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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2013 14:40:25 GMT -5
good luck with letting that habit go -- I've read that nicotine is worse than heroin. Methinks neither is as addictive as thinking. I'm a total think-junkie. Breaking that habit is one of my aspirations, come to think of it.  The saxophone thing is more akin to what you were saying. Clearing out addiction to thinking, various beliefs and delusions and whatever else obscures being completely plugged into what is happening. Being a perfectly played instrument happens when completely plugged in. No one's trying to play it, actually. Just ____. At least that's what I imagine. And I can see how that might mean unintentional insults from time to time too. Jesus did his whole overturning money changer tables rampage -- I'm sure the dudes working those tables weren't feeling a whole lot of loving kindness at the moment. Also there is the iconic angry buddha. Apparently awakened ones let the fury fly at appropriate moments. I'd have to agree with you about the thinking-habit. I've begun to get very suspicious of most of my thoughts, though. Not practical thoughts of course - just those 'commentary' type thoughts. How true are they really? And, more to the point, how useful are they? How many times has the thought about a problem actually been the problem. Without the thought, where is the problem? And that I think speaks some to Adyashanti's concept of 'pure meditation.' The best approach I've found, personally, is sort of an 'oh look at that thinking going on.' It's a step away from engaging with the thoughts. The thinking then recedes and the bodily sensations become more prominent again. This type of attitude is pretty fleeting, however. Unsustainable. It makes me think I should schedule some actual sitting time in addition to just doing it randomly throughout the day. That's cool. I'm not aware of underlying assumptions (I mean that in the sense that "I'm not aware" not that there are no assumptions). Thinking just seems to happen like everything else. Not quite sure how to go about shedding light on those assumptions. I'm in the same boat -- not real clear yet. I like the emphasis on getting clarity on it. It's sort of like becoming clear with a question. I take some time at night to keep this aspiration question in my mind. Staying still but with the question. Hopefully something clear will pop up in this situation. |
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Post by quinn on Jan 9, 2013 21:00:20 GMT -5
The best approach I've found, personally, is sort of an 'oh look at that thinking going on.' It's a step away from engaging with the thoughts. The thinking then recedes and the bodily sensations become more prominent again. This type of attitude is pretty fleeting, however. Unsustainable. It makes me think I should schedule some actual sitting time in addition to just doing it randomly throughout the day. Yeah, it might be unsustainable, but I think even in short bouts it has some magic. Some of that 'dismantling' magic - where things start unraveling on their own after awhile. I've pretty much given up on scheduling sitting time. Luckily, I have a sitting group I go to twice a week. In between....it's pretty loose. I don't know either. They show themselves to me a LOT. Not sure how or why that happens. I have a tendency to dig at things, kind of relentlessly, so maybe that's what's happening. If you keep digging at the source of a thought, beliefs and assumptions are usually there. |
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Post by quinn on Jan 10, 2013 9:39:03 GMT -5
Anybody doing the workshop on Adya's site for "The Way of Liberation"? I thought it was very powerful last night.
It took him two years to write this 51 page book. That made sense when I heard it because I find myself unable to read more than a few sentences at a time. I feel the need to sit with each one for awhile before I move on to the next.
The first of what he calls the Five Foundations is about finding out what your actual spiritual aspiration is. Or are - could be more than one, and it can change over time. You could also call it 'intention'. Or that which inspires you. Or that which you value most.
The interesting part of that is this: There is what we believe we particularly value and then there is our actions which show, or prove, what we truly value. When there is a gap between these, it needs to be noticed. Not judged, but noticed.
It's all about complete and total willingness to see what's there.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2013 11:50:24 GMT -5
You signed up? cool. apparently Liberation didn't make it on our meager budget. I'll be very interested to hear how it goes.
I asked the Clear Gate folks if they have a forum for discussion and they said nopes. It'd be nice.
