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Post by giannis on Jul 15, 2009 17:42:56 GMT -5
I sense what you say light mystic.
(or so I think).
There is indeed a strange "feeling", knowing, satisfaction, I don't know what, below everything. It's not subtle, it's all over, but it is just very light and... non "graspable".
Thank you for that pointer!
One more question please! May I?
Can I investigate if this "sub-feeling" is death free?
If somebody would shoot me in the head and everything (me included) disappeared in an instant, would this feeling still exist?
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Post by lightmystic on Jul 16, 2009 10:13:33 GMT -5
Hey giannis, You describe it very well. You can definitely explore into the nature of this feeling. Indeed, the more you do, the clearer and freer everything becomes. Ultimately it's discover your relationship to that, and beginning culture more and more of a relationship to it, that brings Awakening, understanding, and fulfillment. In terms of death, yes you are of course welcome to explore, but why do you want to avoid death? I'm not trying to say you shouldn't, but where is the desire to avoid death coming from? I sense what you say light mystic. (or so I think). There is indeed a strange "feeling", knowing, satisfaction, I don't know what, below everything. It's not subtle, it's all over, but it is just very light and... non "graspable". Thank you for that pointer! One more question please! May I? Can I investigate if this "sub-feeling" is death free?
If somebody would shoot me in the head and everything (me included) disappeared in an instant, would this feeling still exist? |
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Post by ascetiic on Jul 16, 2009 10:37:45 GMT -5
No, In past 2500 years after lord mahavir not a single person has achieved full enlightenment. Only 3 or 4 souls have reached the state near to that but still it is more than enough for this part of time cycle.
Ramkrishna Paramhansa
Raman Maharshi
Nisargdutt Maharaj
Dada Bhagwan
Vijay Kumar (Looks like)
Consider it as if: Full enlightenment is at 360 degrees in a circle, Mahavir was at 360, the abovementioned gnanis are in between 345 - 355 degrees.
Human development degrees are like this:
People with 250 degrees: Understand and believe that there is previous and next life
People with 280 degrees: Understand and believe that there is a Soul
People with 300 degrees: One who realized his true self (Soul or Purush) and knows the non self (Prakriti) too but is still under influence of past karmas and needs a jnani to lead him.
People with 345 degrees: A Jnani (one Awakened to the Self or Enlightened Being and can help others achieve the same) like the 4 mentioned above (They too have different level between 345 to 355)
People with 355 degrees: Bhagwan (God) (Fully Enlightened Beings who can not just help but have power liberate a soul. They have power to reach at 360 and achieve final moksha but due to their strong inner intent of liberating others from bondages they are still helping actively in subtelest form.)
Ex. Lord Krishna.
People with 360 degrees: Fully Enlightened Beings who have not a single karma left and they help others passively while having a body.)
Ex. Mahavir
There is a very subtle difference between people of last two degrees. Its just that the former one is working actively to help liberate others while the later one is helping others in a pssive mode and wont take a body after this i.e if you go to them they will give you solution they dont come to you. while the former one is willing to come to you and help. Nothing else is different. Also, both are Omniscient.
People like Deepak Chopra may be at 280 or may be at 300 (After reading some articles and watched him talking I personally feel he's a person with great intellectual knowledge but still hasn't really experienced the real soul within. He talks less about Soul and more about Nature of mind, intellect and ego. So i dont consider him as self realized being. You can call him self conscious and aware person)
This is all my viewpoint and conclusion is based on extensive research on 6 darashans (Especially Samkhya) + Jain and Buddhist Darshan. There is no knowledge in this universe which is out of these three.
But, still all these is not going to help us much in spirituial quest. Pick the right living jnani, get his grace and follow the path.
Best basic books I recommend for real self knowledge are:
"Who am I" from Raman maharshi.
"Who am I" from Dada bhagwan.
"I am that" from Nisargdatt Maharaj
"Science of Karma" from dadabhagwan.
All will lead you to the same: the real self which you are.
