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Post by andrew on Feb 5, 2012 3:24:25 GMT -5
Knowing the Self (the unknowable) is not possible, it's the knower, not the imagined self that believes it can know the unknowable. Isn't the knower the imagined self?  Yes |
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Post by quinn on Feb 5, 2012 4:31:10 GMT -5
The mind can seem to obscure the truth but it can never truly do so. There may seem to be a very real process going on whereas the mind is loosening its grip. However, the obvious never becomes un-obvious. It can be seen right this moment if you wanted to see it more than the struggle, projection and grand stories you hold close. Silence, I get a little dismayed when I read this. It reminds me of my smoking dynamic - there's a me that wants to quit (because it's insane) and there's an apparently more influential me that doesn't want to quit (holds the 'smoker' persona close?). So the war continues and the split mind continues and it's annoying. The question becomes ... how does one want to quit? How does one no longer want to hold the struggle, projection and grand stories close? I seem to want to let them go, but apparently I don't really. |
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Post by andrew on Feb 5, 2012 5:02:18 GMT -5
The mind can seem to obscure the truth but it can never truly do so. There may seem to be a very real process going on whereas the mind is loosening its grip. However, the obvious never becomes un-obvious. It can be seen right this moment if you wanted to see it more than the struggle, projection and grand stories you hold close. How does one no longer want to hold the struggle, projection and grand stories close? I seem to want to let them go, but apparently I don't really. I agree. If we really didnt want to experience those things, we wouldnt. There is a positive benefit to experiencing those things, and that positive benefit could be many things though it could also be reduced down to just one thing. In this kind of situation I think it is helpful to have a compelling vision of who/what we want to be. It enables us to begin to get the same positive benefit in ways that are less......stressful! |
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Post by exactamente on Feb 5, 2012 5:33:58 GMT -5
Right, that's why we need to be Truthin instead of telling the Truth. This point gives rise to a question. What would it be like if everyone on here, or indeed in the entire world, was just 'truthing' all the time? Would the world be any different? It seems to me that most truthfull way to live is to remain utterly hypnotized by the illusion of duality to the point that the seeker thought never has a chance to arise. This just doesn't seem right to me though, as if that matters.... All I can say is that ponderizations like these are just not truthin' ;D |
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Post by andrew on Feb 5, 2012 7:05:52 GMT -5
This point gives rise to a question. What would it be like if everyone on here, or indeed in the entire world, was just 'truthing' all the time? Would the world be any different? It seems to me that most truthfull way to live is to remain utterly hypnotized by the illusion of duality to the point that the seeker thought never has a chance to arise. This just doesn't seem right to me though, as if that matters.... All I can say is that ponderizations like these are just not truthin' ;D Im now pondering what you are suggesting truthin' looks like. Care to elaborate? |
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Post by exactamente on Feb 5, 2012 7:28:26 GMT -5
All I can say is that ponderizations like these are just not truthin' ;D Im now pondering what you are suggesting truthin' looks like. Care to elaborate? It's about how you are seeing and not about what you are seeing. Therefore nouns are useless, which means talks about truth are useless. |
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Post by andrew on Feb 5, 2012 8:04:44 GMT -5
Im now pondering what you are suggesting truthin' looks like. Care to elaborate? It's about how you are seeing and not about what you are seeing. Therefore nouns are useless, which means talks about truth are useless. Okay thanks, yes I can relate to that. In which case, what are you suggesting that 'truthin' is exactly? |
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Post by exactamente on Feb 5, 2012 8:35:16 GMT -5
It's about how you are seeing and not about what you are seeing. Therefore nouns are useless, which means talks about truth are useless. Okay thanks, yes I can relate to that. In which case, what are you suggesting that 'truthin' is exactly? I can only tell you what it not is and that usually comes off as condescending, dismissive and all kinds of strange animosities...  |
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Post by quinn on Feb 5, 2012 8:38:52 GMT -5
[quote author=andrew board=misc thread=1933 post=42222 time=1328436138If we really didnt want to experience those things, we wouldnt. There is a positive benefit to experiencing those things, and that positive benefit could be many things though it could also be reduced down to just one thing. [/quote]
I'm pretty sure the 'positive benefit' is a misguided or delusional one, dontcha think?
