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Post by enigma on May 17, 2012 20:16:36 GMT -5
Agreed. Hey! We have to think. I like your insights on the chakras, too. Prana (life energy) is prior to mind. Here's the way I see a wholly integrated mind- body- spirit. Every now and again I'll be outdoors and see a flock of geese flying overhead. Maybe they'll turn one way, as One, and then another way, as One. This is WAAAAAY beyond mind. It's all being orchestrated. I don't get the orchestrated bit. That seems like a leap. Why couldn't it be that they're all following the same 'rules' (encoded or learned). Sort of like a fractal. It is undeniably beautiful, yes. The first time I saw something like this, I was in awe as to how a bunch of bird brains could dance together with such instantaneous precision. I've since come to see that bird brains....don't. Yea, it's probably more reflexive. sublime vid. edit: i'm thinking cellular automata Well, reflexive sounds a bit like instinctive, which is close to what I'm seeing. Instinct seems to be a word that really means 'collective mind'. 300,000 super intelligent humans trying to move like that in two dimensions would no doubt fall all over each other. Dunno what cellular automata means. |
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Post by silence on May 17, 2012 21:52:32 GMT -5
Well, reflexive sounds a bit like instinctive, which is close to what I'm seeing. Instinct seems to be a word that really means 'collective mind'. 300,000 super intelligent humans trying to move like that in two dimensions would no doubt fall all over each other. Dunno what cellular automata means. Super intelligent humans by most peoples criteria are usually the clumsiest and unnatural of all. The cosmic joke can be found everywhere.  |
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Post by enigma on May 17, 2012 22:12:18 GMT -5
Well, reflexive sounds a bit like instinctive, which is close to what I'm seeing. Instinct seems to be a word that really means 'collective mind'. 300,000 super intelligent humans trying to move like that in two dimensions would no doubt fall all over each other. Dunno what cellular automata means. Super intelligent humans by most peoples criteria are usually the clumsiest and unnatural of all. The cosmic joke can be found everywhere. Right, I guess that was the point about the bird dance having little to do with bird brains. |
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Post by living on May 18, 2012 4:58:01 GMT -5
I don't get the orchestrated bit. That seems like a leap. Why couldn't it be that they're all following the same 'rules' (encoded or learned). Sort of like a fractal. It is undeniably beautiful, yes. Yea, it's probably more reflexive. sublime vid. edit: i'm thinking cellular automata Ok, so let's look at it from this perspective. There are bodies of many geese reacting to some stimuli, their reaction could be interpreted as- reflexive. But even this isn't a final answer. It's an observation. The stimuli would still have to have an origin. We still have to ask- what is orchestrating it? |
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Post by living on May 18, 2012 5:22:29 GMT -5
Heisenberg comes the closest to answering it for me- "Since the measuring device has been constructed by the observer...we have to remember that what we observe is not nature in itself but nature exposed to our method of questioning."
Hearing transcends thinking
Feeling transcends hearing
Seeing transcends feeling
Being transcends seeing
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Post by question on May 18, 2012 5:44:48 GMT -5
I don't get the orchestrated bit. That seems like a leap. Why couldn't it be that they're all following the same 'rules' (encoded or learned). Sort of like a fractal. It is undeniably beautiful, yes. Yea, it's probably more reflexive. sublime vid. edit: i'm thinking cellular automata Ok, so let's look at it from this perspective. There are bodies of many geese reacting to some stimuli, their reaction could be interpreted as- reflexive. But even this isn't a final answer. It's an observation. The stimuli would still have to have an origin. We still have to ask- what is orchestrating it? It's much much simpler than that. Work it like a zen koan and then it'll be obvious. |
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Post by living on May 18, 2012 5:49:21 GMT -5
Ok, so let's look at it from this perspective. There are bodies of many geese reacting to some stimuli, their reaction could be interpreted as- reflexive. But even this isn't a final answer. It's an observation. The stimuli would still have to have an origin. We still have to ask- what is orchestrating it? It's much much simpler than that. Work it like a zen koan and then it'll be obvious. ok |
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2012 10:40:17 GMT -5
I don't get the orchestrated bit. That seems like a leap. Why couldn't it be that they're all following the same 'rules' (encoded or learned). Sort of like a fractal. It is undeniably beautiful, yes. Yea, it's probably more reflexive. sublime vid. edit: i'm thinking cellular automata Ok, so let's look at it from this perspective. There are bodies of many geese reacting to some stimuli, their reaction could be interpreted as- reflexive. But even this isn't a final answer. It's an observation. The stimuli would still have to have an origin. We still have to ask- what is orchestrating it? Well I think it's fun to ask that Q, but I don't have to. It sounds like a push-poll question in any case. It presumes orchestration. |
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2012 10:56:46 GMT -5
Well, reflexive sounds a bit like instinctive, which is close to what I'm seeing. Instinct seems to be a word that really means 'collective mind'. 300,000 super intelligent humans trying to move like that in two dimensions would no doubt fall all over each other. Dunno what cellular automata means. The concept of 'collective mind' as equivalent to instinct is a fun one. I'm not really sure I buy it though. I'm not super well-read on cellular automata. It has been used as a theory to describe complex group behaviours. If all the 'identical' parts of a group are operating under a certain set of equal rules, when they mass together, certain complex group behaviours result. |
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Post by living on May 18, 2012 11:09:37 GMT -5
I probably should have related a bit more about stepping out of the house to see the formation turning this way, and then that. Somehow I am within the equation being seen. It's as though my presence is somehow being acknowledged within this seeing of the goings on in the formation. I really don't think about it too much. If it's within me- so be it. I'm way too busy smiling when these things 'happen.'
