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Post by lightmystic on Jul 27, 2009 10:52:16 GMT -5
No problem. I'm not actually defending him. I really don't know if he's Enlightened or not.... Hi, Sorry for the slow response. Actually I confused him with someone else. Sorry for replying. Steve |
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A Suggested Definition
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Post by A Suggested Definition on Aug 6, 2009 19:20:49 GMT -5
Let me offer a possible definition for this thread. "Enlightenment, or awakening, is the deep AND CONTINUING realization that there is only One, and that separateness of any kind is an illusion." A deep but transient realization does not qualify under this definition even though it may involve a powerful experience. Let me explain. Zen uses the words "kensho experience" to refer to the sudden seeing into the nature of one's True Self. Many people have these kinds of mystical experiences. I had such an experience on the morning of March 5, 1984. It was so powerful and so mind-boggling that during the experience I could not even remember my own name. As a result of that experience, the whole orientation of my life changed completely. I felt exactly like Kabir, who said, "I saw the truth for fifteen minutes, and I became a servant for life." During my fifteen or twenty minute kensho experience I was connected to the universe in a different way than through the intellect, as if I had accidentally touched some sort of direct downlink to the Absolute/Infinite. After the experience ended, I remembered my name again, but I was never the same. I was like the guy who, in Blake's words, "having once tasted the mystic's joy becomes consumed in having it again." I won't bore you with the details, but after that kensho experience, I became a spiritual fanatic, and I worked like a dog to get that fantastic state of mind back. I tried everything! I went on silent retreats, I recited mantras, I meditated like crazy, I got fixated on samadhi, and much more. Over the next fifteen years, despite many ups and downs, my mind grew increasingly silent, I became a person of action rather than reflection, and I had many more deep unity-conscious experiences (though none as powerful and dramatic as that first kensho). All of my many existential questions were gradually resolved during those years, except one. I ended up with only one final burning question, "How can I find a way to remain in an enlightened or unity-conscious state of mind all the time?" Then, on August 17, 1999, while hiking up a mountain in Colorado, I had a strange and deeply emotional experience while looking out over the Front Range. I felt an deep thankfulness for the gift of life, for all of my experiences (both good and bad), for all of the people I had met, for the beauty and perfection of reality, and for much more. I sat down on a big rock, and my eyes filled with tears as my heart opened up and flowed out over the world. Afterwards, I felt so happy and so alive that it was like being a little kid again. Several hours later, I suddenly realized that my last question had been answered, and I was finally free (this was a pretty big deal because I had been seriously seeking the truth for thirty-five years!). It was like getting out of prison.
That day I realized that I was not who I had spent my life thinking I was. I realized that I was not a human being, not a man, not a scientist, not a husband, not a father, not a spiritual seeker, not any thing at all. I was no-thing and every-thing at the same time. I realized that I was WHAT IS--the whole blooming beautiful wonderful fabulous mysterious thing (that is not a thing at all). I realized that who I am is always in a unity-conscious state of mind, even when it feels divided. Best of all, the realization that occurred that day never ended. Today, if someone should ask me, "Who are you?" I would answer, "I am That which is asking the question. I am the very youness of you." Today, I live an ordinary life, but I know that every person I meet is myself, that every tree is myself, and that every car on the highway is myself. I am one-with the only One here, and I know that everyone else is equally one-with that One. We are all always looking at our Isness in all of Its radiant glory. This is why I think a good definition of awakening is both a deep AND continuing realization of Oneness combined with the absolute certainty that separateness does not exist in any sense. The only thing that I would add here, to prevent any misconceptions, is that my felt experience of Oneness is deeply sacred and full of reverence and humility. I know that I am one-with the One, but more like a connected speck of dust compared to the Vastness in its Totality. I am comfortable with Christ's statement, "I and my Father are One," but I would not be comfortable with a statement like, "I am The One." Maybe this is quibbling over language, but the awesomeness of the Whole is so far beyond comprehension that anyone who experiences the Whole in any direct way will automatically want to bow down before THAT!
As for Deepak, he strikes me as a wonderful teacher with a unifying message of love and kindness, but I have never heard him say anything that exhibits the kind of oneness-realization that I am writing about here. This issue reminds me of a funny conversation I had with my wife one time. We both know a very unusual and talented woman, and one day my wife said, "Our friend Jane Doe seems happy all the time. She loves her work, she makes tons of money, she is always positive and enthusiastic, she is married to the man of her dreams, and she doesn't seem to have any problems at all. Do you think that she is enlightened?" I laughed and said, "No." My wife said, "Why do you think that she's not enlightened?" I replied, "Because she thinks that she's Jane Doe." Cheers.
