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Post by arisha on May 12, 2012 3:01:07 GMT -5
I was always deeply interested in Zen, inspired by the old Zen Masters, and followed Zen in my life.
What do the modern Zen "teachers" lack so much that they cannot be taken seriously as Zen teachers? It's ridiculous to view them as those who are Zen teachers, or who are even close to the teaching...
I guess people here will disagree as they never agree to those who question what or who they believe in.
I am not going to prove my idea with conceptualizing. I always try to find an answer about what is questioned in a feeling/sensation I have, and only then to use concepts to explain it if necessary. So, I am trying to use this approach. The feeling about the old Masters of Zen, and their modern imitators is so much different, if not opposite...
I really cannot understand how people can be deceived so much...
What do you think about the old teachers in particular, and about the way of thinking people used to have at their time? What if it wasn't the same as today, but it was different?
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Post by relinquish on May 12, 2012 3:27:08 GMT -5
One way or the other, the Truth is no different now than it was back then. In a billion trillion years from now, it will not have changed one iota.
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Post by arisha on May 12, 2012 3:37:57 GMT -5
One way or the other, the Truth is no different now than it was back then. In a billion trillion years from now, it will not have changed one iota. Hmmmm... I heard it's different... The old Egyptian symbol of truth pointed in a different direction... The only truth I can agree with is Death, that we will all die. I don't know about any other Truth. The truth you are talking about might be different even because of a different way of life, to say nothing of different vibrations from the stars at those ancient times. |
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Post by zendancer on May 12, 2012 3:50:32 GMT -5
One way or the other, the Truth is no different now than it was back then. In a billion trillion years from now, it will not have changed one iota. Exactly. Spme people found the truth in the past, and some people find the truth now. What's the problem? |
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Post by living on May 12, 2012 8:21:55 GMT -5
Maybe "truth" is the problem? The only thing that is actually there is our "logically" ascertained premise, which we call "truth". Without it, there is just movement. Flow.
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Post by silence on May 12, 2012 8:58:11 GMT -5
Yes, truth is a word that I tend to avoid these days because it's nearly impossible for it to not be imagined as finding some sort of knowledge. What's being referred to is a verb. The moment you try to capture it in any way... poof!
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Post by zendancer on May 12, 2012 9:21:02 GMT -5
Maybe "truth" is the problem? The only thing that is actually there is our "logically" ascertained premise, which we call "truth". Without it, there is just movement. Flow. Yeah, the word "Truth" is just pointing to the boundarylessness of "what is." So is the word "flow." |
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Post by living on May 12, 2012 9:26:10 GMT -5
Maybe "truth" is the problem? The only thing that is actually there is our "logically" ascertained premise, which we call "truth". Without it, there is just movement. Flow. Yeah, the word "Truth" is just pointing to the boundarylessness of "what is." So is the word "flow." Yeah, flow dims It, too. Movement is closer. The universe is ever expanding, etc. |
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Post by mamza on May 12, 2012 12:18:52 GMT -5
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
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Post by arisha on May 12, 2012 14:29:10 GMT -5
One way or the other, the Truth is no different now than it was back then. In a billion trillion years from now, it will not have changed one iota. Exactly. Spme people found the truth in the past, and some people find the truth now. What's the problem? The problem is the truth found in the past has been checked by time. Nobody doubts now that it is Truth. This new truth found now won't stand the test by time. In some years it will be forgotten. I promise you. Because 1. Just a few people believe in it. 2.The teachers are also very few, and they don't stand the test as teachers. 3.This new truth is just an attempt to repeat the old known truth with distortions which make it be no truth anymore. Sure, this is conceptualizing, but it is based on the intuitive feeling. Conclusion: Better pay more attention to the ancient Teachers and the ancient Truth. Only then you can have a result. People sound so unnatural and affected when they claim they are in their bliss with the new found truth. |
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Post by someNOTHING! on May 12, 2012 14:47:46 GMT -5
Exactly. Spme people found the truth in the past, and some people find the truth now. What's the problem? The problem is the truth found in the past has been checked by time. Nobody doubts now that it is Truth. This new truth found now won't stand the test by time. In some years it will be forgotten. I promise you. Because 1. Just a few people believe in it. 2.The teachers are also very few, and they don't stand the test as teachers. 3.This new truth is just an attempt to repeat the old known truth with distortions which make it be no truth anymore. Sure, this is conceptualizing, but it is based on the intuitive feeling. Conclusion: Better pay more attention to the ancient Teachers and the ancient Truth. Only then you can have a result. People sound so unnatural and affected when they claim they are in their bliss with the new found truth. So, the NOW then was/is not the same as the NOW now? Hmmm, what do we do now??? |
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Post by arisha on May 12, 2012 14:51:39 GMT -5
The problem is the truth found in the past has been checked by time. Nobody doubts now that it is Truth. This new truth found now won't stand the test by time. In some years it will be forgotten. I promise you. Because 1. Just a few people believe in it. 2.The teachers are also very few, and they don't stand the test as teachers. 3.This new truth is just an attempt to repeat the old known truth with distortions which make it be no truth anymore. Sure, this is conceptualizing, but it is based on the intuitive feeling. Conclusion: Better pay more attention to the ancient Teachers and the ancient Truth. Only then you can have a result. People sound so unnatural and affected when they claim they are in their bliss with the new found truth. So, the NOW then was/is not the same as the NOW now? Hmmm, what do we do now??? It very well wasn't. People were also different. They saw that NOW differently. But those teachers managed to teach about the Truth. The modern teachers cannot. |
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Post by klaus on May 12, 2012 15:08:53 GMT -5
Let the dead bury the dead.
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Post by someNOTHING! on May 12, 2012 15:14:06 GMT -5
So, the NOW then was/is not the same as the NOW now? Hmmm, what do we do now??? It very well wasn't. People were also different. They saw that NOW differently. But those teachers managed to teach about the Truth. The modern teachers cannot. It may be that our understanding of the word NOW is different. Maybe you can express your interpretation? What exactly did they teach about the Truth? |
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Post by arisha on May 12, 2012 15:14:50 GMT -5
Let the dead bury the dead. I don't think they should be buried. I think they are much more useful than those alive who only pretend to be. |
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