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Post by ernie on Sept 23, 2011 8:56:05 GMT -5
popee I hear ya. I apologize for whatever seriousness is within the post. Seriousness kinda pisses me off these days. Why, just this morning I found myself in a fit of pique and unleashed a barrage which went like this... God, who are you? Why do you remain silent before the insanity of some believers and do nothing to calm the doubts of skeptics? Why do you disguise your will as the laws of physics and conceal your designs as simply random events? Your silence unnerves me at times, and, and, this rise of Rick Perry....there's no explanation for that crap! Well, since our little conversation it's been steadily raining, my clubs are in the basement, and Fall is drawing near. Rather churlish on Its part, if I may be so bold to say so. ;D Hahaha... uncontainable giggles! ;D Looks like there has been a 'stirring' of sorts with regard to the "disguising one's will as the laws of physics" remark. LoL! www.mnn.com/green-tech/research-innovations/stories/neutrino-particles-may-be-faster-than-the-speed-of-lightI'd also have to say Rick Perry was somewhat discombobulated during last nights debate, too. HaHa ;D Is that the sun?  Have a good one! |
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Post by zendancer on Sept 23, 2011 9:01:45 GMT -5
"However, the universe doesn't care much for these things; it's too busy rotating." Would it be rotating, if it wasn't being observed rotating? In the Zen tradition a standard response to this kind of question would be, "Go drink tea." LOL. I'm not much of a tea drinker, so I usually suggest coffee instead. Either way, the point is to "do something and stop reflecting." Don't let the sneaky little mind hoodwink you into its games. Get out of your head and focus on what is always here and now. There is a big difference between seeing and distinguishing. The eyes see, but the mind distinguishes (imagines). If someone is looking at what can be imagined as "a tree," one can either see isness or imagine that one is seeing a tree. Isness is real; "a tree" is imaginary. Now, let's go have a cup of coffee, which isn't a cup of coffee, and let those rotating universes rotate however they wish. Ha ha. |
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Post by ernie on Sept 23, 2011 9:12:47 GMT -5
When their mind-enlightenment is questioned the reply is invariably ''well, who is the one.....?''. I dont see neo-advaita as threatening to the existent or non-existent ego, I see it as a comfort. The ego gets to hide in a rhetoric that is very difficult to unweave and undo because the whole principle of neo-advaita is that there is nothing to unweave and undo. One of the better posts I've read here in awhile. If anyone wants a little more in-depth understanding of what andrew is pointing at, you can find it here. www.enlightened-spirituality.org/neo-advaita.htmlAnything we draw our attention to will bring us into the present moment, giving us the experience of presence. Being present is enough to bestow calm and a subtle feeling of safety, love, and joy. We often miss this in our own lives, because as soon as we have a thought or sensation, we start to evaluate and analyze it. When we do so the present disappears, and takes presence with it. I am simple. peace |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2011 9:17:32 GMT -5
beat me to this post -- saw it this morn as well. Love it when stuff like this happens. oops, there goes another paradigm. the neutrino just shot through a whole bunch of story. but there will be much discussing and formulizing. |
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Post by ernie on Sept 23, 2011 9:20:53 GMT -5
beat me to this post -- saw it this morn as well. Love it when stuff like this happens. oops, there goes another paradigm. the neutrino just shot through a whole bunch of story. but there will be much discussing and formulizing. I do, too, max. We'll never put reality in a tidy little box. It will bust out every time.  |
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Post by andrew on Sept 23, 2011 9:46:10 GMT -5
When their mind-enlightenment is questioned the reply is invariably ''well, who is the one.....?''