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Post by silence on Apr 6, 2012 11:20:43 GMT -5
But he did come up with an effective method. There are thousands that have used the Sedona Method and have got good results from using it. Tolle also offered methods that peeps have got good results from using. I don't know what "good results" means. If anybody has actually found freedom from suffering using either of those methods, we can have a look. 'Good results' usually means 'good for ego'. Yep. |
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Post by andrew on Apr 6, 2012 11:20:49 GMT -5
And of course the good feelings...the joy, the bliss, the peace, the ease....they dont demand that we do something 'about'. They dont demand our attention as such because by definition they arise when there is no resisting happening at all.....and actually we only notice them because we also experience negative emotions. The good feelings arise naturally as a result of being fully in the flow. If we were fully in the flow all the time, we wouldnt notice them. They would be a given in our experience, a fact of our reality. The 'good' feelings aren't demanding your attention because mind is much more interested in seeking out its next problem. The biggest and most consuming problem is trying to operate the balance beam which results in constant failure. To which you must constantly add dozens of new strategies to help with and then strategies to help with the frustration of failing to meet your expectations of being in 'the flow'. Forget the flow. The flow is another ideal of mind to keep you tripping over your own shoes until the end of time. Im happy to forget 'the flow', it was just a pointer. The good feelings are noticed only because we notice the bad ones...the good feelings dont demand our attention as such and thats because they are not born out of resistance. The negative ones do demand our attention and are born out of resistance. If there were no negative feelings we wouldnt notice the good ones, they would be a fact of our reality. |
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Post by silence on Apr 6, 2012 11:34:08 GMT -5
The 'good' feelings aren't demanding your attention because mind is much more interested in seeking out its next problem. The biggest and most consuming problem is trying to operate the balance beam which results in constant failure. To which you must constantly add dozens of new strategies to help with and then strategies to help with the frustration of failing to meet your expectations of being in 'the flow'. Forget the flow. The flow is another ideal of mind to keep you tripping over your own shoes until the end of time. Im happy to forget 'the flow', it was just a pointer. The good feelings are noticed only because we notice the bad ones...the good feelings dont demand our attention as such and thats because they are not born out of resistance. The negative ones do demand our attention and are born out of resistance. If there were no negative feelings we wouldnt notice the good ones, they would be a fact of our reality. I don't really know what all of this means. I'm just telling you that it it's totally unnecessary to call feelings good, bad, negative, positive. In order to do so you have to tell yourself other stories about how those bad feelings are born out of resistance which keeps the "Mr. Fix it" otherwise known as you or ego employed. The whole notion that all of this is simply happening to nobody while all these techniques are employed is rubbish. The very movement and energy behind meeting your experience with endless labels and toolboxes is you. |
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Post by enigma on Apr 6, 2012 11:40:37 GMT -5
And of course the good feelings...the joy, the bliss, the peace, the ease....they dont demand that we do something 'about'. They dont demand our attention as such because by definition they arise when there is no resisting happening at all.....and actually we only notice them because we also experience negative emotions. The good feelings arise naturally as a result of being fully in the flow. If we were fully in the flow all the time, we wouldnt notice them. They would be a given in our experience, a fact of our reality. The 'good' feelings aren't demanding your attention because mind is much more interested in seeking out its next problem. The biggest and most consuming problem is trying to operate the balance beam which results in constant failure. To which you must constantly add dozens of new strategies to help with and then strategies to help with the frustration of failing to meet your expectations of being in 'the flow'. Forget the flow. The flow is another ideal of mind to keep you tripping over your own shoes until the end of time. That's it! |
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Post by andrew on Apr 6, 2012 11:41:41 GMT -5
Im happy to forget 'the flow', it was just a pointer. The good feelings are noticed only because we notice the bad ones...the good feelings dont demand our attention as such and thats because they are not born out of resistance. The negative ones do demand our attention and are born out of resistance. If there were no negative feelings we wouldnt notice the good ones, they would be a fact of our reality. I don't really know what all of this means. I'm just telling you that it it's totally unnecessary to call feelings good, bad, negative, positive. In order to do so you have to tell yourself other stories about how those bad feelings are born out of resistance which keeps the "Mr. Fix it" otherwise known as you or ego employed. The whole notion that all of this is simply happening to nobody while all these techniques are employed is rubbish. The very movement and energy behind meeting your experience with endless labels and toolboxes is you. Again Im happy to dispense with those labels, they are just the easiest ones to use. The point is that duality is our experience and is noticed, and we only notice one side of the duality BECAUSE we notice the other side. One of these sides is born out of resistance and aversion. If there was no more resistance and aversion the experience of duality would collapse, and the side of the duality that is NOT connected to resistance and aversion would become a fact of our reality, and a given in our experience. It would no longer be noticed. There would be no more noticing! Noticing only happens for as long as there is resistance and aversion. Its much easier to talk about this using conventional labels like good and bad, positive and negative, love and fear, but as you can see its not totally necessary. |
