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Post by mamza on May 13, 2012 16:09:47 GMT -5
"but this is how it sounds very often on this site."
I don't hear silent and stupid at all, even from people like myself that pretend to know about it. That may be a personal interpretation.
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Post by silence on May 13, 2012 16:14:38 GMT -5
All ancient Teachers of the past. Buddha. Bodhidharma who taught what did not stand upon words. His followers, 'six patriarchs'. Linji, nutsu. Those from Five Houses. Nobody says about any teacher talking of stillness and silence as stupidly still and silent , - but this is how it sounds very often here on this site. Maybe modern teachers want to say the same what old Masters said, but the way they talk about it takes it so much away it can be hardly recognized. The whole aura of the old teachings is destroyed, - and it can't be otherwise. The different time creates different modalities. As for me I prefer the old authentic texts. To be able to enjoy the teaching in its pure authenticity. When something else is added to the teaching (even due to the changes connected to time) it is transformed inevitably into something which loses its primary meaning and sense. It's the same phenomena where people like the book better than the movie. Since you never had even a moments interaction with all of the teachers you speak of, you were able to form a favorable image of them and how they went about things. With teachers or people you think are teachers today, your illusions of what you hoped spiritual teachers would look like are popped. All of a sudden some guy on youtube doesn't live up to the grand image you have of the Buddha floating in the air, needing only to smile at folks to enlighten them. When we talk about Truth, the only authenticity is right now. Even to read the most eloquent writings about the Buddha are to live through your memory. There isn't anything to know and this is why people are talking about moving the attention towards the identical silence that is here now just as it was then. That movement is here even in the words of the bumbling moron. Thought wants to go back and declare that we passed up the secret. The secret was that there never was any secret. |
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Post by relinquish on May 13, 2012 16:28:34 GMT -5
All ancient Teachers of the past. Buddha. Bodhidharma who taught what did not stand upon words. His followers, 'six patriarchs'. Linji, nutsu. Those from Five Houses. Nobody says about any teacher talking of stillness and silence as stupidly still and silent , - but this is how it sounds very often here on this site. Maybe modern teachers want to say the same what old Masters said, but the way they talk about it takes it so much away it can be hardly recognized. The whole aura of the old teachings is destroyed, - and it can't be otherwise. The different time creates different modalities. As for me I prefer the old authentic texts. To be able to enjoy the teaching in its pure authenticity. When something else is added to the teaching (even due to the changes connected to time) it is transformed inevitably into something which loses its primary meaning and sense. You do realize, don't you, that all of those teachers were sharing a message that it was entirely possible for people to fully awaken, something that you seem to think is impossible? |
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Post by enigma on May 13, 2012 20:35:27 GMT -5
All ancient Teachers of the past. Buddha. Bodhidharma who taught what did not stand upon words. His followers, 'six patriarchs'. Linji, nutsu. Those from Five Houses. Nobody says about any teacher talking of stillness and silence as stupidly still and silent , - but this is how it sounds very often here on this site. Maybe modern teachers want to say the same what old Masters said, but the way they talk about it takes it so much away it can be hardly recognized. The whole aura of the old teachings is destroyed, - and it can't be otherwise. The different time creates different modalities. As for me I prefer the old authentic texts. To be able to enjoy the teaching in its pure authenticity. When something else is added to the teaching (even due to the changes connected to time) it is transformed inevitably into something which loses its primary meaning and sense. All sorts of odd things are said 'here on this site'. Hehe. I thought you were talking about what modern teachers say. |
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Post by arisha on May 13, 2012 20:45:49 GMT -5
"but this is how it sounds very often on this site." I don't hear silent and stupid at all, even from people like myself that pretend to know about it. That may be a personal interpretation. When it is recommended to get rid of thoughts how else can it sound? What the ancient teachers meant when they said about stillness and silence was quite different, and the interpretation of what they really meant is often very far from the truth. The ancient teachers never recommended to get rid of thoughts. The method they used helped organize thoughts even better. That's why their insights about the deepest secrets of the Universe were possible. That's why they were able to penetrate the realms of what is hidden from the eye. And that's why there are no insights of the moderns teachers about anything. |
