GUIDANCE NEEDED PLEASE HELP!

[stylechild30]

hello,I am a bit of a lost soul and have been battling depression for a very long time now.I have this nagging feeling I should find a spiritual guru or teacher maybe even a retreat.Unfortunately i have NO CLUE where to start to even research a few options..Are there any legit sites that offer many great links?I realize there are alot of places that take advantage of ppl desperate to get help and I want something true and authentic,i am willing to travel for it.any and all advice would be greatly appreciated!I am falling apart

[stardustpilgrim]

Feb 14, 2012 17:22:41 GMT -5 stylechild30 said:

hello,I am a bit of a lost soul and have been battling depression for a very long time now.I have this nagging feeling I should find a spiritual guru or teacher maybe even a retreat.Unfortunately i have NO CLUE where to start to even research a few options..Are there any legit sites that offer many great links?I realize there are alot of places that take advantage of ppl desperate to get help and I want something true and authentic,i am willing to travel for it.any and all advice would be greatly appreciated!I am falling apart

stylechild30 ........ This would be my first recommendation. There is a very good book by St. John of the Cross called The Dark Night of the Soul. There are two nights, the first is the night of sense and the second is the night of spirit.

In it St. John of the Cross describes the difference between ordinary depression and the night of sense (the two can have similar symptoms). In the night of sense, God withdraws our affection for the things of the world, the purpose being so that we place all our affection upon God and God's will.

I was depressed for about 6-7 years, from about 1970-1976. From about about March of '75- March '76 I was very bad, pretty suicidal....at least on two different occasions for about a week each time. Life held no meaning for me. I worked very little during that year, just mostly some part-time work. For only a couple of weeks did I have a full-time job. Then in March '76 I found a teaching. It required being able to pay one's way in life (roof over head, clothes, food in belly). The next week I went out and found a job, a tree climber's helper. I figured I could do that, drag tree branches and chip them. I lapsed only a couple of days, did tree work for four years, worked my way to climber, then foreman of a crew.

I later found the book I mentioned, The Dark Night of the Soul. It is a map. It would have greatly helped if I had found it during those six years. I didn't have a conventional depression.....I had been experiencing the night of sense.

Now, if you get the book and read through the night of sense (the dark night of the spirit is much, much worse.... ....but comes later....), and it doesn't seem to fit you, you need to find a psychologist who has expertise in spiritual matters. I know a guy in Charlotte, NC, he might be able to recommend someone where you live........... Amazon will have the book ($4.00 postage will get it to you in 3-5 days, quicker is bigger bucks...I think that's called standard shipping). A local Barnes & Noble might or might not have it. The translation I have is by E. Allison Peers, but there have been later translations. The Dark Night of the Soul is actually a short poem, and the book is commentary on the poem. I'll copy the poem...shortly.....here.......

If the depression is psychological and not spiritual, you need to fix the psychological, first, and then pursue the spiritual (or do them simultaneously)........

Another excellent book I could recommend to anybody is called The Way to Love by Anthony de Mello. It has a lot of good info about our psychology.....from a spiritual standpoint. It's in an inexpensive pocket paperback, I think $7.95. I'd recommend reading it along with The Dark Night of the Soul.

I'll start a thread in the discussion section with poem....

Oh........you might be able to find The Dark Night of the Soul free online...........

sdp

[stylechild30]

1st of all THANK YOU for taking the time to reply to me!!
I will order the book on my kindle tomorrow.All I know is I have been depressed ever since i can remember.I have memories of writing suicide notes as early as 9.I have also struggled with addiction my whole life.I remember being 12 and stealing caffein pills from store and hiding in my closet taking a whole bottle to get high this was the beginning of a very long and ugly battle w/using drugs to cope..The depression has fluctuated in severity throughout my years but has always been there.I have tried therapy on and off w/no help,never tried meds until now(started taking welbutrin 4 wks ago,no help yet)I want to know why I have always felt so sad,in all my soul searching I don't feel like that answer has ever been clear..If it was'nt for my 7yr old son I would be in a VERY different place in life.Altough he keeps me going through the motions I am in a dark dark place and feel that if I don't do something extreme to try and seek answers and help he will no longer be enough to keep me a float.I am at a point where I am fearless and willing to try almost anything,including leaving the country.thanks again I can't wait to read the book.please keep the advice coming:-)

[andrew]

Hi Stylechild30,

Firstly to say that this forum is cool, but its somewhat narrow in its focus, it may be worth also exploring a bigger forum such as www.spiritualforums.com.