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Post by silence on Jan 10, 2013 16:08:59 GMT -5
Anybody doing the workshop on Adya's site for "The Way of Liberation"? I thought it was very powerful last night. It took him two years to write this 51 page book. That made sense when I heard it because I find myself unable to read more than a few sentences at a time. I feel the need to sit with each one for awhile before I move on to the next. The first of what he calls the Five Foundations is about finding out what your actual spiritual aspiration is. Or are - could be more than one, and it can change over time. You could also call it 'intention'. Or that which inspires you. Or that which you value most. The interesting part of that is this: There is what we believe we particularly value and then there is our actions which show, or prove, what we truly value. When there is a gap between these, it needs to be noticed. Not judged, but noticed. It's all about complete and total willingness to see what's there. Becoming clear about what you're searching for or aspiring to IS incredibly important. One can only maintain the search so long as what is being searched for is vague and general. If it was to become specific, you would see quite clearly that you already possess the qualities you desire or that what you're looking for is nonsensical. The biggest hurdle to spirituality IS spirituality. Ambiguous, magical and esoteric hiding places all over the place. |
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Post by quinn on Jan 10, 2013 18:38:26 GMT -5
Becoming clear about what you're searching for or aspiring to IS incredibly important. One can only maintain the search so long as what is being searched for is vague and general. If it was to become specific, you would see quite clearly that you already possess the qualities you desire or that what you're looking for is nonsensical. The biggest hurdle to spirituality IS spirituality. Ambiguous, magical and esoteric hiding places all over the place. I don't believe Adya is referring to something in the future - some sort of goal - when he's talking about aspirations. He's talking about right now, what is the impetus, the driving force of your involvement in spirituality. "...life unfolds along the lines of what you value most." Unlike the usual emphasis of this forum, this particular book is about a "Way", a path. It's dealing in the realm of the relative (where we live our lives) to bring it into line with the absolute perspective. Sure, ultimately there is no path, everything that we aspire to is already here, we are it, yadda yadda. Most of us around here have had at least a taste of this. But we don't live solely in the absolute. Or the relative. There is an unfolding that happens over time and space - and it's both. I don't think the biggest hurdle to spirituality is spirituality. I think it's refusing to look at what's actually going on - and sometimes we do that because what's going on isn't 'non-dual' enough or something. It's gritty or stupid or judgmental or stingy or sappy, and we don't want to see that or admit to it. |
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Post by quinn on Jan 10, 2013 18:43:54 GMT -5
You signed up? cool. apparently Liberation didn't make it on our meager budget. I'll be very interested to hear how it goes. I asked the Clear Gate folks if they have a forum for discussion and they said nopes. It'd be nice. A budget that doesn't include Liberation? Pshaw. I now have room for it since cigarettes came off my budget  In a couple of days, the talk will be download-able. Maybe I can share it somehow. I'll check with them. |
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Post by silence on Jan 10, 2013 19:47:29 GMT -5
I don't think the biggest hurdle to spirituality is spirituality. I think it's refusing to look at what's actually going on - and sometimes we do that because what's going on isn't 'non-dual' enough or something. It's gritty or stupid or judgmental or stingy or sappy, and we don't want to see that or admit to it. That's actually what I meant. People will spend a very long time refusing to look at what's going on while they hide out in their ideas about spirituality and how it's somehow separate from their everyday going-on's. |
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Post by earnest on Jan 11, 2013 7:15:53 GMT -5
hey Quinn, nice to see you around and I hope you're well.
I missed signing up for the online course but got a copy of the book. I've been really enjoying the book and am finding lots of juice in his statement about ".. allowing everything to simply be in the deepest possible way". I've heard him say that before,. but seems to be sticking a bit differently.
I find it interesting to do a bit of self inquiry with that statement as well. Periodically asking "Can I allow this to simply be in the deepest possible way?" - this regular day to day reality. If there is something I'm feeling resistant to, then going further eg "what happens if I allow this efforting to simply be". All good stuff.
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Post by earnest on Jan 11, 2013 7:18:15 GMT -5
People will spend a very long time refusing to look at what's going on while they hide out in their ideas about spirituality and how it's somehow separate from their everyday going-on's. Amen to that! I was originally hoping to get away from the day-to-day stuff via being ~spiritual~ but that eventually burnt itself out thankfully (not that it doesn't sneak in through the back door sometimes  |
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Post by quinn on Jan 11, 2013 10:00:16 GMT -5
I don't think the biggest hurdle to spirituality is spirituality. I think it's refusing to look at what's actually going on - and sometimes we do that because what's going on isn't 'non-dual' enough or something. It's gritty or stupid or judgmental or stingy or sappy, and we don't want to see that or admit to it. That's actually what I meant. People will spend a very long time refusing to look at what's going on while they hide out in their ideas about spirituality and how it's somehow separate from their everyday going-on's. Ah...I had a moment while I was typing where I thought, "I don't know if I'm disagreeing with silence or agreeing" "The biggest hurdle to spirituality is spirituality" can also mean "Don't bother with the search, it's meaningless" (and apparently you didn't mean that at all). That's when I again see denial, or turning away. If there's a desire to search, then searching is what needs to happen. And to take it a step farther, what Adya's saying (in part) is that we can become more unified and clear in direction by understanding what our values and aspirations are. If I truly value peace, then I will move steadfastly towards that. Then maybe that desire will fall away to be replaced by something else. He talks about a maturing process, and an unfolding that needs to be given its space to happen. |