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Post by arisha on May 13, 2012 20:52:25 GMT -5
All ancient Teachers of the past. Buddha. Bodhidharma who taught what did not stand upon words. His followers, 'six patriarchs'. Linji, nutsu. Those from Five Houses. Nobody says about any teacher talking of stillness and silence as stupidly still and silent , - but this is how it sounds very often here on this site. Maybe modern teachers want to say the same what old Masters said, but the way they talk about it takes it so much away it can be hardly recognized. The whole aura of the old teachings is destroyed, - and it can't be otherwise. The different time creates different modalities. As for me I prefer the old authentic texts. To be able to enjoy the teaching in its pure authenticity. When something else is added to the teaching (even due to the changes connected to time) it is transformed inevitably into something which loses its primary meaning and sense. It's the same phenomena where people like the book better than the movie. Since you never had even a moments interaction with all of the teachers you speak of, you were able to form a favorable image of them and how they went about things. With teachers or people you think are teachers today, your illusions of what you hoped spiritual teachers would look like are popped. All of a sudden some guy on youtube doesn't live up to the grand image you have of the Buddha floating in the air, needing only to smile at folks to enlighten them. When we talk about Truth, the only authenticity is right now. Even to read the most eloquent writings about the Buddha are to live through your memory. There isn't anything to know and this is why people are talking about moving the attention towards the identical silence that is here now just as it was then. That movement is here even in the words of the bumbling moron. Thought wants to go back and declare that we passed up the secret. The secret was that there never was any secret. Oh, no. It's for kids to expect the grand image to be lived up on YouTube or whatever. Sorry, your understanding of what Truth is happens to be very close to what those thoughtless guys invite to share. Pure nonsense which is absolutely useless. Be more critical about what you are told. |
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Post by arisha on May 13, 2012 20:54:30 GMT -5
All ancient Teachers of the past. Buddha. Bodhidharma who taught what did not stand upon words. His followers, 'six patriarchs'. Linji, nutsu. Those from Five Houses. Nobody says about any teacher talking of stillness and silence as stupidly still and silent , - but this is how it sounds very often here on this site. Maybe modern teachers want to say the same what old Masters said, but the way they talk about it takes it so much away it can be hardly recognized. The whole aura of the old teachings is destroyed, - and it can't be otherwise. The different time creates different modalities. As for me I prefer the old authentic texts. To be able to enjoy the teaching in its pure authenticity. When something else is added to the teaching (even due to the changes connected to time) it is transformed inevitably into something which loses its primary meaning and sense. You do realize, don't you, that all of those teachers were sharing a message that it was entirely possible for people to fully awaken, something that you seem to think is impossible? What you think is to be awake and what those teachers meant does not necessarily coincide. |
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Post by arisha on May 13, 2012 20:57:19 GMT -5
All ancient Teachers of the past. Buddha. Bodhidharma who taught what did not stand upon words. His followers, 'six patriarchs'. Linji, nutsu. Those from Five Houses. Nobody says about any teacher talking of stillness and silence as stupidly still and silent , - but this is how it sounds very often here on this site. Maybe modern teachers want to say the same what old Masters said, but the way they talk about it takes it so much away it can be hardly recognized. The whole aura of the old teachings is destroyed, - and it can't be otherwise. The different time creates different modalities. As for me I prefer the old authentic texts. To be able to enjoy the teaching in its pure authenticity. When something else is added to the teaching (even due to the changes connected to time) it is transformed inevitably into something which loses its primary meaning and sense. All sorts of odd things are said 'here on this site'. Hehe. I thought you were talking about what modern teachers say. Yes, this is what I was talking about. |
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Post by enigma on May 13, 2012 22:35:22 GMT -5
All sorts of odd things are said 'here on this site'. Hehe. I thought you were talking about what modern teachers say. Yes, this is what I was talking about. Are you thinking this is sposed to a forum full of modern teachers again?  |
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Post by mamza on May 13, 2012 23:05:32 GMT -5