I dont know what you are familiar with or what you have tried but here are some suggestions for you to explore. With regard to teachings I would look at Abraham-Hicks (books or youtube) or Byron Katie (www.thework.com). A good meditation practice is useful, you could also try 'binaural beats'. Some kind of physical bodywork might be good like yoga. Also look at your diet, the food (and drink) we take in can very much affect our bodymind system, especially if you are sensitive. In addition, you could explore NLP, EFT and the Sedona Method. There are flower essences which can also be helpful and are fun to explore. Reiki can also help.

In summary, I dont think there is necessarily one single solution...peace and joy is a way of life and a way of being in the world. Its important to get clear as to what kind of life you would like, and the kind of person you would like to be and how you would like to relate to life. Abraham-Hicks can help you with that. There is so much to explore, and the exploration in itself is an adventure. Be open to changing your life. There is MUCH more that I could suggest, but I dont want to overload you with suggestions.

Best wishes,
Andrew

[sherry]

Dear one, you are not alone. So many of us need or have needed help.

I would like to recommend that you have a look at the Work of Bryon Katie (http://www.thework.com/index.php). There are a number of videos on her site as well as on youtube. You will also find guidelines for doing the work. She has a school for the work coming up quite soon - end of March in Los Angeles (http://www.thework.com/school.php). She also has books available such as Loving What Is.

hugging you.

[quinn]

I 'third' the recommendation of Byron Katie. You can also search YouTube for her videos.

I have also experienced depression for as long as I can remember - as you say, sometimes stronger, sometimes weaker. But a sadness was always running in the background no matter how it looked on the outside. And sometimes I wasn't functioning at all.

What got me to begin to climb out of that hole was Eckhart Tolle ("A New Earth") and Byron Katie. They're both very clear on showing how the mind works. Tolle, especially, clearly explains how we mistake the mind for who we are - something that might sound like gibberish right now, but is important to understand. Byron Katie has a very practical system for breaking apart beliefs that we may not even realize we have, but that are, in fact, running the 'depression'.

The third anchor for all of this was a meditation practice. Very hard at first, but so worthwhile. If you can find a local meditation group, that 's a great place to learn to settle so you can 'see' what's going on. And you might find out about some other teachers that would be right for you.

I wish you all the best.

[stylechild30]

it feels so good to know people are willing to take the time to write some guiding words just for me!
I will be checking out all the above ideas..Is there a retreat anyone knows of that is worth looking into?This may sound crazy but I was toying around with the idea of going out of the country finding a shaman and doing iowaska .Or even looking deeper into John of god and maybe going to him I once saw a 20/20 episode on him and wonder if he is the real deal?anyone have any feelings on those 2 ideas,am i crazy for wanting to try this?
as for meditation I once read about Transindental meditation(tm) and liked the concept,I tried to find someone to teach me how to practice tm but found that it was very expensive(i think it was around2-3k for learning program).Is there a place where i can learn tm and not have to pay a fortune?Altough I will definitely start with reading the above teaching my heart is nagging me to go somewhere and do something intense.I am just not sure what or where that thing is exactly.I feel like i'll know it when i find it.Altough I am not in practice of my spiritual side I have always felt very insightful in the matter.I have just chosen to block that side of me for many years now.xoxo

[quinn]

Generally speaking, the Buddhist teachers don't charge a lot. The Insight Meditation Society is in Barre, Mass - don't know if that's near you or not. You can check them out at dharma.org

There are different kinds of meditation. The one I practice is Vispassana, or insight meditation. You can google to find out the different kinds and see what sounds good to you.

Another great place that's not too expensive is Garrison Institute in New York. They hold a lot of retreats. And the food is fantastic - organic, local & delicious. garrisoninstitute.org

Sorry I only know the NorthEast US!!

[stardustpilgrim]

Hey stylechild30 ........... I can also recommend Byron Katie. She says ask yourself four questions. Very simple, very powerful. (I don't have her book, sorry, don't recall the questions. I'm sure they're on her web site).

I did the TM thing in the early '70's. I think then I paid $30.00. I did it for about a year, then learned other forms of meditation. In TM, they gave me a two-syllable sound to say, a mantra.

There is a Christian form of meditation called the Centering Prayer (resurrected by Thomas Keating). It has a very old history going back to at least the 3rd or 4th century, as the Jesus Prayer, AKA the Prayer of the Heart (sort of made famous by JD Salinger in some of his books). You pray, "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, Savior, have mercy on me a sinner". That's the longest version. It can be shortened in many ways, to Have mercy, or just Jesus. However, in any form of mantra meditation, the words are not the most important part. The words are just a reminder to use one's attention. You don't want the words to be like a song that gets stuck in your head. (IOW, if you just say words, it's just prayer, or not even that. If your attention is present, it becomes meditation).

