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Post by andrew on Feb 23, 2012 15:50:43 GMT -5
Its just a vibrational/calibration thing. To this bodymind, meat is poisonous. It physically rejects meat. If you were more connected, you would probably experience the same thing, but because you only see human adults suffering, you basically alienate yourself from Life. Do you buy free range or battery farm eggs? You see yourself as better than others here. You calibrate higher, align with Arisha's moral focus and point a finger at those who call themselves spiritual but don't align with your 'spiritual values'. It's not a healthy direction for you to go. Well, the truth is that right at this moment, I may well actually see myself as better than you. But I havent claimed to be above seeing myself as better than people! And yes, I do resonate with what Arisha has been bringing to the forum, I think it brings balance to a kind of moral vacuum that is often advocated. Call this projection if you like, but what I see in you lately is a lot of hypocrisy, and a stooping to low levels of integrity in arguing your case. Battery or free range? |
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Post by enigma on Feb 23, 2012 15:55:40 GMT -5
Whose to say that Nirvana isn't right here, right now? That's been my take, anyway. B: Your take is pointing in the right direction. The difficulty with Nirvana being in the ascension to the 5th dimension is the same as it being in heaven; it puts salvation in the imaginary future, and so we're never quite there yet. Just a little further. Need to raise my vibrations a little higher, get to Pure Buddhahood, find the right strategy to release the need to need the needing. It's the mentality of becoming that denies Being, the hope of Truth in the future that denies the living Truth right now. |
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Post by andrew on Feb 23, 2012 16:01:09 GMT -5
B: Your take is pointing in the right direction. The difficulty with Nirvana being in the ascension to the 5th dimension is the same as it being in heaven; it puts salvation in the imaginary future, and so we're never quite there yet. Just a little further. Need to raise my vibrations a little higher, get to Pure Buddhahood, find the right strategy to release the need to need the needing. It's the mentality of becoming that denies Being, the hope of Truth in the future that denies the living Truth right now. Part of being human right now is to idealize and this will happen for as long as there is a conscious experience of contrast. You idealize too, I am just aware that I do it, and play with this aspect of the human experience purposefully. |
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Post by Beingist on Feb 23, 2012 16:16:36 GMT -5
No, I didn't. Why so much flak, then, especially about it being a tautology, and all? But, nevermind. It doesn't really matter, anyway. I'll just stay glad, for now, that someone else said it, too. Because of the way you were using it. You derived some conclusions from a couple of precepts or whatever they were. I've forgotten how it goes now, but I saw it as erroneous. Okay, well, as long as you don't see it is as erroneous now, everything's cool, because that's been the basis of my philosophy for quite a long time(18 years, in fact. Though, to be sure, what has changed over time, I suppose, is my understanding and application of it, which was more recently made crystal clear, after hearing Adya advise to "allow everything to be just as it is"). |
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Post by enigma on Feb 23, 2012 17:39:56 GMT -5
Because of the way you were using it. You derived some conclusions from a couple of precepts or whatever they were. I've forgotten how it goes now, but I saw it as erroneous. Okay, well, as long as you don't see it is as erroneous now, everything's cool, because that's been the basis of my philosophy for quite a long time(18 years, in fact. Though, to be sure, what has changed over time, I suppose, is my understanding and application of it, which was more recently made crystal clear, after hearing Adya advise to "allow everything to be just as it is"). Oh, yeah, it's still erroneous. Hehe. |
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Post by Beingist on Feb 23, 2012 17:44:37 GMT -5
Okay, well, as long as you don't see it is as erroneous now, everything's cool, because that's been the basis of my philosophy for quite a long time(18 years, in fact. Though, to be sure, what has changed over time, I suppose, is my understanding and application of it, which was more recently made crystal clear, after hearing Adya advise to "allow everything to be just as it is"). Oh, yeah, it's still erroneous. Hehe. Okay, well, we'll have to save that for another day. Right now, I really don't care if you think it's erroneous, or not. ;D |
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Post by silence on Feb 23, 2012 18:11:36 GMT -5