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Post by lightmystic on Jul 16, 2009 11:17:54 GMT -5
How do you know that there are not a lot more people that have achieved full Enlightenment that you are not Aware of? Also, it seems like any 355 that drops the body is going to be 360.... Just for fun, what if I told you that I was 355? Could you know? How would you verify it or not? No, In past 2500 years after lord mahavir not a single person has achieved full enlightenment. Only 3 or 4 souls have reached the state near to that but still it is more than enough for this part of time cycle. Ramkrishna Paramhansa Raman Maharshi Nisargdutt Maharaj Dada Bhagwan Vijay Kumar (Looks like) Consider it as if: Full enlightenment is at 360 degrees in a circle, Mahavir was at 360, the abovementioned gnanis are in between 345 - 355 degrees. Human development degrees are like this: People with 250 degrees: Understand and believe that there is previous and next life People with 280 degrees: Understand and believe that there is a Soul People with 300 degrees: One who realized his true self (Soul or Purush) and knows the non self (Prakriti) too but is still under influence of past karmas and needs a jnani to lead him. People with 345 degrees: A Jnani (one Awakened to the Self or Enlightened Being and can help others achieve the same) like the 4 mentioned above (They too have different level between 345 to 355) People with 355 degrees: Bhagwan (God) (Fully Enlightened Beings who can not just help but have power liberate a soul. They have power to reach at 360 and achieve final moksha but due to their strong inner intent of liberating others from bondages they are still helping actively in subtelest form.) Ex. Lord Krishna. People with 360 degrees: Fully Enlightened Beings who have not a single karma left and they help others passively while having a body.) Ex. Mahavir There is a very subtle difference between people of last two degrees. Its just that the former one is working actively to help liberate others while the later one is helping others in a pssive mode and wont take a body after this i.e if you go to them they will give you solution they dont come to you. while the former one is willing to come to you and help. Nothing else is different. Also, both are Omniscient. People like Deepak Chopra may be at 280 or may be at 300 (After reading some articles and watched him talking I personally feel he's a person with great intellectual knowledge but still hasn't really experienced the real soul within. He talks less about Soul and more about Nature of mind, intellect and ego. So i dont consider him as self realized being. You can call him self conscious and aware person) This is all my viewpoint and conclusion is based on extensive research on 6 darashans (Especially Samkhya) + Jain and Buddhist Darshan. There is no knowledge in this universe which is out of these three. But, still all these is not going to help us much in spirituial quest. Pick the right living jnani, get his grace and follow the path. Best basic books I recommend for real self knowledge are: "Who am I" from Raman maharshi. "Who am I" from Dada bhagwan. "I am that" from Nisargdatt Maharaj "Science of Karma" from dadabhagwan. All will lead you to the same: the real self which you are. |
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Post by ascetiic on Jul 16, 2009 12:22:57 GMT -5
Light Mystic, If you are at 355, It's a great news for this world for their miseries will come to end. I do not deny your statement. As far as my knowledge is concerned. It's not just me but everyone including your family members will come to know about it just by looking at your behaviour. If you are at 355 just check yourself before I check you whether or not you have got rid of Anger, Pride, Lust and Ego (In the subtlest form which makes you feel that (I am "Whatever your real name is"). If you are totally free from these. I have got dozens of tests which i can perform to test your degrees. Also, People who are on these levels never remain unseen or unknown. Their brilliance and knowledge always drag huge masses of people around them. And there is no doubt that you will reach that state some time in cosmic life, One has to by the law of nature. Hope it helps! How do you know that there are not a lot more people that have achieved full Enlightenment that you are not Aware of? Also, it seems like any 355 that drops the body is going to be 360.... Just for fun, what if I told you that I was 355? Could you know? How would you verify it or not? No, In past 2500 years after lord mahavir not a single person has achieved full enlightenment. Only 3 or 4 souls have reached the state near to that but still it is more than enough for this part of time cycle. Ramkrishna Paramhansa Raman Maharshi Nisargdutt Maharaj Dada Bhagwan Vijay Kumar (Looks like) Consider it as if: Full enlightenment is at 360 degrees in a circle, Mahavir was at 360, the abovementioned gnanis are in between 345 - 355 degrees. Human development degrees are like this: People with 250 degrees: Understand and believe that there is previous and next life People with 280 degrees: Understand and believe that there is a Soul People with 300 degrees: One who realized his true self (Soul or Purush) and knows the non self (Prakriti) too but is still under influence of past karmas and needs a jnani to lead him. People with 345 degrees: A Jnani (one Awakened to the Self or Enlightened Being and can help others achieve the same) like the 4 mentioned above (They too have different level between 345 to 355) People with 355 degrees: Bhagwan (God) (Fully Enlightened Beings who can not just help but have power liberate a soul. They have power to reach at 360 and achieve final moksha but due to their strong inner intent of liberating others from bondages they are still helping actively in subtelest form.) Ex. Lord Krishna. People with 360 degrees: Fully Enlightened Beings who have not a single karma left and they help others passively while having a body.) Ex. Mahavir There is a very subtle difference between people of last two degrees. Its just that the former one is working actively to help liberate others while the later one is helping others in a pssive mode and wont take a body after this i.e if you go to them they will give you solution they dont come to you. while the former one is willing to come to you and help. Nothing else is different. Also, both are Omniscient. People like Deepak Chopra may be at 280 or may be at 300 (After reading some articles and watched him talking I personally feel he's a person with great intellectual knowledge but still hasn't really experienced the real soul within. He talks less about Soul and more about Nature of mind, intellect and ego. So i dont consider him as self realized being. You can call him self conscious and aware person) This is all my viewpoint and conclusion is based on extensive research on 6 darashans (Especially Samkhya) + Jain and Buddhist Darshan. There is no knowledge in this universe which is out of these three. But, still all these is not going to help us much in spirituial quest. Pick the right living jnani, get his grace and follow the path. Best basic books I recommend for real self knowledge are: "Who am I" from Raman maharshi. "Who am I" from Dada bhagwan. "I am that" from Nisargdatt Maharaj "Science of Karma" from dadabhagwan. All will lead you to the same: the real self which you are. |