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Post by enigma on Apr 6, 2012 11:53:30 GMT -5
The truth is that you never get to be a special person. The truth is that you can play all sorts of games to make yourself feel like a person who has made progress, a person who is more spiritual and sees through all the BS that others talk about, a person who is almost there, but in the end it's the same as making more money or being loved by everybody. It still doesn't satisfy. In fact, I'm beginning to suspect it's just making you mean and condescending. I agree we never get to be a special person, thats my point entirely! You continuously separate yourself out from others through reification, and peeps do that when they want to be a special person. Get over it. Its very pretentious, and you've been called out on it consistently by many people in the last 3 years. I rarely talk about myself at all. It's a subject I have very little interest in. Peeps like you and Tath and Michaelsees and Arisha are far more interested in 'separating me out from others' than I am. Even then, it's still not about me. |
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Post by silence on Apr 6, 2012 11:55:30 GMT -5
Again Im happy to dispense with those labels, they are just the easiest ones to use. Yes, I realize that. I'm saying you can stop using labels altogether for how you feel. The point is that duality is our experience and is noticed, and we only notice one side of the duality BECAUSE we notice the other side. One of these sides is born out of resistance and aversion. If there was no more resistance and aversion the experience of duality would collapse, and the side of the duality that is NOT connected to resistance and aversion would be a fact of our reality. Forget what you think would happen. The hypothetical's are trapping you. You're experiencing a whole category of feeling that's arising out of resistance because you're experiencing your knowledge about those feelings. The knowledge that tells you in so many words that they're a mistake or a problem and need to be fixed. The feelings aren't the problem. You've made them the problem. You ARE the resistance and aversion. All that has to be done is to just stop. The dilemma is that you have zero interest in doing so. |
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Post by andrew on Apr 6, 2012 12:00:24 GMT -5
I agree we never get to be a special person, thats my point entirely! You continuously separate yourself out from others through reification, and peeps do that when they want to be a special person. Get over it. Its very pretentious, and you've been called out on it consistently by many people in the last 3 years. I rarely talk about myself at all. It's a subject I have very little interest in. Peeps like you and Tath and Michaelsees and Arisha are far more interested in 'separating me out from others' than I am. Even then, it's still not about me. You constantly separate yourself out from others, you just cant see that you do it. You are even doing it here in a subtle way. Is it possible that these people you listed are saying something to you worth listening to? Then there were the peeps on the other forum. |
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Post by therealfake on Apr 6, 2012 12:03:05 GMT -5
I don't really know what all of this means. I'm just telling you that it it's totally unnecessary to call feelings good, bad, negative, positive. In order to do so you have to tell yourself other stories about how those bad feelings are born out of resistance which keeps the "Mr. Fix it" otherwise known as you or ego employed. The whole notion that all of this is simply happening to nobody while all these techniques are employed is rubbish. The very movement and energy behind meeting your experience with endless labels and toolboxes is you. Again Im happy to dispense with those labels, they are just the easiest ones to use. The point is that duality is our experience and is noticed, and we only notice one side of the duality BECAUSE we notice the other side. One of these sides is born out of resistance and aversion. If there was no more resistance and aversion the experience of duality would collapse, and the side of the duality that is NOT connected to resistance and aversion would become a fact of our reality, and a given in our experience. It would no longer be noticed. There would be no more noticing! Noticing only happens for as long as there is resistance and aversion. Its much easier to talk about this using conventional labels like good and bad, positive and negative, love and fear, but as you can see its not totally necessary. For someone who is only interested in appearances Andrew. You've sure got a lot of 'interest' in non-appearing 'noticing'... ;D |
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Post by andrew on Apr 6, 2012 12:07:37 GMT -5