You see yourself as better than others here. You calibrate higher, align with Arisha's moral focus and point a finger at those who call themselves spiritual but don't align with your 'spiritual values'. It's not a healthy direction for you to go. Well, the truth is that right at this moment, I may well actually see myself as better than you. But I havent claimed to be above seeing myself as better than people! And yes, I do resonate with what Arisha has been bringing to the forum, I think it brings balance to a kind of moral vacuum that is often advocated. Call this projection if you like, but what I see in you lately is a lot of hypocrisy, and a stooping to low levels of integrity in arguing your case. Battery or free range? I think it's an important step if you want to call it for people to see that morality isn't inherent to life. I also wouldn't doubt for a moment that some use this as a rationalization for all sorts of behavior. I don't actually see that here though nor do I see anyone advocating a moral vacuum. I do see some folks really soaking in that realization though because for some that saw themselves especially moral or spiritual or whatever, the dissolution of all these moral concepts is very freeing. |
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Post by andrew on Feb 23, 2012 18:20:06 GMT -5
Well, the truth is that right at this moment, I may well actually see myself as better than you. But I havent claimed to be above seeing myself as better than people! And yes, I do resonate with what Arisha has been bringing to the forum, I think it brings balance to a kind of moral vacuum that is often advocated. Call this projection if you like, but what I see in you lately is a lot of hypocrisy, and a stooping to low levels of integrity in arguing your case. Battery or free range? I think it's an important step if you want to call it for people to see that morality isn't inherent to life. I also wouldn't doubt for a moment that some use this as a rationalization for all sorts of behavior. I don't actually see that here though nor do I see anyone advocating a moral vacuum. I do see some folks really soaking in that realization though because for some that saw themselves especially moral or spiritual or whatever, the dissolution of all these moral concepts is very freeing. I remember seeing that morality isnt inherent to life and I agree it was important, and freeing. However, it was just a step, and in my opinion there is a greater freedom beyond that in which we return to morality in a new way. What I have been seeing here is an 'over-soaking' in the realization you spoke of, and its kinda ugly - ''lay back and enjoy it'' springs to mind. Its also for this reason that I have found Arisha's 'take' very welcome. |
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Post by silence on Feb 23, 2012 18:33:35 GMT -5
I think it's an important step if you want to call it for people to see that morality isn't inherent to life. I also wouldn't doubt for a moment that some use this as a rationalization for all sorts of behavior. I don't actually see that here though nor do I see anyone advocating a moral vacuum. I do see some folks really soaking in that realization though because for some that saw themselves especially moral or spiritual or whatever, the dissolution of all these moral concepts is very freeing. I remember seeing that morality isnt inherent to life and I agree it was important, and freeing. However, it was just a step, and in my opinion there is a greater freedom beyond that in which we return to morality in a new way. What I have been seeing here is an 'over-soaking' in the realization you spoke of, and its kinda ugly - ''lay back and enjoy it'' springs to mind. Its also for this reason that I have found Arisha's 'take' very welcome. Yes, there's nothing end-all about seeing this. over-soaking is really impossible for either you or I to determine. I can see where folks who really really struggled with their identity being a highly moral person likely needing to look a few times before it's really 'totally accepted'. The only way I see someone feeling the need to come back to these concepts is if there's still a very strong sense of division in their experience. In other words, if many other illusions are still being clung to and their sense of morality which is largely just guilt in different costumes is the only thing seemingly keeping them together. There isn't any motivation to one who is at peace to need to reinforce a bunch of ideas to keep the mind/body in order. I'd say Arisha would also fall into the over-soaking category if you wish to call it that as she has been very actively exploring the boundaries of her moral concepts and identity. She merely seems to be exploring it in a different way than the members here who are glimpsing at seeing that something hasn't gone 'wrong' even in the midst of atrocities. |
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Post by andrew on Feb 23, 2012 18:37:37 GMT -5