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Post by andrew on Feb 5, 2012 8:45:16 GMT -5
Okay thanks, yes I can relate to that. In which case, what are you suggesting that 'truthin' is exactly? I can only tell you what it not is and that usually comes off as condescending, dismissive and all kinds of strange animosities... Why can you only tell me what it not is? Do you think that saying what it isnt is more true than saying what it is? Is saying what it is 'falsin' and saying what it isnt 'truthin'? If so, why? |
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Post by exactamente on Feb 5, 2012 8:48:56 GMT -5
I can only tell you what it not is and that usually comes off as condescending, dismissive and all kinds of strange animosities... Why can you only tell me what it not is? Do you think that saying what it isnt is more true than saying what it is? Is saying what it is 'falsin' and saying what it isnt 'truthin'? If so, why? Because it's not 'mind-ing' and the process of describing and telling is 'mind-ing'. |
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Post by zendancer on Feb 5, 2012 8:52:25 GMT -5
I can only tell you what it not is and that usually comes off as condescending, dismissive and all kinds of strange animosities... Why can you only tell me what it not is? Do you think that saying what it isnt is more true than saying what it is? Is saying what it is 'falsin' and saying what it isnt 'truthin'? If so, why? Okay. "Truthin'" is THIS, and THIS is a verb. Does that help? Truthin' doesn't look LIKE anything; it is unimaginable. |
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Post by andrew on Feb 5, 2012 8:54:15 GMT -5
[quote author=andrew board=misc thread=1933 post=42222 time=1328436138If we really didnt want to experience those things, we wouldnt. There is a positive benefit to experiencing those things, and that positive benefit could be many things though it could also be reduced down to just one thing. I'm pretty sure the 'positive benefit' is a misguided or delusional one, dontcha think?[/quote] Hmmm. I would say the strategy for achieving the positive benefit is misguided and delusional (and is usually conditioned). For example, making ourselves miserable in order to get security is kind of misguided and delusional. Or hurting ourselves in a masochistic way in order to experience pleasure is kind of misguided and delusional. There are better and more intelligent/healthy ways of meeting our basic needs than being miserable or hurting ourselves or stressing ourselves out over very little. All the conditioned patterns we run have a positive intent, the challenge is releasing the patterns, and I think its helpful to make the goal compelling as this basically incentivises the bodymind system and directs the brain towards new and better ways of meeting our basic needs. |
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Post by andrew on Feb 5, 2012 8:55:18 GMT -5
Why can you only tell me what it not is? Do you think that saying what it isnt is more true than saying what it is? Is saying what it is 'falsin' and saying what it isnt 'truthin'? If so, why? Because it's not 'mind-ing' and the process of describing and telling is 'mind-ing'. Wouldnt saying what it is or isnt be mind-ing? I'm struggling to see the difference. |
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Post by andrew on Feb 5, 2012 9:06:02 GMT -5
Why can you only tell me what it not is? Do you think that saying what it isnt is more true than saying what it is? Is saying what it is 'falsin' and saying what it isnt 'truthin'? If so, why? Okay. "Truthin'" is THIS, and THIS is a verb. Does that help? Truthin' doesn't look LIKE anything; it is unimaginable. I'm struggling to put the pieces together....I thought truthin' was a way of seeing (or how to see)? Based on this, maybe instead of 'This' it should be 'This-ing'. In which case, wouldnt Stillness's pondering be just as much 'truthin' or 'This-ing' as anything else? Can you put the pieces together for me please? You've got to work for that big old cup of coffee this morning hehe. |
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