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Post by lightmystic on Aug 7, 2009 11:07:07 GMT -5
Nice to hear a take on it that has backed up in some way with direct experience and understanding. I definitely feel like the description of Jane Doe really hits the nail on the head. Thanks for your post.
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Post by jonmark222 on Aug 20, 2009 21:12:35 GMT -5
If anybody thinks that Deepak Chopra is not an awakened being, you can cancel my membership to this site immediately.
In my view, he is the most enlightened being on earth today.
Moderators, if this message causes a strong negative reaction amongst members of this site, please cancel my membership at once. There simply is no point in me belonging to a group who does not recognize a clearly superior being - as enlightened as they come.
Thanks,
jonmark222 (aka 'Raphael'at Blogit.com)
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Post by lightmystic on Aug 21, 2009 10:50:35 GMT -5
I jonmark222, No problem stating your opinion here. Firstly, I would suggest that Enlightened beings are not superior. They just know that everyone is already superior. Just as I asked why people believed he was not Enlightened. I will ask why you feel like he is? How do you know? Again, I'm not saying one way or another, because I don't know for sure. But I would like to hear why you think. If anybody thinks that Deepak Chopra is not an awakened being, you can cancel my membership to this site immediately. In my view, he is the most enlightened being on earth today. Moderators, if this message causes a strong negative reaction amongst members of this site, please cancel my membership at once. There simply is no point in me belonging to a group who does not recognize a clearly superior being - as enlightened as they come. Thanks, jonmark222 (aka 'Raphael'at Blogit.com) |
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Post by souley on Aug 23, 2009 14:12:43 GMT -5
"A Suggested Definition", great stuff, thanks!
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Post by Peter on Aug 25, 2009 7:54:29 GMT -5
Hi Jonmark, welcome to the board. If anybody thinks that Deepak Chopra is not an awakened being, you can cancel my membership to this site immediately. That's an interesting variation on the 'my way or the highway' ultimatum, especially for an introductory posting. Personally I don't mind if anyone thinks Deepak Chopra is enlightened or is not enlightened. Arguing either way (especially without presenting any supporting evidence) seems like a poor use of time. If you find his work useful, that's great. I looked up 'Raphael' at Blogit.com and was interested by your poetry. Unfortunately the site wants to charge $9.95/month to read more than a few lines. Regards, Peter |
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Post by lehmann108 on Oct 23, 2009 8:34:23 GMT -5
I can only talk about my own experience of Deepak before and after he was famous. Deepak is a really great guy, but in my experience he is not awake. It cracked me up that someone stated that Maharishi was not enlightened. Please, the guys darshan could melt the sun. Maharishi was a supernova of Realization. Don't let someone's personality and cultural background that conflicts with your ego ideal of a "master" prevent you from seeing their value for either yourself or another. Arrogance comes in many packages!
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Post by lehmann108 on Oct 23, 2009 8:38:32 GMT -5
Dude, take a chill pill! If you believe Deepak is enlightened then that is your tea and toast. But, I must ask, is your certainty of his Realization a thought you have, an ego ideal, or is it something else? If anybody thinks that Deepak Chopra is not an awakened being, you can cancel my membership to this site immediately. |
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Post by present on Dec 16, 2009 23:42:07 GMT -5
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Post by warden on Feb 1, 2010 15:28:36 GMT -5
"being" is neither awake nor asleep. What awakens, through various exposures and exercises is the machine. That is, the body that has wrapped itself around the being.
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Post by shankaranandi on Apr 1, 2010 9:10:32 GMT -5
in our vedenta its clearly said time and again tht the awakened or enlightened person never will claim himself "enlightened soul" no great masters have ever claimed tht they are realized till they hav only showed the path . Its sadly , the people around him misunderstand tht Such an such a person is a awakened or realized soul.
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Post by Peter on Apr 1, 2010 9:20:08 GMT -5
Hi Shankaranandi, welcome to the board.
Are you "showing the path", then?
The Buddha proclaimed his own Enlightenment - what's your tradition's take on that?
Cheers,
Peter
PS Have been travelling for some time, hence absence. Currently living in Corsica!
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Post by karen on Apr 1, 2010 10:16:42 GMT -5
WB Peter!
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Post by Myself on Apr 2, 2010 8:13:47 GMT -5
PS Have been travelling for some time, hence absence. Currently living in Corsica! Let us know if you get to see Napoleon! |
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Hi,
