? We don't even differ in our general take on LOA. The only difference is that I've given LOA much more thought than he ever did or ever is willing to do. So I can go into much more specifics than he. But since I see talking LOA here as a distraction, I don't see the point in bringing it up anymore which means the focus is now fully on non-duality. Are you looking for trouble, Andrew? I wouldn't say I am particularly looking for trouble, no. I think there are some significant differences in yours and E's position, and I think challenging Enigma when you returned reflected these differences and your desire to be free from the dynamic. Then Bad Poetry happened and the security of the club became relevant again. Allegiances are a given on a forum, and if it was just an allegiance I wouldn't be talking, but I think this goes beyond allegiances, and I think the creation of the dynamic can be seen on the link I provided. 'Not in particular', eh? You must be missing Figgy a lot. When everyone here saw you as kooky she was the only one who believed in you and applauded your contributions. Looks to me you are looking for a club to belong but currently can't find one like Tzu. So you go on a rampage against (perceived) clubs. Similar to a guy who got ditched by his girlfriend and then becomes a women hater.
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Post by andrew on Jan 12, 2013 5:29:36 GMT -5
I wouldn't say I am particularly looking for trouble, no. I think there are some significant differences in yours and E's position, and I think challenging Enigma when you returned reflected these differences and your desire to be free from the dynamic. Then Bad Poetry happened and the security of the club became relevant again. Allegiances are a given on a forum, and if it was just an allegiance I wouldn't be talking, but I think this goes beyond allegiances, and I think the creation of the dynamic can be seen on the link I provided. 'Not in particular', eh? You must be missing Figgy a lot. When everyone here saw you as kooky she was the only one who believed in you and applauded your contributions. Looks to me you are looking for a club to belong but currently can't find one like Tzu. So you go on a rampage against (perceived) clubs. Similar to a guy who got ditched by his girlfriend and then becomes a women hater. That came across as quite defensive/aggressive. I appreciated Figgy being here, but to say that I miss her a lot is not true. I am not going as far as to say that anyone here desperately 'needs' a club, what I am saying is that the particular way in which things unfolded did create a club, and that club is still present on the forum today.
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Post by Reefs on Jan 12, 2013 5:47:50 GMT -5
'Not in particular', eh? You must be missing Figgy a lot. When everyone here saw you as kooky she was the only one who believed in you and applauded your contributions. Looks to me you are looking for a club to belong but currently can't find one like Tzu. So you go on a rampage against (perceived) clubs. Similar to a guy who got ditched by his girlfriend and then becomes a women hater. That came across as quite defensive/aggressive. I appreciated Figgy being here, but to say that I miss her a lot is not true. I am not going as far as to say that anyone here desperately 'needs' a club, what I am saying is that the particular way in which things unfolded did create a club, and that club is still present on the forum today. So, there's only one club and you ain't in it? Is that your no-minding non-point?
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Post by andrew on Jan 12, 2013 6:14:28 GMT -5
That came across as quite defensive/aggressive. I appreciated Figgy being here, but to say that I miss her a lot is not true. I am not going as far as to say that anyone here desperately 'needs' a club, what I am saying is that the particular way in which things unfolded did create a club, and that club is still present on the forum today. So, there's only one club and you ain't in it? Is that your no-minding non-point? I only see one dynamic which I would attribute the word 'club' to.
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Post by topology on Jan 12, 2013 7:18:10 GMT -5
I don't think it is overstated, but neither do I think you had a devious subversive plan. I know you invited Arisha. I'm not sure who you are suggesting has disowned you as a friend, but I am really only talking about the people you specifically spoke of in the O.P. Silence and Reefs? Silence seldom posts, so you're suggesting the club consists of Reefs and myself? In that case, your Figandrew club was the same size. I think you're looking for somebody to blame for the fact that you don't get as much agreement here as you would like. I have a simpler explanation. It seems that the idea of there being a club is a product of whether or not peeps are in agreement with each other, an appearance of nearness in mindset. If we look across the field in headspace, from one person's vantage point looking in the easterly direction X,Y, and Z seem to all be clustered together in a "grouping". Move 1000 cliques closer and X appears in the NE, Z is in the SE and Y is due East. Move to the center of the "group" in headspace then X is NW, Z is due South and Y is Easterly and there is no grouping at all.
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Post by james on Jan 12, 2013 7:40:46 GMT -5
I would really take it to the next level and talk more about some subtleties that usually get overlooked. So, if you wanna do it, it will be some kind of spiritual elitist thingy, hehe. OK, so pick a suitable domain name by finding one that isn't already taken using the link below (note: doesn't have to be .com), making sure that it doesn't cost a lot of money! 10-20 USD is an acceptable price. www.godaddy.com/?ci=72737Once you decide on the domain I can buy it and some hosting and install the forum software (I already selected it) and then you can decide how you want it to look, what the rules are, who the moderators will be (if not you) etc etc. It's not complicated to get something basic up and running so you can start directing people there, and then we just refine it as we go along according to your wishes and emergent behavior.
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Post by andrew on Jan 12, 2013 7:48:33 GMT -5
Silence and Reefs? Silence seldom posts, so you're suggesting the club consists of Reefs and myself? In that case, your Figandrew club was the same size. I think you're looking for somebody to blame for the fact that you don't get as much agreement here as you would like. I have a simpler explanation. It seems that the idea of there being a club is a product of whether or not peeps are in agreement with each other, an appearance of nearness in mindset. I interpret what you are talking about there as 'allegiance' rather than 'club'. A 'club' is a bit different, a bit more intense in its contractual nature. I don't think you are a member of the club, but you are kind of like a guest visitor sometimes because you and E have an allegiance (and Im not saying there is anything wrong with allegiance).
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2013 8:41:41 GMT -5
If you're going to bugger off, which I don't advocate, with an adios thread, please make it insightful and devastating. Not one of these quiet toodaloos. Well, how's that: You are all hopeless! 99.7% of you suck. Good luck with your flawed premises! That's OK for a theme, but please elaborate.
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