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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2012 14:04:05 GMT -5
Are you sure he's saying that? I paused for thought, so I wouldnt say Im certain. However, I have seen E use language in a particular way over and over and over and over again which suggests that either a) he thinks we are all total newbies, or b) he has fallen into a reification trap. I think its probably a mix of both. I think of enigma as a projector mechanic. He gets everyone's projection working crystal clear. For example, on (a) above, I've seen you andrew talk alot about who is and who isn't newbies. I've wondered if that actually is a little of a hangup on your part. And (b) you've actually been on a bit of a reification of the activity of reifying for a while. It seems to be the flavor of the moment. Love you man. really. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2012 14:05:27 GMT -5
gotta run folks --happy easter! hope you find some magic eggs.
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Post by andrew on Apr 6, 2012 14:14:56 GMT -5
I paused for thought, so I wouldnt say Im certain. However, I have seen E use language in a particular way over and over and over and over again which suggests that either a) he thinks we are all total newbies, or b) he has fallen into a reification trap. I think its probably a mix of both. I think of enigma as a projector mechanic. He gets everyone's projection working crystal clear. For example, on (a) above, I've seen you andrew talk alot about who is and who isn't newbies. I've wondered if that actually is a little of a hangup on your part. And (b) you've actually been a bit of a reification of the activity of reifying for a while. It seems to be the flavor of the moment. Love you man. really. I have been exploring the reification issue a fair bit lately Ive noticed, and I do have a theory about why that might be, though I really might be totally wrong. Although I really was stuck in reification about 8/9 years ago, there has still been a movement since then to explore the non-dual paradigm. I feel that Ive had enough of abstraction, of the insanity of talking about something that doesnt even exist....Ive had enough of the non-dual paradigm, which really is a crutch in its own way. I feel like Im coming to an end of something, that my forum days might be coming to an end, and because of that, I dont have a sense of wanting to play around in quite the same way as I was a few months ago. As I said, could be wrong though. As for the newbie thing, I dont see that as an issue because I dont see any of the regulars as total newbies on this forum. Oh, have a great easter to you too. |
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Post by enigma on Apr 6, 2012 14:35:35 GMT -5
That was my point. The only reason I made the distinction is because you implied negative feelings involve resistance (and therefore get our attention) and positive feelings don't. I'm saying positive feelings get just as much attention. Once again, if you don't notice something it's not a fact of your reality. You can relegate stuff to the unconscious, but you have to notice it's there before you can even do that. The positive feelings do get clung to but only out of fear. So if we are clinging to positive feelings there is some resistance/fear present. There has to be or you wouldn't know you were having a positive experience. The only way you know it's a positive experience is to compare it in some way to your negative experiences. I don't think we're disagreeing here, just sayin. I think you said it yourself; no resistance, no allowance. If so, it cannot be the peace everybody knows. |
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Post by andrew on Apr 6, 2012 14:40:06 GMT -5
The positive feelings do get clung to but only out of fear. So if we are clinging to positive feelings there is some resistance/fear present. There has to be or you wouldn't know you were having a positive experience. The only way you know it's a positive experience is to compare it in some way to your negative experiences. I don't think we're disagreeing here, just sayin. I think you said it yourself; no resistance, no allowance. If so, it cannot be the peace everybody knows. It is the peace that everyone knows, we just would no longer know it (or about it). It would be peace without recognition of peace, love without recognition of love, joy without recognition of joy. A given. No more noticing it, no more comparing. I agree we are not disagreeing on the other bit. |
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Post by enigma on Apr 6, 2012 14:54:44 GMT -5
Even if that's what they see, so what? When you see someone 'separating themselves out from you', the intelligent, insightful, intuitive response is to attack, degrade, call names and just generally melt down? I may be attacking and degrading somewhat, but Im not melting down. I just think its time you got over the B.S. I think its time you took a look at what many peeps have said to you in recent years, its not all about 'their unconsciousness'! They all pretty much say something different, depending on what their personal issues are. Of course there are some common themes used to make me bad and wrong. Some point to how many others have made me bad and wrong as proof that I must be bad and wrong. That one isn't particularly imaginative. |
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Post by enigma on Apr 6, 2012 15:00:55 GMT -5
The peace that "we all know" is defined by non-peace. I would say the peace we all know about is defined by adversity and conflict. If there was no more adversity and conflict there would only be peace but without the knowing about it. And so that peace would not be experienced. PEACE is something else. |
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Post by andrew on Apr 6, 2012 15:04:18 GMT -5
I would say the peace we all know about is defined by adversity and conflict. If there was no more adversity and conflict there would only be peace but without the knowing about it. And so that peace would not be experienced. PEACE is something else. Yes, it would be experienced because its the same darn peace. It would just be a given in our experience, it wouldnt be noticed. There are not 2 different peace's! Its the same darn peace whether we notice it or not. |
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Post by question on Apr 6, 2012 15:16:20 GMT -5
Lol, he is on again about the Peace (capital pee) that passeth all understandingeth? I've destroyed his precious Peace idea at least twice already, in meticulous detail, but he doesn't care. This guy, he simply never learns.