Again Im happy to dispense with those labels, they are just the easiest ones to use. Yes, I realize that. I'm saying you can stop using labels altogether for how you feel. The point is that duality is our experience and is noticed, and we only notice one side of the duality BECAUSE we notice the other side. One of these sides is born out of resistance and aversion. If there was no more resistance and aversion the experience of duality would collapse, and the side of the duality that is NOT connected to resistance and aversion would be a fact of our reality. Forget what you think would happen. The hypothetical's are trapping you. You're experiencing a whole category of feeling that's arising out of resistance because you're experiencing your knowledge about those feelings. The knowledge that tells you in so many words that they're a mistake or a problem and need to be fixed. The feelings aren't the problem. You've made them the problem. You ARE the resistance and aversion. All that has to be done is to just stop. The dilemma is that you have zero interest in doing so. You cant stop using labels for how you feel, because feelings are noticed. In the moment of the noticing they are labelled in a very subtle way. All noticing is labelling. Im just using convenient labels that we all know, I find it slightly odd that you DONT want me to use labels there. I will say again, I am not talking about a problem here. Im simply talking about what it means to be humanly experiencing. Neither am I offering ANY solution here as to how to fix something. Im quite simply describing. I will say again... The idea that the enlightened experience or feel something that the unenlightened have no reference for is false. All humans experience aversion, and this aversion is noticed and demands a response. The bodymind is programmed to deal with aversion (and there are many ways of dealing with it). It is BECAUSE we experience aversion that we also notice the 'good' feelings that arise when there is no aversion/resistance i.e. when we are in allowance. If there was no aversion/resistance we would not actually notice the 'good' feelings either, they would be a fact of reality. In simple terms I am saying that the good feelings are a constant, and are always experienced to some degree. However, they are only noticed because we also experience and notice aversion. This really isnt that hard! |
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Post by enigma on Apr 6, 2012 12:10:02 GMT -5
The 'good' feelings aren't demanding your attention because mind is much more interested in seeking out its next problem. The biggest and most consuming problem is trying to operate the balance beam which results in constant failure. To which you must constantly add dozens of new strategies to help with and then strategies to help with the frustration of failing to meet your expectations of being in 'the flow'. Forget the flow. The flow is another ideal of mind to keep you tripping over your own shoes until the end of time. Im happy to forget 'the flow', it was just a pointer. The good feelings are noticed only because we notice the bad ones...the good feelings dont demand our attention as such and thats because they are not born out of resistance. The good feelings get just as much attention as the bad. We seek them out, immerse ourselves in them, try to prolong them, and cling to them. The clinging is not less problematic than the resistance. Right, there wouldn't be any feeling, which means they wouldn't be a fact of our reality. PEACE and LOVE don't refer to those dualistic feelings. |
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Post by andrew on Apr 6, 2012 12:10:13 GMT -5
Again Im happy to dispense with those labels, they are just the easiest ones to use. The point is that duality is our experience and is noticed, and we only notice one side of the duality BECAUSE we notice the other side. One of these sides is born out of resistance and aversion. If there was no more resistance and aversion the experience of duality would collapse, and the side of the duality that is NOT connected to resistance and aversion would become a fact of our reality, and a given in our experience. It would no longer be noticed. There would be no more noticing! Noticing only happens for as long as there is resistance and aversion. Its much easier to talk about this using conventional labels like good and bad, positive and negative, love and fear, but as you can see its not totally necessary. For someone who is only interested in appearances Andrew. You've sure got a lot of 'interest' in non-appearing 'noticing'... ;D Yes. Though I am only talking about what is perceivable and experience-able. |
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Post by andrew on Apr 6, 2012 12:13:58 GMT -5
Im happy to forget 'the flow', it was just a pointer. The good feelings are noticed only because we notice the bad ones...the good feelings dont demand our attention as such and thats because they are not born out of resistance. The good feelings get just as much attention as the bad. We seek them out, immerse ourselves in them, try to prolong them, and cling to them. The clinging is not less problematic than the resistance. Right, there wouldn't be any feeling, which means they wouldn't be a fact of our reality. PEACE and LOVE don't refer to those dualistic feelings. More reification. You cant stop! Clinging and resistance are the same thing really, and I agree that people cling to the good and the bad, but IF they are clinging to the good then there is resistance/fear present. Ease, peace and joy are simply what we notice to be good BECAUSE we notice aversion. The bodymind system demands that we notice aversion. If there was no aversion, resistance, clinging...the good feelings of peace, joy, bliss, ease would not be noticed, they would be a given in our experience. A fact of our reality. If this was the case there would be nothing to do but create and express. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2012 12:14:47 GMT -5
I just heard the other day that a somewhat common thread of experience with serial killers is that they experience a supersatisfying amount of Peace, just after a killing.
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Post by Beingist on Apr 6, 2012 12:16:25 GMT -5
I don't even particularly have any issue with anger whatsoever. It rises up from time to time in me and if I don't attach a story to it, it moves on. It's an expression and movement of energy. Reaching for my toolbox to fix it is precisely what keeps it present. I have no interest in either ridding myself of it or allowing it. It just doesn't matter anymore. It has nothing to do with non-dual mumbo jumbo or anything. Quite plainly, there just isn't any interest in being the middle man of thought/feeling and as a result what arises is allowed to bloom in entirety and move right along. Precisement. And, I would add, it's the same for every emotion you can think of -- it's only a problem, if you make it one. Just allow it to happen, (heck, sometimes, I even welcome it). |
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