I remember seeing that morality isnt inherent to life and I agree it was important, and freeing. However, it was just a step, and in my opinion there is a greater freedom beyond that in which we return to morality in a new way. What I have been seeing here is an 'over-soaking' in the realization you spoke of, and its kinda ugly - ''lay back and enjoy it'' springs to mind. Its also for this reason that I have found Arisha's 'take' very welcome. Yes, there's nothing end-all about seeing this. over-soaking is really impossible for either you or I to determine. I can see where folks who really really struggled with their identity being a highly moral person likely needing to look a few times before it's really 'totally accepted'. The only way I see someone feeling the need to come back to these concepts is if there's still a very strong sense of division in their experience. In other words, if many other illusions are still being clung to and their sense of morality which is largely just guilt in different costumes is the only thing seemingly keeping them together. There isn't any motivation to one who is at peace to need to reinforce a bunch of ideas to keep the mind/body in order. I'd say Arisha would also fall into the over-soaking category if you wish to call it that as she has been very actively exploring the boundaries of her moral concepts and identity. She merely seems to be exploring it in a different way than the members here who are glimpsing at seeing that something hasn't gone 'wrong' even in the midst of atrocities. Well, Im happy to stick to my opinion that there is an over-soaking in, (and attachment to) the realization you spoke of (though I admit that I dont 'know'). With regard to Arisha, Im not going to say more than say that her take has been welcome. |
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Post by silence on Feb 23, 2012 18:49:29 GMT -5
Yes, there's nothing end-all about seeing this. over-soaking is really impossible for either you or I to determine. I can see where folks who really really struggled with their identity being a highly moral person likely needing to look a few times before it's really 'totally accepted'. The only way I see someone feeling the need to come back to these concepts is if there's still a very strong sense of division in their experience. In other words, if many other illusions are still being clung to and their sense of morality which is largely just guilt in different costumes is the only thing seemingly keeping them together. There isn't any motivation to one who is at peace to need to reinforce a bunch of ideas to keep the mind/body in order. I'd say Arisha would also fall into the over-soaking category if you wish to call it that as she has been very actively exploring the boundaries of her moral concepts and identity. She merely seems to be exploring it in a different way than the members here who are glimpsing at seeing that something hasn't gone 'wrong' even in the midst of atrocities. Well, Im happy to stick to my opinion that there is an over-soaking in, (and attachment to) the realization you spoke of (though I admit that I dont 'know'). With regard to Arisha, Im not going to say more than say that her take has been welcome. Sure, something hasn't gone wrong with Arisha's participation here either. It's likely there's probably at least a few people getting something from the morality talks. |
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Post by onehandclapping on Feb 24, 2012 1:03:53 GMT -5
And the wheels on the bus go round and round, round and round......jeez I'm getting dizzy. Oh look a giraffe!!! "Nope just another post by Andrew." Oops, my bad. It's gotta be all the circles we're going in the thread that messed my mind-body up so badly as to confuse the two.  |
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Post by andrew on Feb 24, 2012 2:57:49 GMT -5
You've certainly had some adventures! Thats a funny story, but I dont avoid meat on a principle, as I said I TRIED to eat it long after the bodymind was rejecting it. In the end, I surrendered to the bodymind. Yeah I guess. But what was so significant about this Andrew was that morning just a few minutes before meeting her I was walking on the bike path wondering what I was going to do. I said a prayer, "God your suppose to be taking care of me." That was it, I just knew everything was taken care of. That's why she meant something to me. Them days I didn't have any concepts of enlightenment. I read books before by J. Krishnamurti, Bhagavad-Gita, Conversations with God and some others but never really thought about enlightenment. That was before I read David Hawkins. I was living by my rudimentary understandings of the Tao. Thats cool. Very cool. |
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Post by merrick on Feb 24, 2012 3:21:30 GMT -5
I would never consider a bunch of enlightened masters as an example of singing in harmony. On the contrary. Each of them has an awful lot to say, expressing many different points of view, based on the way they themselves have reached self-realization  in their life-time, often even forgetting what other work or events had preceded it in a distant past. There is hardly any consensus to be found amongst such people. Merrick A group of self realized dudes may possibly enjoy exchanging recipes... Well, that's what I had in mind . [I also don't think a bunch of 'enlightened' masters is an example of singing in harmony. ;D The glee club was such an example. Not being American or British I didn't get the joke  . Merrick |
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Post by arisha on Feb 24, 2012 3:42:47 GMT -5
I feel I need to say more about the role of this moral issue in my life.