Watching your breath is a simple form of meditation. Try it and see what happens. Whatever happens, when you realize you have stopped watching your breath, go back to watching your breath.

sdp

[stylechild30]

Thanks sdp!

I did'nt realize tm was such a simple teaching(not to say it is easy).When I read about it I almost felt like there was some secret trick that tm had that other meditations did'nt.The teacher I found in my area (through david lynch site) told me it was not possible to learn w/o a teacher.

The sad thing about my depression is that I am my ONLY true hurdle.I know I need to save myself yet in the past every time I am near a solution or positive step towards a solution or positive change,I stop and go further into my distress.I recently realized that this was because I have no memory of ever being truly happy,and the thought of being happy is FAR more scary to me then living in my sadness since the sadness is all I have ever known..It sounds so sick but at this point this is my challenge.I can come up with a 1,000 ways to change my life for the better,but until I can get over my fear of happiness I will never get out of this pathetic cycle.Thanks for listening guys! This is the 1st time I have ever communicated these thoughts out loud in any way,I guess thats a start right??

[andrew]

Hey stylechild, Im not sure if this will help or hinder, but I will take a chance

If you had absolutely no reference for happiness you wouldnt know you are depressed. It would be the complete norm for you. So you must have some slight and subtle sense of what its like to be happy. When we are in a depressed state it can be hard to remember times when we were happy, thats the nature of the depressed state. Its a gloomy state! In a depressed state, if we could easily remember times when we were happy, then we wouldnt be depressed! You may find though that in a happier state, you remember more times when you were happy. Again, thats kind of the nature of the state! I guess Im saying that you are not REALLY scared of being happy (although I understand it seems to you like you are), it only feels scary and like its a big deal because in your current general state, it seems like happiness is something brand new and unfamiliar. The truth is that you DO have a reference for happiness (otherwise you wouldnt know you are depressed), so there really is no need to be scared of being happy. Happiness is an easy and unproblematic state by definition.

Having said that, for all I know you have had a relatively miserable life, so please dont think that I am saying that I know that you have had a happy life! Im just saying that you do have some kind of a subtle reference for happiness and that when you feel happier you may remember other times when you were happy and see that happiness really isnt such a big deal.

Abraham-Hicks really is good at talking about stuff like this if you are interested. They will show you how to move up the emotional scale at a rate that is appropriate for you. Byron Katie is also worth mentioning again I feel.

Best wishes,
Andrew

[stylechild30]

Andrew,
What you say makes a lot of sense.I think I mis worded my statement.I mean I have never been happy for long periods of time.And the worst part is I DID NOT have a miserable life,actually had and have an amazing one.Which makes me feel even more guilty about being depressed as I feel like I have no major reason to beFor years I was seeking the answer to "why am I depressed" never really coming to a conclusion.I have since given up on that search and am focused on "How can I rid myself of this sadness".

Am I crazy for considering Ayahuasca, ,or a visit to John of God in brazil??

[andrew]

Feb 19, 2012 0:53:48 GMT -5 stylechild30 said:

Andrew,
What you say makes a lot of sense.I think I mis worded my statement.I mean I have never been happy for long periods of time.And the worst part is I DID NOT have a miserable life,actually had and have an amazing one.Which makes me feel even more guilty about being depressed as I feel like I have no major reason to beFor years I was seeking the answer to "why am I depressed" never really coming to a conclusion.I have since given up on that search and am focused on "How can I rid myself of this sadness".

Am I crazy for considering Ayahuasca, ,or a visit to John of God in brazil??

Ah, dont feel guilty, its quite normal to have down periods. I read a couple of months ago that the people who go through life most easily and happily arent those who never go into a spin or a down period, they are the ones who pull themselves out of the spin or down period quickly. Going through down periods is quite normal at this time. Its really what you do when you get into a bit of a spin that counts. As I said, Abraham-Hicks can give you some great tools to use. Sometimes finding out WHY can be somewhat counter productive. I saw a counsellor for a year and found out all about why I was depressing myself and delved into my problematic childhood (which really wasnt that bad compared to some peoples) and although there was some value in doing all that, I was really just as depressed a year later! Rather than exploring the depths of these things, sometimes its best just to learn some tools and use them. These days there are SO many good tools that dont necessarily require us to sit in a counsellor's chair for hours on end. Aside from Abraham-Hicks, there is EFT, NLP, Sedona Method, Byron Katie's work, meditation, binaural beats, bio-feedback....to name just a few. It can really be quite fun exploring all this....learning all about the spirit-mind-body connection.