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Post by enigma on May 18, 2012 11:35:04 GMT -5
Well, reflexive sounds a bit like instinctive, which is close to what I'm seeing. Instinct seems to be a word that really means 'collective mind'. 300,000 super intelligent humans trying to move like that in two dimensions would no doubt fall all over each other. Dunno what cellular automata means. The concept of 'collective mind' as equivalent to instinct is a fun one. I'm not really sure I buy it though. I'm not super well-read on cellular automata. It has been used as a theory to describe complex group behaviours. If all the 'identical' parts of a group are operating under a certain set of equal rules, when they mass together, certain complex group behaviours result. To me, everything comes back to an integrated movement of a singular consciousness expressing in a multitude of forms, so I see instinct as a story to explain behavior that can't be explained by cognitive function, and I see the fractal nature of nature as a story to explain the elegant efficiency with which such an integrated function would be expected to express. From what you say, it sounds like cellular automata is a similar story to explain collective behaviors that operate from the 'outside in' (macro to micro) rather than the reverse. Which of those stories explains the 3000 mile exodus of the Monarch from several places in Canada to small forest in Mexico? |
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2012 11:45:30 GMT -5
To me, everything comes back to an integrated movement of a singular consciousness expressing in a multitude of forms, so I see instinct as a story to explain behavior that can't be explained by cognitive function, and I see the fractal nature of nature as a story to explain the elegant efficiency with which such an integrated function would be expected to express. From what you say, it sounds like cellular automata is a similar story to explain collective behaviors that operate from the 'outside in' (macro to micro) rather than the reverse. I agree that they are both stories to explain stuff. Have no clue. They're both interesting though. Fun to think about. Sort of spices up the awesome wonder of it all. Maybe the gods will tell me some day, mebbe not. |
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Post by question on May 18, 2012 11:49:30 GMT -5
Which of those stories explains the 3000 mile exodus of the Monarch from several places in Canada to small forest in Mexico? It's obviously an integrated movement of a singular consciousness expressing in a multitude of forms. |
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Post by enigma on May 18, 2012 11:52:24 GMT -5
To me, everything comes back to an integrated movement of a singular consciousness expressing in a multitude of forms, so I see instinct as a story to explain behavior that can't be explained by cognitive function, and I see the fractal nature of nature as a story to explain the elegant efficiency with which such an integrated function would be expected to express. From what you say, it sounds like cellular automata is a similar story to explain collective behaviors that operate from the 'outside in' (macro to micro) rather than the reverse. I agree that they are both stories to explain stuff. Have no clue. They're both interesting though. Fun to think about. Sort of spices up the awesome wonder of it all. Maybe the gods will tell me some day, mebbe not. Yeah, "awesome wonder" pretty much describes my reaction too. Not really waiting for the Gods to reveal the secret so much, though. Hehe. |
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2012 12:08:05 GMT -5
I agree that they are both stories to explain stuff. Have no clue. They're both interesting though. Fun to think about. Sort of spices up the awesome wonder of it all. Maybe the gods will tell me some day, mebbe not. Yeah, "awesome wonder" pretty much describes my reaction too. Not really waiting for the Gods to reveal the secret so much, though. Hehe. fwiw, I'm not waiting either. Awesome wonder plus mindstuff with questionmarks is fine. You make it sound like you have Awesome wonder with mindstuff and no questionmarks. |
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