. I dont see neo-advaita as threatening to the existent or non-existent ego, I see it as a comfort. The ego gets to hide in a rhetoric that is very difficult to unweave and undo because the whole principle of neo-advaita is that there is nothing to unweave and undo. One of the better posts I've read here in awhile. If anyone wants a little more in-depth understanding of what andrew is pointing at, you can find it here. www.enlightened-spirituality.org/neo-advaita.htmlAnything we draw our attention to will bring us into the present moment, giving us the experience of presence. Being present is enough to bestow calm and a subtle feeling of safety, love, and joy. We often miss this in our own lives, because as soon as we have a thought or sensation, we start to evaluate and analyze it. When we do so the present disappears, and takes presence with it. I am simple. peace That was a very interesting article. When I first encountered the neo-advaita purists I asked myself several times whether I was just bitter because I had done the d**n work, it was d**n hard, and I had suffered! What I noticed though is that they often belittled in their messages. There was very little sense of open heartedness, lightness, communion and compassion. Im wary of suggesting that enlightenment 'looks' a certain way (and I dont think I particularly see myself as enlightened, though perhaps I see myself as more enlightened than I used to be) but in the end, if there aint no compassion or sense of openness/lightness, then Im likely to question whats happening. Oh, bearing in mind I know a couple of the fellas on this forum from a previous forum, I just want to be clear that Im not talking about them when Im talking about the purists. I wouldnt have followed them here if it was them hehe. |
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Post by zendancer on Sept 23, 2011 9:52:07 GMT -5
Carol often gets irritated that I come to this website rather than doing other things that she thinks I ought to be doing. Ha ha. I tell her that this is comedy central, and we have the best cast of characters that anyone could imagine. What a show! I don't know about anybody else, but to me this forum offers more fun than even a Republican debate, and that's saying a helluva lot!
I've got TRF constantly yanking on my leg, Mr. T. telling me that I'm a mindless dumba** (which I happily acknowledge that I am), E. telling us about his squirrel satsangs, Andrew who keeps a loving heart no matter how many insults are thrown his way, Porto constantly injecting his wry humor, SomeNothing dropping in every few months to add some international laughs, Acewall visiting from another planet, Question constantly doing what his name requires him to do, JasonL lobbing hand grenades over the fence every once in a while and then disappearing back into his cave, Enda living in paradise but popping in for an occasional clarification, Mamza getting frustrated at all the cobwebs that keep blocking his view, Vacant and Unveilable who have numerous insights but often start second-guessing themselves as they toss away more and more chunks of mind, numerous ladies who are very clear but have been lurking and not posting much lately, 1HC laughing all the time, and a whole host of other fantastic manifestations of oneness. Who could ask for anything more?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2011 9:57:11 GMT -5
beat me to this post -- saw it this morn as well. Love it when stuff like this happens. oops, there goes another paradigm. the neutrino just shot through a whole bunch of story. but there will be much discussing and formulizing. I do, too, max. We'll never put reality in a tidy little box. It will bust out every time. and i don't mean to be snarky about this -- it's all beautiful. this CERN was built (and that's a huge story in itself) so that just such box-busting events like this would happen. it really points to the science community trying to get the story as right as possible -- no matter how ultimately futile that particular project will be. poetry in motion. |
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Post by ernie on Sept 23, 2011 9:57:15 GMT -5
One of the better posts I've read here in awhile. If anyone wants a little more in-depth understanding of what andrew is pointing at, you can find it here. www.enlightened-spirituality.org/neo-advaita.htmlAnything we draw our attention to will bring us into the present moment, giving us the experience of presence. Being present is enough to bestow calm and a subtle feeling of safety, love, and joy. We often miss this in our own lives, because as soon as we have a thought or sensation, we start to evaluate and analyze it. When we do so the present disappears, and takes presence with it. I am simple. peace That was a very interesting article. When I first encountered the neo-advaita purists I asked myself several times whether I was just bitter because I had done the d**n work, it was d**n hard, and I had suffered! What I noticed though is that they often belittled in their messages. There was very little sense of open heartedness, lightness, communion and compassion. Im wary of suggesting that enlightenment 'looks' a certain way (and I dont think I particularly see myself as enlightened, though perhaps I see myself as more enlightened than I used to be) but in the end, if there aint no compassion or sense of openness/lightness, then Im likely to question whats happening. amen |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2011 10:02:55 GMT -5