I am familiar with John of God but not Ayahuasca. The reports I have heard about John of God have been good. However, thats quite drastic action to take. If you want to receive a healing then you could look at Spiritual Response Therapy....from my experience of it, its a very good modality. Maybe go and receive a few Reiki treatments as well, or even a good massage can lift the spirits. Yoga also good.

Have you thought about what you want your future to look like? Do you have a positive plan for the future? In my opinion its very helpful to have a sense of where you would like to go and who you would like to be, the kind of life you want, the kind of relationships you would like to have. In getting clear about what you want from life, even if its just very general, it enables us to face forward, and that is important, especially if you have been feeling a bit depressed lately. I might be wrong, but I dont think you need a magic solution, its more a case of exploring and learning some new tools, facing forward again, and enjoying the process and adventure.

Oh, by the way, asking yourself ''how can I get rid of the sadness?'' is not a helpful question to ask yourself, because more depression and sadness are created in the asking. Try.....''how many different ways are there for me to be happy?'' or ''what can I do now that will bring me untold joy'' or ''how much success and pleasure can I possibly stand?!'' or simply...''what is the next step for me in creating a life of happiness and joy?''. The questions we ask ourselves are really important because they determine the direction we are facing. Anthony Robbins talks well of this and might be worth watching on youtube.

[stardustpilgrim]

Feb 18, 2012 2:51:26 GMT -5 stylechild30 said:

Thanks sdp!

I did'nt realize tm was such a simple teaching(not to say it is easy).When I read about it I almost felt like there was some secret trick that tm had that other meditations did'nt.The teacher I found in my area (through david lynch site) told me it was not possible to learn w/o a teacher.

The sad thing about my depression is that I am my ONLY true hurdle.I know I need to save myself yet in the past every time I am near a solution or positive step towards a solution or positive change,I stop and go further into my distress.I recently realized that this was because I have no memory of ever being truly happy,and the thought of being happy is FAR more scary to me then living in my sadness since the sadness is all I have ever known..It sounds so sick but at this point this is my challenge.I can come up with a 1,000 ways to change my life for the better,but until I can get over my fear of happiness I will never get out of this pathetic cycle.Thanks for listening guys! This is the 1st time I have ever communicated these thoughts out loud in any way,I guess thats a start right??

Hey stylechild30 ....... Any TM teacher is going to tell you they are necessary. There's a guy named Herbert Benson who researched TM and developed meditation that gets the same results. His book is called The Relaxation Response. Don't put big bucks into TM.

Do you exercise? Someone has already mentioned it, but regular vigorous physical exercise of some sort is the quickest way I know of to get some relief from depression. Depression is as much physiological as mental/emotional, at least, as a way out, exercise is a good start. I'd say, start walking with ten minutes (if you are not in shape). Add five minutes a day. You will feel a little stronger each day. After about a week you will know when to start pushing yourself, you will start feeling strong. Start running some, alternating with walking. You need to get your heart rate up, and your breathing.

Work your way up to at least 45 minutes of vigorous walking and/or running at least 5-6 days a week. Take at least one day a week off. It's best not to take off two days in a row. ........If it's too cold where you live to be outside now, get a step-stool and step up and down-up and down. Alternate the feet you step up with. Trust me, just do it. Vigorous exercise will help you move away from the depression. It's a start anyway.
d

[stylechild30]

I'm sorry it took me a few days to get back on here.I know I sound like a broken record but THANK YOU all for taking the time to write your advices!!I think the reason I am looking for "that magic healing" is because I get it,I know exactly what I need to do to be happy,and if i really think about it,I know how to do it as well..Yet everyday I wake up and CHOOSE to be sad and not make any effort to save myself.That is my major problem,although I am really insightful,and ironically the person many fam and friends go to for help and advice.I don't do what I clearly know I need to to be happy or at least work towards it.THAT is the one thing i can't understand or "fix".I beat myself up everyday for wasting my life,I feel like I blinked and 10 years passed by and I dragged my feet through it.What the heck is wrong with me??How can i know what to do and how to do it and choose NOT to do it.The best way I can explain it is I am too Tired to bother.I know how it sounds but I have no other way to describe it!even w/all this knowledge I am my own worst enemy I and only I am standing in the way of my own life.WHY would anyone do this to themselves on purpose??!That don't know I am starting to think I am crazy!I live in a mind that knows better but does'nt do better.
so yeah if I felt like john of god or any other crazy thing actually had even a chance of working I would go exhausted and ready to surrender.as I am obviously not capable of helping myself.:-(