It first started when I was about 14, I think. I remember I had that thought that I should help everybody, and things like that. I don't know why. I was a normal person. Then I noticed that I always was rewarded for that: with good luck, often with very good luck. It went on like this. I felt some magic was happening. As I was interested in esoteric I was looking for info, I had some articles from the journal about yoga, and started practicing it. I tried to follow the instructions in the best possible way, Yama/Niyama as well. And I had a very quick result, an esoteric result. At that time I didn't know what it was. There was nobody who could tell me. Later I read in the book that it was Kundalini rising. At the time it happened I was scared, because it started every time I was lying in a certain position. That's why I advise everybody to start with Yama/Niyama if they are interested in the things. I started noticing that all I thought about, happened. I found jobs, good apartments for rent, met interesting people. For ex., once I went for a walk with my boy-friend, we were going without any plan, went to the park , sat on a bench. We saw a group of people, about 30 or 40, talking, one woman looked in our direction, and invited us to join them. Those people turned out to be psychics who were having their secret meetings in that park every week. Etc., etc.
My life wasn't always happy. But I noticed that every time I did something good I was rewarded again. You may think it's some fairy -tale, - the same feeling I always have. When I met that guy, MrG, a telepat, psychic, hypnotizer and clairvoyant, I was on the peak of that feeling. The moral issue was very important at that time. I felt MrG was checking my thoughts. I felt something may happen soon, and I tried to keep my thoughts in a very good state. Yes, something really happened. That mrG liked it very much that I was good enough, and chose me as his partner. Not in life. But on the Channel he made. A Telelathy Channel,- you may believe me or not. First he told me that he was going to make such a Channel ,- I had no idea at that time what he was going to do, how, and why. Then, when it started, I didn't like it at all. I was under his total control. It has been for 20 years already. That guy, MrG, did various things , various experiments with me on the Channel. Is still doing. I can do nothing against it. That guru, who was checking my thoughts at the beginning, if I was good enough, happened to be beyond good and bad himself. I think he has not killed me yet just because he needs me as his toy. He has a Meditation Club in Russia. I guess some people from his Club (and I know one more person who was made the same Channel) also have problems. This is how people may behave being beyond any moral rules. Nobody can check it up with MrG. He is really free to do what he wants. Being beyond good and bad.
So, the Universe had rewarded me till I met MrG. Now it is him who rewards me if I am in line with him , and punishes me when I do something wrong, that is against him. He told me that he himself is a part of some hierarchy. I don't know what their moral code is, but I guess they are also beyond good and bad, and can do what they want.
My aim is to share my experience where they listen to me, and on this forum I had to post about morality as people are sure there can be nothing wrong about being beyond morality and any rules. The things is that without control people may really start doing all sort of things, because they are humans, and not some higher beings. Maybe the Universe will punish MrG in the future, but now he has his time, and is confident about his powers. I don't know how he got his abilities. I know very little about the organization and structure of the Society he belongs to. But I am sure nothing of the kind could happen if it all was in the framework of the moral code, and control. I am not the only one who is in this situation. Now I know about other people's experiences which are of the same type, and it is taking place not only in Russia. Who knows what other societies or no-morality teachings exist, and what is going on there! Who, for ex., is reading this forum, and what kind of ideas may arise in the heads. I don't know why people are sure that nothing bad may happen somewhere with somebody just because they personally don't have any bad experiences with their beyond good and bad spirituality.
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in their life-time, often even forgetting what other work or events had preceded it in a distant past. There is hardly any consensus to be found amongst such people. 
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