Carol often gets irritated that I come to this website rather than doing other things that she thinks I ought to be doing. Ha ha. I get those looks all the time too -- but i'm not at the Ha ha stage. It's nice to hear Carol gets irritated, for some reason. |
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Post by andrew on Sept 23, 2011 10:13:02 GMT -5
Carol often gets irritated that I come to this website rather than doing other things that she thinks I ought to be doing. Ha ha. I tell her that this is comedy central, and we have the best cast of characters that anyone could imagine. What a show! I don't know about anybody else, but to me this forum offers more fun than even a Republican debate, and that's saying a helluva lot! I've got TRF constantly yanking on my leg, Mr. T. telling me that I'm a mindless dumba** (which I happily acknowledge that I am), E. telling us about his squirrel satsangs, Andrew who keeps a loving heart no matter how many insults are thrown his way, Porto constantly injecting his wry humor, SomeNothing dropping in every few months to add some international laughs, Acewall visiting from another planet, Question constantly doing what his name requires him to do, JasonL lobbing hand grenades over the fence every once in a while and then disappearing back into his cave, Enda living in paradise but popping in for an occasional clarification, Mamza getting frustrated at all the cobwebs that keep blocking his view, Vacant and Unveilable who have numerous insights but often start second-guessing themselves as they toss away more and more chunks of mind, numerous ladies who are very clear but have been lurking and not posting much lately, 1HC laughing all the time, and a whole host of other fantastic manifestations of oneness. Who could ask for anything more? My wife gets irritable with me too sometimes. Sometimes I drift away from internet forums but when I return to them my wife usually breathes a sigh of relief! She is into all this stuff too but her forum tends to be facebook. I work at a loving heart. Maybe the day will come when it no longer takes any work, but I do the work now for the peace that comes with it now. I think in its own way, its perhaps the simplest practice of them all. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2011 10:41:10 GMT -5
That was a very interesting article. When I first encountered the neo-advaita purists I asked myself several times whether I was just bitter because I had done the d**n work, it was d**n hard, and I had suffered! What I noticed though is that they often belittled in their messages. There was very little sense of open heartedness, lightness, communion and compassion. Im wary of suggesting that enlightenment 'looks' a certain way (and I dont think I particularly see myself as enlightened, though perhaps I see myself as more enlightened than I used to be) but in the end, if there aint no compassion or sense of openness/lightness, then Im likely to question whats happening. amen I don't disagree with much here. Especially the humor, lightness and compassion bits. But on the compassion front, I think there's a sort of quick amount of characterization going on about "RT" and "neo-advaita." They're ultimately artificial categories and the members of the sets defined by those characterizations actually represent a wide wide range of perspectives; so wide, in fact, as to bust the parameters of the initial characterization. I haven't read the whole neo-advaita piece but it starts off characterizing neo-advaita labelled people as having a main teaching which is ""Call off the search, You are already the Self, no need to seek for It, and no need to make any efforts or engage in any practices." While I've heard that accusation many times, I've yet to hear one of the people categorized in such a way say such a thing without context and nuance and such. Also, some of the best folks in this category, IMHO (an opinion which is very humble), do not and have not asked for money in any way. On the RT front. It's easy to laugh at them. I've been through that ringer.. But I know from first hand experience that that grouping holds within it much disagreement and different points of view. In the beginning the term 'enlightened' was used a lot, for example, but now is not. Though one may still claim it another may not. One may be uber assertive/confident in the way you mention, and another not at all. There is a loud and vocal 'vanguard' lqtm, and many others just having a cupajoe. I like ZD's summation about the no-self thing missing the whole picture. |
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Post by enigma on Sept 23, 2011 11:14:58 GMT -5
All well and good zendancer, but when you have the incomprehensible story of matter to entertain you, why not? Waves, or particles? It's interesting stuff. Energy, potential energy, being here, and there, at the same time, good golly man, somebody BIG really knows their math and science. OK, think I'll go brew some Columbian Supremo lol In a way, math and science are made up descriptions of what appears to be happening. To flip it around and suggest God must really know his math and science is kinda funny. ;D |