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Post by quinn on Jan 11, 2013 10:33:44 GMT -5
hey Quinn, nice to see you around and I hope you're well. I missed signing up for the online course but got a copy of the book. I've been really enjoying the book and am finding lots of juice in his statement about ".. allowing everything to simply be in the deepest possible way". I've heard him say that before,. but seems to be sticking a bit differently. I find it interesting to do a bit of self inquiry with that statement as well. Periodically asking "Can I allow this to simply be in the deepest possible way?" - this regular day to day reality. If there is something I'm feeling resistant to, then going further eg "what happens if I allow this efforting to simply be". All good stuff. Hi earnest - very good to see you, too! That's a strong quote you picked up on there - it speaks to me too, given that I'm going through kicking an addiction and recovering from a pretty severe illness. Today I'm having a bad reaction to the latest medicine. Combine that all together and my "Now" is pretty sucky, physically that is. Can I allow this to simply be in the deepest possible way? The logical answer is that it is what it is and whether or not I allow it deeply, it's all going to happen. But really, it's more complex than that, isn't it? Because mind is powerful and it can go through some strong gyrations in the attempt to NOT be with what's happening. Or it can spin out into future anxiety (will I always be like this?) or it can take it personally (why me?) or any number of ways to not just be with it in the deepest possible way. In last night's workshop talk, one of the callers talked about her 'aspiration' being intimacy. Kind of another way of saying what you're saying. Intimacy with what is happening right now, including the contents of mind, sensations, relationships, beingness - all of it. Closing the gap between what is and what we think is. I totally agree - good stuff. |
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Post by silence on Jan 11, 2013 14:49:13 GMT -5
Ah...I had a moment while I was typing where I thought, "I don't know if I'm disagreeing with silence or agreeing" "The biggest hurdle to spirituality is spirituality" can also mean "Don't bother with the search, it's meaningless" (and apparently you didn't mean that at all). That's when I again see denial, or turning away. If there's a desire to search, then searching is what needs to happen. Yeah, I know what you mean. Different people need to hear different things and that's really all it amounts to. If someone is very attached to the idea that their search is virtuous, incredibly important and will pay off in the future, they very well may need to hear that they are seriously wasting their time. The denial is already happening for them. They're denying their life right now. If on the other hand the person is clear that there's a search going on even when they take their "hands off" the process so to speak, then investigating what's being searched for and becoming clear about that process would be much more useful. And to take it a step farther, what Adya's saying (in part) is that we can become more unified and clear in direction by understanding what our values and aspirations are. If I truly value peace, then I will move steadfastly towards that. Then maybe that desire will fall away to be replaced by something else. He talks about a maturing process, and an unfolding that needs to be given its space to happen. Yea, I agree there's definitely a maturing process that has nothing to do with age. If this can be recognized, a lot of the energy behind trying to force realizations or extend/push away states can be relaxed a little bit. It then becomes less about trying to learn about life so you can then go apply it and more about simply living it. Human beings get themselves into absurd situations. From where I stand, becoming clear about the search and what you're searching for is purely for the purpose of dissolving the search. There's a lot of excitement and a sense of adventure and intrigue behind the spiritual search and often that's the hardest to let go of. |
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Post by quinn on Jan 12, 2013 11:16:22 GMT -5
Different people need to hear different things and that's really all it amounts to. If someone is very attached to the idea that their search is virtuous, incredibly important and will pay off in the future, they very well may need to hear that they are seriously wasting their time. The denial is already happening for them. They're denying their life right now. If on the other hand the person is clear that there's a search going on even when they take their "hands off" the process so to speak, then investigating what's being searched for and becoming clear about that process would be much more useful. I like this a lot, silence - especially "the denial is already happening". From where I stand, becoming clear about the search is purely for the purpose of becoming clear about the search. Just to pick one more sliver out of my eye. What dissolves or doesn't dissolve isn't part of the question right now. Keepin' it simple |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2013 20:37:32 GMT -5
Clarify Your Aspiration
To clarify your aspiration means knowing exactly what it is that your spiritual life aspires to, not as a future goal but in each mo¬ment. In other words, what do you value most in your life—not in the sense of moral values, but in the sense of what is most im¬portant to you. Contemplate this question. Do not assume that you know what your highest aspiration is, or even what is most important to you. Dig deep within, contemplate, and meditate on what the spiritual quest is about for you; don’t let anyone else define your aspiration for you. Look within until you find, with complete clarity, what you aspire to.
The importance of this first Foundation cannot be over-emphasized, because life unfolds along the lines of what you value most. Very few people have Truth or Reality as deep val¬ues. They may think that they value Truth, but their actions do not bear this out. Generally, most people have competing and conflicting values, which manifest as both internal and external conflict. So just because you think something is your deepest value does not mean that it actually is. By deeply contemplating and clarifying what you value and aspire to, you become more unified, clear, and certain of your direction.
As your realization and spiritual maturity deepen, you will find that some aspects of your aspiration remain steadfast while others evolve to reflect what is relevant to your current level of insight. By reflecting on and clarifying the issues relevant to your current level of understanding, you stay focused on the cutting edge of your own unfolding.
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