"but this is how it sounds very often on this site." I don't hear silent and stupid at all, even from people like myself that pretend to know about it. That may be a personal interpretation. When it is recommended to get rid of thoughts how else can it sound? What the ancient teachers meant when they said about stillness and silence was quite different, and the interpretation of what they really meant is often very far from the truth. The ancient teachers never recommended to get rid of thoughts. The method they used helped organize thoughts even better. That's why their insights about the deepest secrets of the Universe were possible. That's why they were able to penetrate the realms of what is hidden from the eye. And that's why there are no insights of the moderns teachers about anything. It has been said on several occasions that stopping thoughts is neither necessary, nor applicable to all people. Slowing them down is RECOMMENDED to most people because most people can't stop thinking for long enough to see a bottle of mustard right in front of them. I am one of those people. Sitting down for a while to chill out and calm my bee hive down is helpful to start seeing the world actually going on around me rather than ideas sweet as honey ABOUT the world around me. |
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Post by arisha on May 13, 2012 23:55:32 GMT -5
Yes, this is what I was talking about. Are you thinking this is sposed to a forum full of modern teachers again? I don't understand your question. |
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Post by enigma on May 14, 2012 0:37:36 GMT -5
Are you thinking this is sposed to a forum full of modern teachers again? I don't understand your question. Never mind. |
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Post by arisha on May 14, 2012 0:41:59 GMT -5
When it is recommended to get rid of thoughts how else can it sound? What the ancient teachers meant when they said about stillness and silence was quite different, and the interpretation of what they really meant is often very far from the truth. The ancient teachers never recommended to get rid of thoughts. The method they used helped organize thoughts even better. That's why their insights about the deepest secrets of the Universe were possible. That's why they were able to penetrate the realms of what is hidden from the eye. And that's why there are no insights of the moderns teachers about anything. It has been said on several occasions that stopping thoughts is neither necessary, nor applicable to all people. Slowing them down is RECOMMENDED to most people because most people can't stop thinking for long enough to see a bottle of mustard right in front of them. I am one of those people. Sitting down for a while to chill out and calm my bee hive down is helpful to start seeing the world actually going on around me rather than ideas sweet as honey ABOUT the world around me. Not only that. It was recommended several times to get rid of thoughts. It's a big mess here about many other things as well. Sure, people may have different goals . And this web site is just for fun. But I noticed that some of them easily agree with the most absurd things being serious enough. In any case, those who want to have a result, and are here not just because they have much free time, should be also recommended things that can be useful and helpful for them. I think it's much more useful to read the authentic texts than those modern authors who will burst like a bubble soon. They are full of self-importance and self-conceit. The first sign of it is their inability to notice their shortcomings and to be self-critical. If their way of life is different from the ideas they teach, they cannot be teachers. They cannot convey what is beyond words. The lie they live with make it impossible for them. So, what they are teaching about is just idle talking, false concepts which are senseless and useless. If there is no purity, this system stops working. This is what the ancient teachers knew about, and the modern , - don't. |
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Post by mamza on May 14, 2012 3:22:15 GMT -5
How do you know whether or not somebody else knows something or not? You can't read their mind. Why spend so much time debunking modern teachers that are bound to fail anyway? If you like your authentic texts, that's great. Feel free to share them. But what's the point in trying to say that absolutely nobody understands anything but you and your old teachers?
The inexperienced and unfamiliar (sometimes the experienced and familiar, too) will spin, just like they always do. They'll stop spinning when they're dizzy. No need for you to tell them they'll be dizzy when they can just feel it for themselves.
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Post by arisha on May 15, 2012 12:02:05 GMT -5
How do you know whether or not somebody else knows something or not? You can't read their mind. Why spend so much time debunking modern teachers that are bound to fail anyway? If you like your authentic texts, that's great. Feel free to share them. But what's the point in trying to say that absolutely nobody understands anything but you and your old teachers? The inexperienced and unfamiliar (sometimes the experienced and familiar, too) will spin, just like they always do. They'll stop spinning when they're dizzy. No need for you to tell them they'll be dizzy when they can just feel it for themselves. Yes, but it's better not to be wasting the time. I don't say absolutely nobody understands anything. Most people do understand. If those modern authors know why the system works or doesn't work, but keep on pretending that it works with their methods, - then it's even worse.They simply play the fool with those who believe them. |
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