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Post by enigma on Sept 23, 2011 11:26:37 GMT -5
Carol often gets irritated that I come to this website rather than doing other things that she thinks I ought to be doing. Ha ha. I tell her that this is comedy central, and we have the best cast of characters that anyone could imagine. What a show! I don't know about anybody else, but to me this forum offers more fun than even a Republican debate, and that's saying a helluva lot! I've got TRF constantly yanking on my leg, Mr. T. telling me that I'm a mindless dumba** (which I happily acknowledge that I am), E. telling us about his squirrel satsangs, Andrew who keeps a loving heart no matter how many insults are thrown his way, Porto constantly injecting his wry humor, SomeNothing dropping in every few months to add some international laughs, Acewall visiting from another planet, Question constantly doing what his name requires him to do, JasonL lobbing hand grenades over the fence every once in a while and then disappearing back into his cave, Enda living in paradise but popping in for an occasional clarification, Mamza getting frustrated at all the cobwebs that keep blocking his view, Vacant and Unveilable who have numerous insights but often start second-guessing themselves as they toss away more and more chunks of mind, numerous ladies who are very clear but have been lurking and not posting much lately, 1HC laughing all the time, and a whole host of other fantastic manifestations of oneness. Who could ask for anything more? HA! That's really funny cause it's sooooo true! Marie is always saying something like 'I'll take care of this. You go play on the forums." It's one of an infinite number of reasons I love her, and I don't even need a reason! ;D |
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Post by andrew on Sept 23, 2011 11:31:01 GMT -5
I don't disagree with much here. Especially the humor, lightness and compassion bits. But on the compassion front, I think there's a sort of quick amount of characterization going on about "RT" and "neo-advaita." They're ultimately artificial categories and the members of the sets defined by those characterizations actually represent a wide wide range of perspectives; so wide, in fact, as to bust the parameters of the initial characterization. I haven't read the whole neo-advaita piece but it starts off characterizing neo-advaita labelled people as having a main teaching which is ""Call off the search, You are already the Self, no need to seek for It, and no need to make any efforts or engage in any practices." While I've heard that accusation many times, I've yet to hear one of the people categorized in such a way say such a thing without context and nuance and such. Also, some of the best folks in this category, IMHO (an opinion which is very humble), do not and have not asked for money in any way. On the RT front. It's easy to laugh at them. I've been through that ringer.. But I know from first hand experience that that grouping holds within it much disagreement and different points of view. In the beginning the term 'enlightened' was used a lot, for example, but now is not. Though one may still claim it another may not. One may be uber assertive/confident in the way you mention, and another not at all. There is a loud and vocal 'vanguard' lqtm, and many others just having a cupajoe. I like ZD's summation about the no-self thing missing the whole picture. I also agree with that summation based on what Ive seen and who Ive spoken to from there. I dont think I would particularly question the enlightenment of the neo-advaita teachers that I have come across and which are often spoken of, I just havent tended to resonate with those who I have met who are a 'product' of their teachings, and I think its down to the approach itself. I dont doubt that a seemingly instant and work-less enlightenment can happen (of the sort that Eckhart Tolle experienced), but I kind of think that once the goal of enlightenment/realization etc has been consciously set upon, the chance of a work-less enlightenment is less because the knowledge and understanding of a path in itself gets in the way. The neo-advaita understanding that the path is an illusion and that there is no-one to be enlightened becomes just more knowledge (and just another path) getting in the way of enlightenment. Im not sure what my point is. Hmmm. I guess what Im saying is that I think that if enlightenment/realization is the goal (as it would be for anyone attending a Tony Parson's seminar) some kind of work has to be done. And I think the work is in releasing the need for understanding and knowledge itself. |
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