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Post by lightmystic on Jul 16, 2009 13:26:33 GMT -5
That does help. Thank you for sharing your belief system with me. Four points. I would love to hear what you think about each one: 1. Where does the idea come from that behavior is a reliable sign of one's inner knowing? 2. Another suggestion that would be fun to explore is: if it's true that, for one who knows they are infinite/God, life continues without them identifying as a separate limited individual (which is my experience), then why cannot all values be there without attachment or identification with those feelings? Whose to say that any feeling will not arise when identification with the relative ceases? 3. I can certainly grant you that the personality relaxes more and more over time, and so there is always more of a tendency to be peaceful, joyful, and so forth. But whose to say that it will look a certain way for any specific individual? I find that it's the personalities that relax, not become something other than what they are. The personalities are fulfilling their function in life. 4. Are you really saying that someone at power level 355, who sees, knows, and directs the very fabric of existence itself cannot have any sort of life that they want? You do mention that there tends to be a desire to help others, and I can go with that. And I can appreciate the tendency to reach larger masses of people, but it seems unlikely that it would be a general rule, as people can only follow the 355 person as much as he/she permits. They may recognize something, but that doesn't mean it's going to be a spiritual movement or someone of great fame necessarily. It depends on what the personality wants to do. If you feel otherwise, why? Light Mystic, If you are at 355, It's a great news for this world for their miseries will come to end. I do not deny your statement. As far as my knowledge is concerned. It's not just me but everyone including your family members will come to know about it just by looking at your behaviour. If you are at 355 just check yourself before I check you whether or not you have got rid of Anger, Pride, Lust and Ego (In the subtlest form which makes you feel that (I am "Whatever your real name is"). If you are totally free from these. I have got dozens of tests which i can perform to test your degrees. Also, People who are on these levels never remain unseen or unknown. Their brilliance and knowledge always drag huge masses of people around them. And there is no doubt that you will reach that state some time in cosmic life, One has to by the law of nature. Hope it helps! How do you know that there are not a lot more people that have achieved full Enlightenment that you are not Aware of? Also, it seems like any 355 that drops the body is going to be 360.... Just for fun, what if I told you that I was 355? Could you know? How would you verify it or not? |
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Post by ascetiic on Jul 16, 2009 13:31:45 GMT -5
Lightmystic, Can you make your question simpler for me? I did not understand what you want to say and in ref to what. That does help. Thank you for sharing your belief system with me. So are you saying that one who knows they are infinite cannot behave certain ways? Why is that? How do you know? Light Mystic, If you are at 355, It's a great news for this world for their miseries will come to end. I do not deny your statement. As far as my knowledge is concerned. It's not just me but everyone including your family members will come to know about it just by looking at your behaviour. If you are at 355 just check yourself before I check you whether or not you have got rid of Anger, Pride, Lust and Ego (In the subtlest form which makes you feel that (I am "Whatever your real name is"). If you are totally free from these. I have got dozens of tests which i can perform to test your degrees. Also, People who are on these levels never remain unseen or unknown. Their brilliance and knowledge always drag huge masses of people around them. And there is no doubt that you will reach that state some time in cosmic life, One has to by the law of nature. Hope it helps! |
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Post by giannis on Jul 16, 2009 13:41:56 GMT -5
Ascetiic, I think that everybody can fake a quiz. Only we can know for sure. The rest is ... faith. where is the desire to avoid death coming from? The desire to avoid death comes from a "tensioned layer" above the "being feeling". The last one seems to survive, no matter what, the "tension layer" seems to die, no matter what. Sad story. |
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Post by lightmystic on Jul 16, 2009 13:56:14 GMT -5
Okay, I edited it to try to be more clear. See above. Please let me know if that is still too complicated. Lightmystic, Can you make your question simpler for me? I did not understand what you want to say and in ref to what. That does help. Thank you for sharing your belief system with me. So are you saying that one who knows they are infinite cannot behave certain ways? Why is that? How do you know? |
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Post by ascetiic on Jul 16, 2009 14:00:14 GMT -5
Yes ofcourse giannis. As i previosuly said all these are just viewpoints and are of no much value (jugglery of words and showing of the borrowed knowledge). Questions like these just arises in the mind and intellect finds the answers by finding it in some book which are much limited.