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Post by silence on Apr 6, 2012 16:01:31 GMT -5
Lol, he is on again about the Peace (capital pee) that passeth all understandingeth? I've destroyed his precious Peace idea at least twice already, in meticulous detail, but he doesn't care. This guy, he simply never learns. I'm guessing it wasn't too difficult to destroy considering it's stated right off the bat that it can't be understood. |
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Post by andrew on Apr 6, 2012 16:05:53 GMT -5
Lol, he is on again about the Peace (capital pee) that passeth all understandingeth? I've destroyed his precious Peace idea at least twice already, in meticulous detail, but he doesn't care. This guy, he simply never learns. I'm guessing it wasn't too difficult to destroy considering it's stated right off the bat that it can't be understood. You're still missing the point. |
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Post by question on Apr 6, 2012 16:32:03 GMT -5
Lol, he is on again about the Peace (capital pee) that passeth all understandingeth? I've destroyed his precious Peace idea at least twice already, in meticulous detail, but he doesn't care. This guy, he simply never learns. I'm guessing it wasn't too difficult to destroy considering it's stated right off the bat that it can't be understood. Oh yeah, right, I forgot... it was supposed to be merely a pointer to something unimaginable. Gosh, such a difficult fate his must be... constantly pointing to the moon with the best of intentions and all everyone does is look at his finger. Poor Phillip, the saviour of mankind, misunderstood, ridiculed, nailed to the cross. Well, do not worry, dear apostle, it's easter time, and it comes with a happy end. No matter what happens, he will always be back to the anonymous online interwebs, spamming about unfathomabubble Peaces. |
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Post by enigma on Apr 6, 2012 17:48:30 GMT -5
There has to be or you wouldn't know you were having a positive experience. The only way you know it's a positive experience is to compare it in some way to your negative experiences. I don't think we're disagreeing here, just sayin. I think you said it yourself; no resistance, no allowance. If so, it cannot be the peace everybody knows. It is the peace that everyone knows, we just would no longer know it (or about it). It would be peace without recognition of peace, love without recognition of love, joy without recognition of joy. A given. No more noticing it, no more comparing. I agree we are not disagreeing on the other bit. There's the possibility that we're talking about the same thing and I just can't rez with your ideas of not knowing, realizing or noticing and being unconscious. PEACE is the transcendence of the conceptual ideas of peace and turmoil, as I've said many times. It's an absence of the one who is seeking one and avoiding the other, as I've said. It's the collapse of that entire paradigm into a little greasy spot, as I've said. Rather than something reificationated, it's the absence of the head banging, as I've said. Could you be ignoring everything I've ever said and latching onto the capitalized word 'PEACE' like a rabid bulldog? Yes, that sounds like you. As for your terminology, that PEACE is realized, noticed, known from a position of total consciousness. PEACE is a pointer to that absence. I'm not reifying nuthin. |
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Post by enigma on Apr 6, 2012 17:57:33 GMT -5
Lol, he is on again about the Peace (capital pee) that passeth all understandingeth? I've destroyed his precious Peace idea at least twice already, in meticulous detail, but he doesn't care. This guy, he simply never learns. I'm guessing it wasn't too difficult to destroy considering it's stated right off the bat that it can't be understood. Yeah, a little reason, logic and a splash of empirical data should do the trick to destroy what passes understanding.  |
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Post by andrew on Apr 6, 2012 18:14:48 GMT -5
It is the peace that everyone knows, we just would no longer know it (or about it). It would be peace without recognition of peace, love without recognition of love, joy without recognition of joy. A given. No more noticing it, no more comparing. I agree we are not disagreeing on the other bit. There's the possibility that we're talking about the same thing and I just can't rez with your ideas of not knowing, realizing or noticing and being unconscious. PEACE is the transcendence of the conceptual ideas of peace and turmoil, as I've said many times. It's an absence of the one who is seeking one and avoiding the other, as I've said. It's the collapse of that entire paradigm into a little greasy spot, as I've said. Rather than something reificationated, it's the absence of the head banging, as I've said. Could you be ignoring everything I've ever said and latching onto the capitalized word 'PEACE' like a rabid bulldog? Yes, that sounds like you. As for your terminology, that PEACE is realized, noticed, known from a position of total consciousness. PEACE is a pointer to that absence. I'm not reifying nuthin. Yes, you are hopelessly and utterly reifying but you just cant seem to see it. What you are calling PEACE is a fairytale told by pointerers for the benefit of the so called unconscious. I am in two minds about the value of that fairytale, even for the newbies, as it creates another layer of delusion. All humans experience the same things....peace, love, joy, ease, anger, sadness, shame, guilt, fear. There is no special thing that the enlightened experience. They just experience less intensity of clinging, attachment, resistance and aversion. There is no Peace and there is no PEACE, there is just the peace that all humans know, and if there was no aversion/negativity, this peace wouldnt be noticed, or thought about, or spoken of....it would be a fact of our reality/experience. Stop telling yourself fairy tales. You cant know what this Peace or PEACE is because its a made up thing. It doesnt exist. The only peace you know is the same peace that everyone knows. You're thinking that you have a reference for something different and it creates a separation....a club....a boundary and a persona. |
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