The truth will only be known after knowing and realizing the true self in its totality.
to know who is at which level is useless. I just shared what i realized intellectually which ofcourse has nothing to do with realization of self.
We can only know where we are. As Ramana Maharshi states "Know who you are, Everything else will be known"
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Post by ascetiic on Jul 16, 2009 14:52:48 GMT -5
lightmystic,
I will try to reply to your 4 points one by one due to limitation of time also you can talk about same point in detail if you want.
So heres the first 1:
1. Where does the idea come from that behavior is a reliable sign of one's inner knowing?
"External Behaviour" is not at all reliable sign of one's inner knowing. Not at all. It was about inner behaviour or you may say "Natural Internal Tendencies". External behaviour is all about etiquettes, manners and beign respectful.
Example: Your friend comes to you and punch you on the face 5 times in a row. If you tell him nothing just because you dont want to break relationship and want to be good just by not doing or saying anything to him. This is external behaviour. In this case the energy within doesn't remain still. And even if you did a good thing you will never be able to forget this incident so easily becuase your ego will not leave it.
Now after the same incident on that very moment if you understand "WHO - Non-Self" punched "WHOM- Non-Self" and why this thing happened (Due to past karmic accounts and cicumstances). You just watched everything with awareness+realization of who you and your friend actually are (a real self) without hurting that person even in the mind then this is a reliable sign of inner knowing. Here the energy remains more stable and your mind will not disturb you in reference to that incident. Because you knew that it happened to whom (the body,mind, ego etc) and you really are different from them.
If in your everyday dealing (may it be small or big) you apply second option. Everyone around you will start realizing this as they will not get the echos of your ego (unsteady energy). World is like mirror, what is inside your mind will be reflected outside around you.
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Post by lightmystic on Jul 16, 2009 15:29:32 GMT -5
I like what you said. The way I think of it is in terms of acting in integrity with oneself. So it doesn't mean being benign or an automoton. There can be great passion. Rather it's getting the ego out of the way (or realizing it never existed as separate) and letting the personality behave in a way that is most natural for it. So that doesn't mean I'm going let my friend punch me in the face, but the experience is that the attempt to punch is perfect, the stopping is perfect, the sharp words to the friend is perfect, and the success or failure to prevent the punch is perfect. The individual gets to respond how is appropriate for him, and the Being that knows he's all of life gets to be connected to and so appreciate the whole play, the whole experience. As you said, outer behavior does not indicate inner state. That's what I find as well. Although SomeNothing on this site said it particularly well in that in how to tell if someone is legitimate. lightmystic, I will try to reply to your 4 points one by one due to limitation of time also you can talk about same point in detail if you want. So heres the first 1: 1. Where does the idea come from that behavior is a reliable sign of one's inner knowing? "External Behaviour" is not at all reliable sign of one's inner knowing. Not at all. It was about inner behaviour or you may say "Natural Internal Tendencies". External behaviour is all about etiquettes, manners and beign respectful. Example: Your friend comes to you and punch you on the face 5 times in a row. If you tell him nothing just because you dont want to break relationship and want to be good just by not doing or saying anything to him. This is external behaviour. In this case the energy within doesn't remain still. And even if you did a good thing you will never be able to forget this incident so easily becuase your ego will not leave it. Now after the same incident on that very moment if you understand "WHO - Non-Self" punched "WHOM- Non-Self" and why this thing happened (Due to past karmic accounts and cicumstances). You just watched everything with awareness+realization of who you and your friend actually are (a real self) without hurting that person even in the mind then this is a reliable sign of inner knowing. Here the energy remains more stable and your mind will not disturb you in reference to that incident. Because you knew that it happened to whom (the body,mind, ego etc) and you really are different from them. If in your everyday dealing (may it be small or big) you apply second option. Everyone around you will start realizing this as they will not get the echos of your ego (unsteady energy). World is like mirror, what is inside your mind will be reflected outside around you. |
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Post by steverino on Jul 24, 2009 17:42:17 GMT -5
of course not
He's a corporation whore.
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Post by lightmystic on Jul 25, 2009 1:54:26 GMT -5
How do you know he's not? of course not He's a corporation sleeper. |
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Post by steverino on Jul 27, 2009 6:37:42 GMT -5
Hi,
Sorry for the slow response. Actually I confused him with someone else. Sorry for replying.
Steve
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